Why do some people not like the idea of OSAS?

[JohnDB]

Judas....
He knew beyond all shadow of a doubt that Jesus was the Messiah and Son of God.

He had performed miracles himself in Jesus's name. He watched Jesus walk on water. Seen Lazarus come back from the dead.
But Judas wasn't exactly saved.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes sirree bob. I certainly hope you at least shudder when practice your OSAS. Okidoke. :)

James 2:18But someone will say, “You have faith and I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19You believe that God is one. Good for you! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20O foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is worthless?h 21Was not our father Abraham justified by what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith was working with his actions, and his faith was perfected by what he did. 23And the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”i and he was called a friend of God.j 24As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds aYes Sirree bob,

I certainly hope you at least shudder when you practice your NOSAS

Romans 4:
4 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

How much debt have you incurred with all your works?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Steven, it is not OSAS vs. eternal in-security as you wish to frame it. It is OSAS vs the bible especially all the verses that were discarded as they did not conform with OSAS. Commanding the Deity's Grace because of the creature's faith. Placing his seat higher than the Most High.

In the end,

its all faith vs works..

 

[Mikey-for-sure]

That line of reasoning is preposterous.
If you reject eternal security, are you not left with eternal in-security?
Is there another option that I am not aware of? Please inform us. Thanks.

We cannot, by an act of our own will, undo what only God could do in the first place.

You don't believe in the existence of free will. As a result, you are a creature of a lesser dimension unable to see a higher plane of understanding. That dimension is free will. With the analogy of flatland, the only way to God's dimension is if divine hands raises up your entire checkerboard existence as you have no legs nor eyes or ears(no capacity to make a truthstatement). You have mouths so you spout the flatland doctrine born-again (in flatland as in heaven). So when we of the higher dimension of freewill who have eyes and legs, we can see the stairs to go up. But being barred to ascend by the legs of our freewill, we are told walk the walk so that God may find pleasing then we may be permitted to ascend. Faith is a deliberate act without empirical data to justify your actions. If you have no legs to act you cannot have faith from the submission of freewill, you can only understand divine hands are promised to you.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You don't believe in the existence of free will. As a result, you are a creature of a lesser dimension unable to see a higher plane of understanding. That dimension is free will. With the analogy of flatland, the only way to God's dimension is if divine hands raises up your entire checkerboard existence as you have no legs nor eyes or ears(no capacity to make a truthstatement). You have mouths so you spout the flatland doctrine born-again (in flatland as in heaven). So when we of the higher dimension of freewill who have eyes and legs, we can see the stairs to go up. But being barred to ascend by the legs of our freewill, we are told walk the walk so that God may find pleasing then we may be permitted to ascend. Faith is a deliberate act without empirical data to justify your actions. If you have no legs to act you cannot have faith from the submission of freewill, you can only understand divine hands are promised to you.

we have free will

No child Born of God having experienced his unlimited love would by his free will chose to repent back to what he was before.

 

[atpollard]

we have free will

No child Born of God having experienced his unlimited love would by his free will chose to repent back to what he was before.

Are you FREE to sin?

These discussions always revolve around the definitions of terms ... which people typically do not (or cannot) define.

Paul at one point talks about people being "slaves to sin" or "slaves to righteousness". In THAT SENSE, there is no freedom.
James talks about sin beginning deep inside us and growing from a desire, to a thought to an action. In THAT SENSE, we have complete freedom.

And on and on the examples go ... "Choose" ... "Gift" ... "Follow" ... "Draw" ...

We are free to do whatever we desire. So what do we desire? What CAN a heart of stone desire? What DOES a new heart desire?
We cannot do what is contrary to our nature. A fish cannot choose to sprout wings and fly like a bird. A leopard is not free to change its spots.
However, therein lies a great mystery ... God can kill the old man and grant us a new nature! With a new nature, all of the old "bets are off" as the saying goes.

So where is truth? Probably not at one of the simplistic extremes, but somewhere in the infinite complexity of the "mystery" [a Lutheran word] that is God's interaction with man. I can't even figure out "hypostatic union", so what hope do I really have to unravel the transformation of "foreknown - predestined - called - justified - sanctified - glorified" together with "choose - chosen" and "dead - made alive" all somehow tied together in a Father - Christ - Children of God relationship.

