Many speak of 7 coming years of Tribulation.
What verse or verses of Scripture mentions this 7 years of coming tribulation ?
What verse or verses of Scripture mentions this 7 years of coming tribulation ?
Seven Years of Tribulation,
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It's written in Elijah 5:4. Wait a minute, there is no Bible Book called Elijah.
Per the 70 weeks prophecy given in Daniel 9, it's separated into 3 periods, the final period equal to "one week". The days of a week are determined as years per the prophecy. A false one is to come and make a "league" for a period of 7 years ("one week"), and in the middle of that week removes the daily sacrifice and sets up an idol abomination for false worship. This led Dispensationalists of old to reckon the tribulation to be 7 years. But the actual tribulation time is when that abomination of desolation is setup.
Per the 70 weeks prophecy given in Daniel 9, it's separated into 3 periods, the final period equal to "one week". The days of a week are determined as years per the prophecy. A false one is to come and make a "league" for a period of 7 years ("one week"), and in the middle of that week removes the daily sacrifice and sets up an idol abomination for false worship. This led Dispensationalists of old to reckon the tribulation to be 7 years. But the actual tribulation time is when that abomination of desolation is setup.
Hello Veteran,
Where in Daniel 9:24-27 is "A false one is to come and make a "league" for a period of 7 years ("one week")" mentioned ?
Where in Daniel 9:24-27 is "A false one is to come and make a "league" for a period of 7 years ("one week")" mentioned ?
First, the last week being changed into 7 years is a false interpretation. It is based on the old day for year theory that lead the folks who are now known as the Seventh Day Adventists and their offshoot, the Jehovah's Witnesses astray and continues to do the same thing to others as well. I guess I need to show you a better interpretation, so I will.
If you take the Seventy Weeks of Daniel and add them to the days assigned to the tribulation in Revelations, you get exactly 2300 days which is what Daniel 8:14 states is how long the tribulation actually lasts. Therefore, the Seventy weeks are actually days and are not to be reinterpreted as anything else. Sadly, even tho it is easy to see, most people don't (or perhaps can't).
Second, the 'He' listed in Dan 9:27 seems to be speaking of the Messiah who is cut off in verse 28, but since people try to say that the messiah in Dan 9 is Jesus, they have reversed it and try to say it is the Beast or someone who does this. The preceding verse makes it clear this is not so. The error here is that the Messiah of Dan 9 is not Jesus, but is Michael, who appears on earth to herald the second coming of Jesus and who actively fights the Beast on earth prior to Jesus return. The Beast at the end of the 69th week has defiled the temple and corrupted it and Michael puts a stop to it which starts the war that comes after. This event launches the 42 month period of the Beasts domination while the saints of the time are in the wilderness in safety protecting the woman of Rev 12 (yes, she is a real woman).
Most people dont realise that Revelations is MUCH more literal than it is given credit it credit for.
If you take the Seventy Weeks of Daniel and add them to the days assigned to the tribulation in Revelations, you get exactly 2300 days which is what Daniel 8:14 states is how long the tribulation actually lasts. Therefore, the Seventy weeks are actually days and are not to be reinterpreted as anything else. Sadly, even tho it is easy to see, most people don't (or perhaps can't).
Second, the 'He' listed in Dan 9:27 seems to be speaking of the Messiah who is cut off in verse 28, but since people try to say that the messiah in Dan 9 is Jesus, they have reversed it and try to say it is the Beast or someone who does this. The preceding verse makes it clear this is not so. The error here is that the Messiah of Dan 9 is not Jesus, but is Michael, who appears on earth to herald the second coming of Jesus and who actively fights the Beast on earth prior to Jesus return. The Beast at the end of the 69th week has defiled the temple and corrupted it and Michael puts a stop to it which starts the war that comes after. This event launches the 42 month period of the Beasts domination while the saints of the time are in the wilderness in safety protecting the woman of Rev 12 (yes, she is a real woman).
Most people dont realise that Revelations is MUCH more literal than it is given credit it credit for.
Ive never read of a tribulation that last seven years anywhere in the bible.
I have read of the saints in judea being persecuted for three and a half years though and that is mentioned in several books.
Daniel 7;25
He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time'
I have read of the saints in judea being persecuted for three and a half years though and that is mentioned in several books.
