What would people outside an apartment have to say to a swat team about to enter an apartment? Boo?
Since more children and people have been killed by Israel than in the terrorist attack, should they stop?
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Bob
Well-Known Member
Thank you for responding, even if in a confused way.
Your position is almost clear: all Israelis deserve annihilation because either (a) the Jewish people have turned from God, or (b) they haven’t embraced Jesus as their savior, or (c) they aren’t Muslims (Hamas position). Which is it?
Peace and Blessings.
No. They deserve as much as Gazans. But thankfully God does not give us what we deserve when we accept Him. God plans for all Israel to be saved one day. That does not mean in their present condition. That will be when they go through trials and finally believe. So if your question is whether Israel deserves the judgments and trials that are to come, that seems insulting to God. He chastens us for our benefit. His judgments are to be desired more than fine gold. We are not special by birth but by belief. God chose a nation to reach the world and send His Messiah through. When He came, they rejected and killed Him. So in their present unbelieving state they are not brought to that land and protected by God as they one day will be. What you have is people moving to part of the promised land (as you know the actual lands promised are far bigger) and acting as if God brought them back already, with no need for Jesus. No man sneaks around the back wall and climbs over to get into heaven (or in this case His promises to be His people protected and restored and ruled by Him), There is only one way. One door.
The Arabs make sure that those prison camps exist? Is that by not wanting to be flooded with all the people in them? So if they won't take them, then they are responsible for it all? That seems like blaming others for how you treat people. The reason they are in the area is because they were forced out of their homes and lands. Not by the 'Arabs'. So are you saying that
'Israel was right to displace them, make them refugees, and take their homes and farms and lands. Israel is also loving and fair to keep them in poverty and behind barbed wire since they can't leave the area'?
No this is not what I'm saying.
When Isreal declared statehood, their Arab neighbors declared war, to push them all into the sea. And they told mostly Jordanian and some Egyptian and others, those who had come it to help work Israel's growing agriculture, to get out of the way, and after they destroyed the Israelis, they could all have their lands and homes and stuff.
And a great many of them who cheered Israel's destruction gathered into newly built camps in Gaza, Samaria, and South Lebanon. They moved there as a temporary home while the Arabs killed all the Jews, waiting til they were all dead, when they would all move back, this time to possess everything that was conquered in the war. But the Arabs lost the war.
So now what? What about all these people stuck in the camps?
What about the Arab nations who told them to go there? Would they take them? No. Could the move back to their homes, after championing Israel's destruction?
"Stay there, we'll try again when we can . . ."
But the Arab nations' fortunes never changed, God enabled Israel to win every war. And the camps, they had babies, and generations have now lived and grown up as the camps turned into cities, and the cities grew.
Yasser Arafat popularized the term "Palestinians", and started revising the history. NO, these weren't enemies of Israel who lost their gambit to steal the country from the Jews, they were "displaced people", refugees from Israel. And much of the world now seems to believe that.
Arafat popularized terrorism also, and began building a war machine funded by the exploitation of the people on who's behalf he purportedly worked. And that's what they've done ever since. Hezbollah, the PLO, Fatah, Hamas, they have all done the same things.
They cry, Humanitarian Disaster, give us money!! And the world ponies up, showering them with millions and millions of dollars, year after year, decade after decade, and why are they not improved?
Because Hamas in Gaza is the Gazan government. Aid goes through Hamas. And Hamas keeps whatever they want to fund their war against Israel. It's been like this a long time.
Children are taught in elementary school that Israel is the hated oppressor, who shut them into the camps, and keeps them there, but it is their own government who is committed not to the wellbeing of their people, but to the destruction of Israel. And the price the people pay is horrible! What do you do when you are taught from childhood to hate and kill?
The very best thing Israel could do for the people of Gaza would be completely remove Hamas from having an part in Gaza, and let the people choose leaders who will be for them.
The Arabs make sure those camps continue to exist because it's part of their Big Lie, these are displaced people with a "right of return", that is, "now that we've created these terrorist populations from those whom we put there, we're going to blame you, insist you let them back in, and then we can flood your population with terrorists."