[boom] - mind blown. ;)
Time to rest and leave the things of God to God. :cool:

 

[Godslittleservant]

true

which is why you must make the word agree.

It can;t say one thing in one place. then contradict itself in another place.

if your reading the word and see this,, You must find out which one you are misinterpreting

This is so so true but unfortunately as I read through all these postings I see that so many of us are not doing this but rather we are trying to make it fit our view , We tend to get a thought in our mind that we think is true and ignore so many scriptures that contradict our view that we discard them and only select the ones that sound like they prove our theory right even though there is a great big whole of contradiction we need to address,

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This is so so true but unfortunately as I read through all these postings I see that so many of us are not doing this but rather we are trying to make it fit our view , We tend to get a thought in our mind that we think is true and ignore so many scriptures that contradict our view that we discard them and only select the ones that sound like they prove our theory right even though there is a great big whole of contradiction we need to address,

yes

so when Jesus says the things he said through John

then people say after jesus words someone can lose their salvation. That is exactly what they are doing. They call Jesus a liar

 

[Godslittleservant]

yes

so when Jesus says the things he said through John

then people say after jesus words someone can lose their salvation. That is exactly what they are doing. They call Jesus a liar

No it is they are reading the scriptures that say that one can fall from grace and believing them to be the true words of God just as those in John it is called take the whole council of Gods oracles and understanding the whole teaching not in part but the whole oracles of God.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No it is they are reading the scriptures that say that one can fall from grace and believing them to be the true words of God just as those in John it is called take the whole council of Gods oracles and understanding the whole teaching not in part but the whole oracles of God.

Jesus said they will never die.. many times (he did not say they may never die, he said they will)

He said they have eternal life many times (he did not say they might have, he said they have)

So falling away can NOT mean we fall from salvation. or else Jesus lied..

plain and simple

 

[Godslittleservant]

Jesus said they will never die.. many times (he did not say they may never die, he said they will)

He said they have eternal life many times (he did not say they might have, he said they have)

So falling away can NOT mean we fall from salvation. or else Jesus lied..

plain and simple

See you are taking one scripture and making it stand alone that is not how we read the bible so something must be out of context or not understood correctly

 

[atpollard]

See you are taking one scripture and making it stand alone that is not how we read the bible so something must be out of context or not understood correctly

Here you go, the "ONE SCRIPTURE" taken out of context and not understood correctly that the LIFE which Jesus gives us is ETERNAL:

[Mat 19:16, 29 NASB20] 16 And someone came to Him and said, "Teacher, what good thing shall I do so that I may obtain eternal life?" ... 29 "And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or farms on account of My name, will receive many times as much, and will inherit eternal life.​

[Mat 25:46 NASB20] 46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."​

[Mar 10:17, 30 NASB20] 17 As He was setting out on a journey, a man ran up to Him and knelt before Him, and asked Him, "Good Teacher, what shall I do so that I may inherit eternal life?" ... 30 but that he will receive a hundred times as much now in the present age, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and farms, along with persecutions; and in the age to come, eternal life.​

[Luk 10:25 NASB20] 25 And behold, a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"​

[Luk 18:18, 30 NASB20] 18 A ruler questioned Him, saying, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" ... 30 who will not receive many times as much at this time, and in the age to come, eternal life."​

[Jhn 3:15-16, 36 NASB20] 15 so that everyone who believes will have eternal life in Him. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. ... 36 "The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."​

[Jhn 4:14, 36 NASB20] 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never be thirsty; but the water that I will give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up to eternal life." ... 36 "Already the one who reaps is receiving wages and is gathering fruit for eternal life, so that the one who sows and the one who reaps may rejoice together.​

[Jhn 5:39 NASB20] 39 "You examine the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is those [very Scriptures] that testify about Me;​

[Jhn 6:27, 40, 47, 54, 68 NASB20] 27 "Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal." ... 40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." ... 47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, the one who believes has eternal life. ... 54 "The one who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. ... 68 Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.​