Daniel 7;25
He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time'
tim_from_pa
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And also don't forget the 7 times punishment in Leviticus, i.e. I will punish you 7 times for your sins. A "time" being prophetic language for a prophetic year of 360 days --- in Jeremiah 30 we read that Israel would go thru the "time of Jacob's Trouble".
There was a long fulfillment using Ezekiel's day for a year, i.e. 2520 years and the tribulation's short fulfillment of a literal 2520 days. So we see in history for exaple that the Israelite tribe of Manasseh went into captivity something like 745BC, and adding 2520 years later shows when they'd come out of that punishment. There's also a more intense short punishment of a literal 2520 days.
In both Daniel and Revelation, there is also phrases such as time, times and the dividing of time (i.e. 3 1/2) as a midpoint, e.g. the abomination of desolation such as in Daniel 9 as an example. We also see numbers directly stating the months such as 42 months and similar numbers such as 1260, 1290, and 1335, etc.
Of course these times have a relationship to the synodic month and this 7-year stuff touches on the subject of the calendar which I won't elaborate on in detail. The actual sacred calendar for the feast days of the Lord itself was extremely easy to do that a child could do it as no calculations were employed --- the month began with seeing the thin waxing crescent moon shortly after sunset usually 30 hours or so after conjunction, and the first month of the year was determined by the ripening of the barley. Nobody knew when the next month would begin except a general time frame. The sun was used for determining days, the moon for months and the barley for years when to begin the first month and whether or not to intercalate.
There was a long fulfillment using Ezekiel's day for a year, i.e. 2520 years and the tribulation's short fulfillment of a literal 2520 days. So we see in history for exaple that the Israelite tribe of Manasseh went into captivity something like 745BC, and adding 2520 years later shows when they'd come out of that punishment. There's also a more intense short punishment of a literal 2520 days.
In both Daniel and Revelation, there is also phrases such as time, times and the dividing of time (i.e. 3 1/2) as a midpoint, e.g. the abomination of desolation such as in Daniel 9 as an example. We also see numbers directly stating the months such as 42 months and similar numbers such as 1260, 1290, and 1335, etc.
Of course these times have a relationship to the synodic month and this 7-year stuff touches on the subject of the calendar which I won't elaborate on in detail. The actual sacred calendar for the feast days of the Lord itself was extremely easy to do that a child could do it as no calculations were employed --- the month began with seeing the thin waxing crescent moon shortly after sunset usually 30 hours or so after conjunction, and the first month of the year was determined by the ripening of the barley. Nobody knew when the next month would begin except a general time frame. The sun was used for determining days, the moon for months and the barley for years when to begin the first month and whether or not to intercalate.
Dan 9:27
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
(KJV)
Dan 11:23
23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.
(KJV)
Dan 11:31
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
(KJV)
Dan 12:11
11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
(KJV)
Matt 24:15
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
(KJV)
Mark 13:14
14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
(KJV)
Hi tim from pa...
To figure the time sequence for the release of the House of Israel (10 Tribes) scattered among the gentile (pagan; heathen) nations), one must subtract the year 734 B.C. when their deportation began, from the 2,730 years punishment time allotted to the House of Israel. 2,730 years - 734 B.C. = 1996 A.D. to be the time of release for the House of Israel(10 Northern Tribes) from the Judgment for the sin of idolatry. This all comes from Ezekiel 4:9 which I understand pretty well but please tell me where you get the concept of 2520 days?
In Yeshua Messiah,
Bob
To figure the time sequence for the release of the House of Israel (10 Tribes) scattered among the gentile (pagan; heathen) nations), one must subtract the year 734 B.C. when their deportation began, from the 2,730 years punishment time allotted to the House of Israel. 2,730 years - 734 B.C. = 1996 A.D. to be the time of release for the House of Israel(10 Northern Tribes) from the Judgment for the sin of idolatry. This all comes from Ezekiel 4:9 which I understand pretty well but please tell me where you get the concept of 2520 days?
In Yeshua Messiah,
Bob
Anyone who buys the day for year theory in relation to this prophecy is off base.
I can prove that the seventy weeks means exactly what it says, in that it is truely a seventy week period and not to be reinterpreted as anything else.