They are political pawns, exploited and destroyed for political ends, that is, the destruction of Isreal as a Jewish nation.
We really need to know the history so we can understand how to interpret what we are seeing today.
Israel did not put them in the camps. They did that while they waited for their friends to kill the Israelis, and then after the Israelis were all dead, they could come back and have their possessions. OOPS!
Much love!
ScottA
Well-Known Member
This is the Big Lie of the "Palestinians". Actually, Palestine was renamed from Israel by the Romans. Everyone who lived there was known as Palestinians, including Jews, Arabs, Egyptians, Beduoins, others. There was no "Ethnic Palestinian" people group, it was the name given to a land when it was conquered by Rome.
Just as most of the Middle East was given to the Arabs after the defeat of the Ottoman Califate, so was Israel given to the Jews. Now the Arabs are insisting that Israel was theirs and the Jews stole it from them. That's Big Lie.
What is the truth?
God gave Israel to Israel. Politically, what gives the Jews the right? The Balfour Declaration. But in reality? God gave them that land, and let no one who values their life try to take it from them.
Much love
ScottA
Well-Known Member
I consider that all to be as true as any explanation...and yet it is lacking just where it all actually began--before and following World War II, to form the modern state of Israel, so called.
There is a huge chunk of history hidden there that is on par with the actual fate of Hitler or even Lincoln and JFK. And yet, it is that very chapter in history that is now being waged--just as it was planned.
If one really wants to know the truth behind all these current events, I recommend doing research on the Khazarian Mafia.
How would war not come about when you move in and take people's lands? In other words they were not welcome, but took it by force.
So when even more people were brought in to aid and abet the taking of the lands, they were not welcome either. Is that any surprise? If someone did not come in and force tens of thousands of people out, none of that would be an issue. So are you saying it is OK to move on in somewhere and go ahead and push folks out, take their lands and then if anyone objects call them evil?
Where else were they supposed to go, regardless if whether they hoped that the people who took their houses and land would be driven out again? Were they supposed to cheer for the ones who displaced them forcefully?
So surrounding nations knew they were not able to absorb a population that someone drove out and were now refugees. It seems like you are saying those nations suggested that the massive number of refugees move to a part of the land temporarily, in hopes that what they considered justice would be done. Is that evil?
So what else could the refugees do, keep walking round and round Israel? I suspect that might have led to problems as well. No matter what they did.
No. God has nothing to do with it. Yes Israel won some wars. The US and Britain and foreign funding may have had something to do with that?
So are you saying that all the people in the west bank and Gaza were actually foreign armies that failed and their countries disowned them and would not take them back home? Be clear.
So the moral of that story, is that they should not try to fight back? Israel can have a military but not those people?
Maybe when in prison it is harder to have goods distributed as fairly as they should be? You depend on the guards dishing it out etc? Rather than condemn them for being in that condition, Israel should see what they can do to set His people free and bring down those walls?
As mentioned above the prison they are in seems to make any real progress for the people impossible. Rather than blame the guards maybe it would be better to close the prison?
One way to disprove that. Israel can allow them to come out and be equal and make some restitution etc etc. Then the kids can see that Israel is not the oppressor that keeps them having to be imprisoned. Simple.
That seems unlikely. Hamas grew because of a real problem situation. Firing one set of prison guards, so to speak would do nothing because another set would have to be hired. In addition to remove Hamas the way Israel is doing it now means mass death of Gazans.
So you claim that Egypt and Jordan and etc all conspire to keep camps around and have created the terrorists? By seeking to have them set free that is some evil thing, and you prefer that the populations be sent to their countries rather than where many of them originated?
In other words if they were to have their lands back, that is destroying Israel. Who says that Israel today has to be a Jewish nation exactly?? How about it be a nation of who actually lives there, including the ones that had their lands taken? You seem to be saying that the people would be so sore with having been robbed of their lands and homes, that if they were to come back and mingle, they would seek retribution? So, what is the answer to that one? Apparently Israel thinks that a right to come to live in Israel for Jews all over the world is the answer, rather than a right to return home for those who actually lived there before?
What else could they have done? You think they actually should have went...where?