[Jhn 10:28 NASB20] 28 and I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.​

[Jhn 12:25, 50 NASB20] 25 "The one who loves his life loses it, and the one who hates his life in this world will keep it to eternal life. ... 50 "And I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me."​

[Jhn 17:2-3 NASB20] 2 just as You gave Him authority over all mankind, so that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life. 3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.​

[Act 13:46, 48 NASB20] 46 Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, "It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first. Since you repudiate it and consider yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles. ... 48 When the Gentiles heard this, they [began] rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and all who had been appointed to eternal life believed.​

[Rom 2:7 NASB20] 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, [He will give] eternal life;​

[Rom 5:21 NASB20] 21 so that, as sin reigned in death, so also grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.​

[Rom 6:22-23 NASB20] 22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gracious gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.​

[Gal 6:8 NASB20] 8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will reap destruction from the flesh, but the one who sows to the Spirit will reap eternal life from the Spirit.​

[1Ti 1:16 NASB20] 16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost [sinner] Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.​

[1Ti 6:12 NASB20] 12 Fight the good fight of faith; take hold of the eternal life to which you were called, and [for which] you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.​

[Tit 1:2 NASB20] 2 in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long ages ago,​

[Tit 3:7 NASB20] 7 so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to [the] hope of eternal life.​

[1Jo 1:2 NASB20] 2 and the life was revealed, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was revealed to us--​

[1Jo 2:25 NASB20] 25 This is the promise which He Himself made to us: eternal life.​

[1Jo 3:15 NASB20] 15 Everyone who hates his brother [or sister] is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life remaining in him.​

[1Jo 5:11, 13, 20 NASB20] 11 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. ... 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life. ... 20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.​

[Jde 1:21 NASB20] 21 keep yourselves in the love of God, looking forward to the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life.​

​

Now we can compare that to the "WHOLE BIBLE" that tells us our LIFE in CHRIST is precarious and may be lost at any moment ...
[I will patiently wait for you to present the verses.]

 

[GRACE ambassador]

See you are taking one scripture and making it stand alone that is not how we read the bible so something must be out of context or not understood correctly

Whoa! Don't tell us that you are "on to something" - kinda like this?:

Applying Rule # 6 of Bible study Rules To The Following?:

God's Eternal Salvation believers have about 12-Dozen Harmonious Scriptures:

God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST
+ Update
+
God's Eternal Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance

vs

The NOSAS 'temporary ' salvation believers, who have:

A Few (about 15-16?) Obscure and Difficult verses that are Isolated / Misunderstood / Mistranslated?

Amen!

 

[St. SteVen]

No child Born of God having experienced his unlimited love would by his free will chose to repent back to what he was before.

Last time I checked... it was called backsliding.
The Good Shepherd leaves the ninety-nine to go after the one to bring them back to the fold.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Berean Standard Bible
Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.


I wonder if @Big Boy Johnson ...understands what this mean

Judas....
He knew beyond all shadow of a doubt that Jesus was the Messiah and Son of God.

He had performed miracles himself in Jesus's name. He watched Jesus walk on water. Seen Lazarus come back from the dead.
But Judas wasn't exactly saved.

God worked through a sinner disciple to work miracles because God had no idea Judas was a betrayer.

In reality,Judas was saved by Christ from the cross.And it was Satan who entered Judas and led him to turn Jesus over to the Sanhedrin.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

But I decided that you are unreachable.

Those being led by the Holy Spirit in to ALL of God's Word which is Truth... are in fact unreachable by those teaching false doctrine.

We cannot, by an act of our own will, undo what only God could do in the first place.

Those that do not accept God's warnings to man that says turning away from the Lord causes His grace to no longer be applied to them... would see it that way.

But Judas wasn't exactly saved.

He was actually saved at one point because the Holy Spirit was moving thru him doing miracles and because it would have been a sin for Jesus to have a servant of satan working in His ministry representing Him to the people.

We know Jesus never sinned, and as the Word teaches it's possible for God's Word to be choked out and one no longer bares fruit which is what happened to Judas as he allowed the lied of the devil to enter in and cause him to turn away from being faithful to the Lord.