Allow me to restate it one more time:
Take 70 weeks (490 days) per Dan 9
Add the times given us for the 5th, 6th and 7th angels (interesting that no times are given for the first 4) in Revelation being:
5 months (150 days using 30 day months which is how the Jews counted all the days of their months) per Rev 9:5 (5th Angel)
1 hr, 1 day, 1 month and 1 year (396 1/4 days) per Rev 9:15 (6th Angel)
1260 days = 3 1/2 times = 42 months (this is all the same time period and is clearly laid out as such in Rev 11:2 & 3, 12:6, 12:14 and 13:5.
Lastly we have the 3 and 1/2 days that the Two Prophets lay dead as the people party down.
5 simple numbers, but has anyone ever thought to just add em up? Let’s recap:
490 days, which is broken into 3 parts being 7 weeks (49 days) 62 weeks (434 days) and 1 week (7 days)
150 days
396.25 days
1260 days
3.5 days
And you get 2299.75 days, which is the 2300 days of Daniels prophecy in ch 8.
Simple.
I can prove that the seventy weeks means exactly what it says, in that it is truely a seventy week period and not to be reinterpreted as anything else.
Allow me to restate it one more time:
Take 70 weeks (490 days) per Dan 9
Add the times given us for the 5th, 6th and 7th angels (interesting that no times are given for the first 4) in Revelation being:
5 months (150 days using 30 day months which is how the Jews counted all the days of their months) per Rev 9:5 (5th Angel)
1 hr, 1 day, 1 month and 1 year (396 1/4 days) per Rev 9:15 (6th Angel)
1260 days = 3 1/2 times = 42 months (this is all the same time period and is clearly laid out as such in Rev 11:2 & 3, 12:6, 12:14 and 13:5.
Lastly we have the 3 and 1/2 days that the Two Prophets lay dead as the people party down.
5 simple numbers, but has anyone ever thought to just add em up? Let’s recap:
490 days, which is broken into 3 parts being 7 weeks (49 days) 62 weeks (434 days) and 1 week (7 days)
150 days
396.25 days
1260 days
3.5 days
And you get 2299.75 days, which is the 2300 days of Daniels prophecy in ch 8.
Simple.
Tim, The "7 times" of Leviticus doesn't apply because after the Babylonian captivity when Nehemiah re-built the temple, Israel as a nation repented. The caveat for Israel to be punished 7 times did not apply towards their sin but only if they refused to repent. They repented thus no 7 times judgment.
Judas's punishment was for 430 years (40 +390), after that time their sins were forgiven and in 166BC they returned to the Torah: today they live a covenant relationship with Yahweh. It was the northern tribes who were divorced and dispersed into the world for 7 times the 390 years or 2730 years, I think that judgement expired on or about 1996 AD. It is Judah that lives in the land today and for the most part the 10 tribes have forgotten who they are but Yahweh will open their minds and return them to the land in the latter days.
Eze 20:34-37 ESV I will bring you out from the peoples and gather you out of the countries where you are scattered, with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm, and with wrath poured out. (35) And I will bring you into the wilderness of the peoples, and there I will enter into judgment with you face to face. (36) As I entered into judgment with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so I will enter into judgment with you, declares the Lord GOD. (37) I will make you pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant.
In Yeshua Messiah,
Bob
Eze 20:34-37 ESV I will bring you out from the peoples and gather you out of the countries where you are scattered, with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm, and with wrath poured out. (35) And I will bring you into the wilderness of the peoples, and there I will enter into judgment with you face to face. (36) As I entered into judgment with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so I will enter into judgment with you, declares the Lord GOD. (37) I will make you pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant.
In Yeshua Messiah,
Bob
The reason why that does not work is because the 70 weeks prophecy of Daniel involved the establishing of Jerusalem and the temple after the Babylon captivity, and then the time of Christ's first coming. That involved a lot more than just 2300 days obviously.
I've had a lot more than seven years of tribulation hehe. I can't imagine seven more, but drugs and meds do wonders :)
I've read just about every theological presentation of a "7 year tribulation" theory, but this is the Bible's teaching on "tribulation" and how it relates to everyone including us;
(Act 14:22)
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
(Rom 2:9)
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
(Rom 5:3)
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
(Rom 12:12)
Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;
(2Th 1:6)
Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
(Rev 7:14)
And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
There's the Bibles description. Quite the difference from the futuristic version offered by theology.
