The tyranny of doctrinal unity - "Join or die."

[Pierac]

You need to know the difference of what is Doctrine... and what is the Traditions of men...

You need to dig deep in Greek and Hebrew because your Bible is simply a translation... Not God's word to you...

Let me explain.... Michelangelo made a sculpture of moses based on his bible... and it was wrong...



You see Michelangelo put horns on Moses... Because his bible told him Moses had horns... His bible was wrong...

Medieval artwork sometimes portrays Moses with horns. This depiction derives from Jerome’s mistranslation of verses in Exodus 34. Verse 29: “he knew not that his face was horned from the conversation of the Lord.” Verse 30: “And Aaron and the children of Israel seeing the face of Moses horned, were afraid to come near.” Verse 35: “And they saw that the face of Moses when he came our was horned.” Rather than being “horned” Moses face “shone,” as in the Old Latin and the Septuagint.


Sometimes this concept of agency has caused the translators of our Bible difficulties. The Hebrew word for “God”(elohim) has a wide range of meanings. Depending on context, it can mean the Supreme Deity, or “a god” or “gods” or even “angels” or human “judges.” This difficulty is reflected in verses like Exodus 21:6

Let me show how this can be the same in our modern Translations....

The KJV reads… “Then his master shall bring him unto the judges;”

The NIV reads… “then his master must take him before the judges.”

But

The NASB reads… “then his master shall bring him to God”

So too the RSV… “then his master shall bring him to God”

Clearly, because the judges of Israel represented God as His agents, they are called “God,” elohim. As the slave gave his vow before these representatives of God, he was in fact making a binding vow before Jehovah. The agents were as God.

Don't get me started on the N.T.


Paul

 

[St. SteVen]

Then what doctrine would you say is of first importance?
What is of secondary importance?
What is of third importance?
What is of no importance?

This is for the individual to decide.
Another reason there is no consensus.

Creeds and denominational doctrines are a helpful place to start.

No one is saved by doctrine. IMHO

Do we all have to accept the assumption of Mary, the physical body of God, that Jesus is merely a God, that only true Christians speak in tounges etc etc etc

No. Again, the individual should decide.

How do you decide what is true Christian doctrine?

This is where we get off track. Deciding what is true is labeling all else false.

Doctrine (dogma) is a man-made attempt to codify what the Bible says.
It is not inspired.

 

[St. SteVen]

You see Michelangelo put horns on Moses... Because his bible told him Moses had horns... His bible was wrong...

How did you arrive at that conclusion? Simply because it doesn't fit your preconception?

 

[St. SteVen]

Don't get me started on the N.T.

Start a topic!

 

[Patrick1966]

As Paul wrote to the philippians
Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather in humility value others above yourself, not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of others.

Very well said.

 

[Pierac]

How did you arrive at that conclusion? Simply because it doesn't fit your preconception?

So your saying... Moses Grew horns....

Really... Think about it...

 

[Pierac]

How did you arrive at that conclusion? Simply because it doesn't fit your preconception?

Because At that time... there was only the Latin Vulgate...

Really..... Do you really think Michelangelo had a copy of the KJV.... or any other Bible that corrected that mistake?

 

[Windmill Charge]

This is for the individual to decide.
Another reason there is no consensus.

Creeds and denominational doctrines are a helpful place to start.

No one is saved by doctrine. IMHO

No. Again, the individual should decide.

This is where we get off track. Deciding what is true is labeling all else false.

Doctrine (dogma) is a man-made attempt to codify what the Bible says.
It is not inspired.

If it is up to the individual to decide there can never be doctrinal unity and even Spiritual unity will be difficult as some will stress of first importance what other classify as unimportant or not Christian.

I deliberately quoted some non christian doctrines and you said it is for the individual to decide.
To a point each person does that based on how well they have been taught. That teaching is down to each church.
Christians need to be educated, readers and thinkers. They don't need to have degrees etc but they do need to be willing to learn and churches/pastors etc to teach and educate, surmons should contain spiritual meat as well as milk.

 

[Pierac]

You still miss the point... ALL medeival art shows Moses with horns... due to our OT Bible

Our OT Bible messed up... So time to admit it and move on with the the truth!!!

 

[Pierac]

If it is up to the individual to decide there can never be doctrinal unity and even Spiritual unity will be difficult as some will stress of first importance what other classify as unimportant or not Christian.

I deliberately quoted some non christian doctrines and you said it is for the individual to decide.
To a point each person does that based on how well they have been taught. That teaching is down to each church.
Christians need to be educated, readers and thinkers. They don't need to have degrees etc but they do need to be willing to learn and churches/pastors etc to teach and educate, surmons should contain spiritual meat as well as milk.

So... You saying Moses never Had Horns made from false docterine... Yet, in our art and sculpures... through out history.... Teaches differently...

You are a follower of Men... Not History!!!
Paul

 

[BeyondET]

Because At that time... there was only the Latin Vulgate...

Really.... How freaking Stupid could you be,,,, to make such a comment.... Do you really think Michelangelo had a copy of the KJV.... or any other Bible that corrected that mistake? Really... How do you even get to post here St SteVen...being so Confused!! What a dip ... No.... we don't to hear about your Flat Earth believes.... Either.... flat Earther....!

With all that unnecessary language, it appears you are horned.

 

[Windmill Charge]

You saying Moses never Had Horns made from false docterine... Yet, in our art and sculpures... through out history.... Teaches differently...

You are a follower of Men... Not History!!!
Paul

What Moses taught he got from God, if you think he taught false doctrine you are criticising what God instructed Moses to do and record.

 

[St. SteVen]

Moses with horns. I had heard of that. Not sure what the story behind it is.
Several examples of statues of Moses with horns.

 

[MatthewG]

No, that is crazy.

 

[Windmill Charge]

Google is your friend.
A quick search for horned moses found:-

The Horns of Moses

Why does Michelangelo's sculpture of Moses in the Church of St. Peter-in-Chains depict Moses with horns on his head?

www.biblicalarchaeology.org

An authorities explanation of a misstranslation.

 

[Pierac]

With all that unnecessary language, it appears you are horned.

Spoken Just like a true liberal.... Divert from the truth.... because your too Lazy to do any research.... What does my language have to do with the truth?

Seems We have a spiritual Karen on this forum??

 

[Pierac]

Google is your friend.
A quick search for horned moses found:-

The Horns of Moses

Why does Michelangelo's sculpture of Moses in the Church of St. Peter-in-Chains depict Moses with horns on his head?

www.biblicalarchaeology.org

An authorities explanation of a misstranslation.

Just like I Posted.... Thank's for doing the research no one else felt the need to do... Followers of men do not research what they are told.... They just follow....

 

[St. SteVen]

Followers of men do not research what they are told.... They just follow....

So true.

If our interpretation of scripture sidesteps common sense, did we get it right?

We've all heard the vacuous mantra: "God said it, I believe it, that settles it." What does this communicate parenthetically? "It doesn't need to make sense, I just need to accept it." ??? (with a shrug?) Do we really need to check our brain at the door when we go to church? There are...

www.christianityboard.com

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