Of course the OSAS people cannot accept that Judas was once saved because doing so would be admitting that OSAS doctrine is not true.

So falling away can NOT mean we fall from salvation. or else Jesus lied..

That must mean you think Jesus lied when He said these things . . . .

John 15:1,2
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

John 15:5
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Matthew 10:32,33
Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 6:14,15
For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endures to the end shall be saved.

 

[Ritajanice]

Got answer...we’ll explained...They were NEVER Born Again in the first place!!

The apparent problem is the same with all of the other passages in Scripture that warn Christians about falling away. If a true Christian cannot lose salvation, why warn about falling away? The best explanation is that these warnings are directed toward professing Christians who appear, at least outwardly, to be connected to the Vine. They are branches in the vicinity of the Vine, but there is a disconnect. Judas Iscariot is a good example of a false professor. The parable of the seed and the soils (Matthew 13) presents young plants that seem to start out well but then wither away. The book of Hebrews, with its many warning passages, seems to be directed at those who have made an initial positive response to Jesus but are considering turning back. They are like the children of Israel who left in the exodus with Moses but then refused to enter the Promised Land (Hebrews 3:16–19). They started out on the journey but didn’t complete it.

Based on outward appearances at any given moment, it may be difficult to tell genuine believers (connected in vital unity with the True Vine) from those who have merely attached themselves to some of the trappings of Christianity. However, time will tell the difference, because the genuine believer attached to the True Vine will bear fruit. A false professor appears to be attached but does not bear fruit, and it’s the lack of fruit that shows a branch is not receiving the fruit-bearing energy that comes from attachment to the Vine. Regardless of how attached this branch may appear to be on the surface, it is lacking the one absolute evidence of attachment—fruit! That “branch” should not console himself with false notions that he is attached, because his lack of fruit bears condemning evidence against him. In this case, the branch was never really attached in the first place. The metaphor (or allegory) of the vine and the branches can only be pressed so far.


In Jesus Name!.....Amen!!

A True Believer is one who has been birthed in the Spirit.

 

[Godslittleservant]

Here you go, the "ONE SCRIPTURE" taken out of context and not understood correctly that the LIFE which Jesus gives us is ETERNAL:

[Mat 19:16, 29 NASB20] 16 And someone came to Him and said, "Teacher, what good thing shall I do so that I may obtain eternal life?" ... 29 "And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or farms on account of My name, will receive many times as much, and will inherit eternal life.​

[Mat 25:46 NASB20] 46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."​

[Mar 10:17, 30 NASB20] 17 As He was setting out on a journey, a man ran up to Him and knelt before Him, and asked Him, "Good Teacher, what shall I do so that I may inherit eternal life?" ... 30 but that he will receive a hundred times as much now in the present age, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and farms, along with persecutions; and in the age to come, eternal life.​

[Luk 10:25 NASB20] 25 And behold, a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"​

[Luk 18:18, 30 NASB20] 18 A ruler questioned Him, saying, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" ... 30 who will not receive many times as much at this time, and in the age to come, eternal life."​

[Jhn 3:15-16, 36 NASB20] 15 so that everyone who believes will have eternal life in Him. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. ... 36 "The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."​

[Jhn 4:14, 36 NASB20] 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never be thirsty; but the water that I will give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up to eternal life." ... 36 "Already the one who reaps is receiving wages and is gathering fruit for eternal life, so that the one who sows and the one who reaps may rejoice together.​

[Jhn 5:39 NASB20] 39 "You examine the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is those [very Scriptures] that testify about Me;​

[Jhn 6:27, 40, 47, 54, 68 NASB20] 27 "Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal." ... 40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." ... 47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, the one who believes has eternal life. ... 54 "The one who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. ... 68 Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.​

[Jhn 10:28 NASB20] 28 and I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.​

[Jhn 12:25, 50 NASB20] 25 "The one who loves his life loses it, and the one who hates his life in this world will keep it to eternal life. ... 50 "And I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me."​

[Jhn 17:2-3 NASB20] 2 just as You gave Him authority over all mankind, so that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life. 3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.​