Let's go back a little further, shall we? Into the 1800's when very few people lived there, because what wasn't arid desert was malaria ridden swamps. Jews began to move there, and to plant trees, to restore the land.
You'll need to research this yourself, I don't expect you to hear it from me.
Much love!
Not sure I care what we want to call it. What if we just call it 'Central Middle East' or some such? The thing is that people were living in that land. How is it that you think they had no rights to their homes and lands exactly?
So what, I am not racist and don't care who it was. They still lived there.
You seem to suggest that because one empire gave lands to some people, that you have a right to go in today and kick them all out and take the lands?
No. The fact it was their home means something.
No, He gave it to them and kicked them out and gave it to them etc. The key being HE did either. The time when we are told HE will give them those lands is in the future after they accept Jesus, and not any time before. They don't get to take people's lands in the meantime claiming God told them to. It was not God that made them do it!
No, as I just pointed out. He will only bring them back after they are saved. So you are left with the Balfour declaration.
"The opening words of the declaration represented the first public expression of support for Zionism by a major political power. The term "national home" had no precedent in international law, and was intentionally vague as to whether a Jewish state was contemplated. The intended boundaries of Palestine were not specified, and the British government later confirmed that the words "in Palestine" meant that the Jewish national home was not intended to cover all of Palestine. The second half of the declaration was added to satisfy opponents of the policy, who had claimed that it would otherwise prejudice the position of the local population of Palestine and encourage antisemitism worldwide by "stamping the Jews as strangers in their native lands". The declaration called for safeguarding the civil and religious rights for the Palestinian Arabs, who composed the vast majority of the local population, and also the rights and political status of the Jewish communities in other countries outside of Palestine. The British government acknowledged in 1939 that the local population's views should have been taken into account, and recognised in 2017 that the declaration should have called for the protection of the Palestinian Arabs' political rights." wiki
Does that sound like 'Go in and take the whole thing kick them all out, and take all their homes and lands' to you? No.
It sounds more like the idea was to have a Jewish enclave of sorts inside that territory somewhere.
Having a small population does not mean they were fair game. Even if there was some sickness around. The issue in a home invasion would not be whether the invaders then fixed up the kitchen or not.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
???
No, you aren't understanding what I'm telling you. There was a land in the Middle east that pretty much no one cared about. It was a Jewish homeland, but now, after so much abuse, the land was virtually ruined. But even so, some Jews began to want to go there. There was plenty of room. I think some put estimates of a total population of about 6,000. No one took anything from anyone, there was plenty of land, only, it was desert and swamp.
So they started to reclaim the land, and they did, bit by bit. No one had to leave. All were considered Palestinians, because they all lived in Palestine.
As more and more land was reclaimed, their agriculture grew, and more Jordanians and Egyptians came in to work the crops. And everyone was welcome, no one had to leave, no one was stealing anything from anyone.
The WW2, and mass Aliyah, and the formation of the Jewish State, Israel. And when they declared statehood, everyone was welcome, no one was stealing anything from anyone. (I don't mean this absolutely, but in the way we are talking)
There are Arabs even now participating in Israel's government in a variety of roles, including their parliament.
But then came the Arab wars of aggression, the "get out of the way" into the camps, hopefully I'm presenting a more full picture of what happened.
Much love!
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Well said.
There is more that gives them the right, like the 6-day war. Funny how Islamists only recognize the Right of Conquest when they are doing the conquoring. When they get conquored ...
They were not kicked out. The moved into camps temporarily, volutarily, at the Arab's request. This was done so that they would not be hurt while the Arabs pursued their objective, the death of every Jew.
The idea was, after the Arabs killed all the Jews, they would come back out, and steal everything from all the dead Jews. But it didn't work, and now they lie about it, and many believe the Lie.
"I'll just leave my house while my friends go through the area killing everyone I don't like. Then when it's over, not only will I return to my house, but I'll ransack all my dead neighbor's houses, and take down the backyard fence, I'll just add their yard to mine, for a bigger garden! Paid for by their stuff!"
"What???? My friends failed? Oh No!! Now what am I supposed to do??" "Just stay put for now, we're working on it . . ."
Much love!
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