Peace
Whitestone
(Rev 1:9)
I don’t understand why you guys want to make the 70[sup]th[/sup] week so complicated; remember that the simplest explanation is likely the correct one.
Yeshua fulfilled the first 3 ½ years of the last week upon the cross and there are 3 ½ years remaining of increased tribulation that Yahweh will use to separate true believers from unbelievers. Those who have no faith or understanding of Yahweh’s word will take the apparently easy road and follow the antichrist; it is no different than our elections, people without understanding are willing to follow the lies of a slick politician. At the same time the increased fear and tribulation will help immature believers that prior to this time have had very little interest in growing in their spiritual walk reach out to Yeshua. Mature believers will actually not be affected to any great extent because Yeshua will protect them during this time; however our life will likely be altered to some great extend and we might have to live like our ancestors did 100 years ago...they didn't think it was so bad. Yahweh has no interest in punishing those who are living their lives according to His will, He has said repeatedly that if we love Him and obey Him He will protect and prosper us.
I’m sure no one will hear what I’m saying and continue to develop complicated formulas about a “Great Tribulation”.
Just to make a point of clarification; we will most certainly be protected during the time of the wrath of Yahweh which is separate from the tribulation period.
In Yeshua Messiah,
Bob
Yeshua fulfilled the first 3 ½ years of the last week upon the cross and there are 3 ½ years remaining of increased tribulation that Yahweh will use to separate true believers from unbelievers. Those who have no faith or understanding of Yahweh’s word will take the apparently easy road and follow the antichrist; it is no different than our elections, people without understanding are willing to follow the lies of a slick politician. At the same time the increased fear and tribulation will help immature believers that prior to this time have had very little interest in growing in their spiritual walk reach out to Yeshua. Mature believers will actually not be affected to any great extent because Yeshua will protect them during this time; however our life will likely be altered to some great extend and we might have to live like our ancestors did 100 years ago...they didn't think it was so bad. Yahweh has no interest in punishing those who are living their lives according to His will, He has said repeatedly that if we love Him and obey Him He will protect and prosper us.
I’m sure no one will hear what I’m saying and continue to develop complicated formulas about a “Great Tribulation”.
Just to make a point of clarification; we will most certainly be protected during the time of the wrath of Yahweh which is separate from the tribulation period.
In Yeshua Messiah,
Bob
Simpler yet to work from the idea that Dan was correct and there is no need to add any time to his prophecy.I don’t understand why you guys want to make the 70[sup]th[/sup] week so complicated; remember that the simplest explanation is likely the correct one.
Yeshua fulfilled the first 3 ½ years of the last week upon the cross and there are 3 ½ years remaining of increased tribulation that Yahweh will use to separate true believers from unbelievers. Those who have no faith or understanding of Yahweh’s word will take the apparently easy road and follow the antichrist; it is no different than our elections, people without understanding are willing to follow the lies of a slick politician. At the same time the increased fear and tribulation will help immature believers that prior to this time have had very little interest in growing in their spiritual walk reach out to Yeshua. Mature believers will actually not be affected to any great extent because Yeshua will protect them during this time; however our life will likely be altered to some great extend and we might have to live like our ancestors did 100 years ago...they didn't think it was so bad. Yahweh has no interest in punishing those who are living their lives according to His will, He has said repeatedly that if we love Him and obey Him He will protect and prosper us.
I’m sure no one will hear what I’m saying and continue to develop complicated formulas about a “Great Tribulation”.
In Yeshua Messiah,
Bob
LambOfChrist
New Member
The reason behind the weeks being 7 years is solid with scripture and proven with time.
In the days of Laban Jacob was given Rachel to wed. In a drunken stupor Jacob was tricked into taking the older sister. Laban told Jacob to finish the "week" with leah and he could then have Rachel. Then it says when Jacob had finished the 7 years he was given Rachel to wed.
So In Genisis we see that the word week was used for a period of 7 years.
Time proved this correct because from the time that the command was given to rebuild Jerusalem until the Messiah was to be cut off was to be 7 weeks and 62 weeks. If these were 7 year periods then this would be 483 years. Jesus was crucified exactly 483 years after Neamiah received the order to rebuild Jerusalem.
He is King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
Hallalujia!!
!!
I must agree with the word that there is no 7 year tribulation or pre tribulation rapture.