[Act 13:46, 48 NASB20] 46 Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, "It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first. Since you repudiate it and consider yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles. ... 48 When the Gentiles heard this, they [began] rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and all who had been appointed to eternal life believed.​

[Rom 2:7 NASB20] 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, [He will give] eternal life;​

[Rom 5:21 NASB20] 21 so that, as sin reigned in death, so also grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.​

[Rom 6:22-23 NASB20] 22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gracious gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.​

[Gal 6:8 NASB20] 8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will reap destruction from the flesh, but the one who sows to the Spirit will reap eternal life from the Spirit.​

[1Ti 1:16 NASB20] 16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost [sinner] Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.​

[1Ti 6:12 NASB20] 12 Fight the good fight of faith; take hold of the eternal life to which you were called, and [for which] you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.​

[Tit 1:2 NASB20] 2 in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long ages ago,​

[Tit 3:7 NASB20] 7 so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to [the] hope of eternal life.​

[1Jo 1:2 NASB20] 2 and the life was revealed, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was revealed to us--​

[1Jo 2:25 NASB20] 25 This is the promise which He Himself made to us: eternal life.​

[1Jo 3:15 NASB20] 15 Everyone who hates his brother [or sister] is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life remaining in him.​

[1Jo 5:11, 13, 20 NASB20] 11 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. ... 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life. ... 20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.​

[Jde 1:21 NASB20] 21 keep yourselves in the love of God, looking forward to the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life.​

​

Now we can compare that to the "WHOLE BIBLE" that tells us our LIFE in CHRIST is precarious and may be lost at any moment ...
[I will patiently wait for you to present the verses.]

but do you compare those with the ones that teach we can fall from grace the we must run the race that we must endure to the end I think you are refusing to harmonize them with yours and put on a blindfold to the rest of the scriptures that disagree with your assessment on what all was recorded just wondering if that is a healthy way of study.

 

[Godslittleservant]

Got answer...we’ll explained...They were NEVER Born Again in the first place!!

The apparent problem is the same with all of the other passages in Scripture that warn Christians about falling away. If a true Christian cannot lose salvation, why warn about falling away? The best explanation is that these warnings are directed toward professing Christians who appear, at least outwardly, to be connected to the Vine. They are branches in the vicinity of the Vine, but there is a disconnect. Judas Iscariot is a good example of a false professor. The parable of the seed and the soils (Matthew 13) presents young plants that seem to start out well but then wither away. The book of Hebrews, with its many warning passages, seems to be directed at those who have made an initial positive response to Jesus but are considering turning back. They are like the children of Israel who left in the exodus with Moses but then refused to enter the Promised Land (Hebrews 3:16–19). They started out on the journey but didn’t complete it.

Based on outward appearances at any given moment, it may be difficult to tell genuine believers (connected in vital unity with the True Vine) from those who have merely attached themselves to some of the trappings of Christianity. However, time will tell the difference, because the genuine believer attached to the True Vine will bear fruit. A false professor appears to be attached but does not bear fruit, and it’s the lack of fruit that shows a branch is not receiving the fruit-bearing energy that comes from attachment to the Vine. Regardless of how attached this branch may appear to be on the surface, it is lacking the one absolute evidence of attachment—fruit! That “branch” should not console himself with false notions that he is attached, because his lack of fruit bears condemning evidence against him. In this case, the branch was never really attached in the first place. The metaphor (or allegory) of the vine and the branches can only be pressed so far.


In Jesus Name!.....Amen!!

A True Believer is one who has been birthed in the Spirit.

misunderstanding whether you or me or both but does not harmonize with all scripture so we have to find out why.

 

[Ritajanice]

misunderstanding whether you or me or both but does not harmonize with all scripture so we have to find out why.

I agree with got and their commentary.

That’s your belief/ opinion that it doesn’t harmonise with scripture, I disagree with you.

I’m not here to argue over scripture with you and what you believe it to be saying...it’s fruitless.

Those who were burnt and thrown into the fire , were those who attached themselves to the vine....they were NEVER in him in the first place.

A true Born Again can NEVER lose their salvation...NEVER...my belief 100%