However, scripture is clear that there is a 7 year covanant made by the prince of the people who destroyed the temple and the sanctuary. This covenant was made on January 1st, 2007, I am sure. It is called the European Neighborhood Partnership Instrument. It is several agreements made with different nations at different times around the Middle East. Jovier Solana was the High Representative for the European Union and on January 1st, 2007 he went to his office with very little fan fare and set his signature on this covenant thereby confirming it for the next 7 year budget period.
We arte in the 7 years now.
In the King James Bible the word in Daniel 9:27 reads "and in the midst of the 7 he will cause the sacrifice and ablation to cease"
Many other bibles use the word middle in this verase, but the word midst is not middle. I can be lost in a crown and be in the midst of the crown while I am not in the middle of the crowd. Words are very important.
Proof that this word is midst and not middle is Daniel 8:13,14. There we read that there are 2300 days after the covenant is signed to give the sanctuary and strength to be trodden under foot.
2300 days from January 1st, 2007 is April 18th, 2013. This is a day to watch.
Proof that Daniel 8 pertains to the covenant that is at the end is verse 19 where the word says this scripture is to be applied to the time of the end.
Futher proof is that the 2 witnesses of Revelation 11 are told to leave out the courtyard when they prophecy because the coutyard is given to the Gentiles to be trodden under foot 42 months (3 1/2 years)
The word is Lord of all.
Hallalujia!!
In the days of Laban Jacob was given Rachel to wed. In a drunken stupor Jacob was tricked into taking the older sister. Laban told Jacob to finish the "week" with leah and he could then have Rachel. Then it says when Jacob had finished the 7 years he was given Rachel to wed.
So In Genisis we see that the word week was used for a period of 7 years.
Time proved this correct because from the time that the command was given to rebuild Jerusalem until the Messiah was to be cut off was to be 7 weeks and 62 weeks. If these were 7 year periods then this would be 483 years. Jesus was crucified exactly 483 years after Neamiah received the order to rebuild Jerusalem.
He is King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
Hallalujia!!
!!
I must agree with the word that there is no 7 year tribulation or pre tribulation rapture.
However, scripture is clear that there is a 7 year covanant made by the prince of the people who destroyed the temple and the sanctuary. This covenant was made on January 1st, 2007, I am sure. It is called the European Neighborhood Partnership Instrument. It is several agreements made with different nations at different times around the Middle East. Jovier Solana was the High Representative for the European Union and on January 1st, 2007 he went to his office with very little fan fare and set his signature on this covenant thereby confirming it for the next 7 year budget period.
We arte in the 7 years now.
In the King James Bible the word in Daniel 9:27 reads "and in the midst of the 7 he will cause the sacrifice and ablation to cease"
Many other bibles use the word middle in this verase, but the word midst is not middle. I can be lost in a crown and be in the midst of the crown while I am not in the middle of the crowd. Words are very important.
Proof that this word is midst and not middle is Daniel 8:13,14. There we read that there are 2300 days after the covenant is signed to give the sanctuary and strength to be trodden under foot.
2300 days from January 1st, 2007 is April 18th, 2013. This is a day to watch.
Proof that Daniel 8 pertains to the covenant that is at the end is verse 19 where the word says this scripture is to be applied to the time of the end.
Futher proof is that the 2 witnesses of Revelation 11 are told to leave out the courtyard when they prophecy because the coutyard is given to the Gentiles to be trodden under foot 42 months (3 1/2 years)
The word is Lord of all.
Hallalujia!!
Who is it that is allowed to bring great pressure upon the world; is it not the antichrist or the beast as spoken of in Revelation? So what does Revelation say about the timing of any tribulation?
Rev 13:5-7 ESV And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. (6) It opened its mouth to utter blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling, that is, those who dwell in heaven. (7) Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation,
I see nothing about the antichrist ruling for 7 years or having authority from Yahweh from to exercise power for anything more that the 3 1/2 years.
In Yeshua Messiah,
Bob
Rev 13:5-7 ESV And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. (6) It opened its mouth to utter blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling, that is, those who dwell in heaven. (7) Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation,
I see nothing about the antichrist ruling for 7 years or having authority from Yahweh from to exercise power for anything more that the 3 1/2 years.
In Yeshua Messiah,
Bob
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