Do you believe Spirit baptism replaces water baptism?

[St. SteVen]

The gifts have all ceased as 1 cor 13:8 says they would. They were needed then for a variety of reasons, but not now. Yes, none of those gifts, or manifestations of the Spirit, are present today.

Chapter 12 says that all those parts make up the body.
Cessationism makes an amputee out of the Body of Christ.

And in terms of chapter 13, do you also believe that knowledge has passed away?

1 Corinthians 13:8 NIV
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues,
they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Mark 16:16 rewritten

"He that believeth and dyes cloth shall be saved--------"

"Blessed are the cheese makers?" :)

 

[CadyandZoe]

Perhaps its best to Let Jesus explain it...then to just guess and hope for the best.

Jesus said..

'""""Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. But John tried to deter him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?” Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to = fulfill all righteousness.”

It's important to comprehend the meaning behind Jesus' actions. The gospel writers distinguish between the way the Pharisees and Jesus responded to John. While it's true that Jesus allowed John to baptize him to "fulfill all righteousness," what exactly does that entail? Shortly after his baptism, Jesus spoke to the public about achieving a "greater righteousness" than the Pharisees. This prompts us to ponder, "In what ways did the righteousness of the Pharisees fall short?"

In the parable of the publican and the tax-gatherer, the Gospels provide a partial answer to our question. The publican declared that he was different from other men. Some argue that the Pharisees rejected John's baptism because they believed they did not need it. They thought they were already adhering to the law and pleasing God. While Jesus didn't require John's baptism to gain God's favor, as they both agreed, he received it anyway to affirm John's message that Israel should repent.

 

[CadyandZoe]

The children of Israel were baptized into moses, in the cloud and the sea

Moses was the head. as the head. the people of Israel were placed into him as the head

thats what it means to be baptized into christ. we are baptized into union with him, him being the head.

I understand and agree with your point, but it only applies to those who have received Christian baptism. Christian baptism signifies a person's agreement to follow Jesus, study his teachings, and believe in his message. This is an important distinction to make because some Christians get baptized for various other reasons, such as becoming a member of a specific church. When the New Testament states "believe and be baptized," it is not referring to joining a church, but rather becoming a disciple of Christ. It's important to understand the difference between the two.

 

[Grailhunter]

As long as we are on this bunny trail ... it is from the Baptists that America gets the concept of "Separation of Church and State". The Baptists were on the receiving end of state persecution from their founding and made Separation of Church and State a "Baptist Distinctive" in the 1600's. We believe that they corrupt each other when mixed and God ordained BOTH to "stay in their lanes".

So YAY, Baptists! :cool:

Love the Baptists and the history of the Anabaptists......

The Puritans fled Europe and the Catholic Church to practice their beliefs freely but, because they had the same hangup that the Catholic Church did....ie....thinking they were the one true church.....they were not tolerant of the beliefs of others. And they were not the only ones.....the Protestants were not getting along in the colonies and Catholics were definitely not welcome and at times would be left to starve.....So to start with the colonies were not the land of religious freedoms and this became a problem. It kinda defeated the purpose of fleeing religious persecution to a land of religious intolerance of sorts.

A man named Roger Williams decided to organize a city of religious tolerance, Providence, Rhode Island…..1636

And it was William Penn that founded Philadelphia.....the city of brotherly love….1682

Now who first thought that Separation of Church and State would be a good idea? It is hard to say, I will venture to say it was a general notion that had occurred to people for centuries. But the first to put it into motion and writing was the founding fathers.

And I am going to add this…..in the colonies….if you did not go to church….you and your family would fall under the suspicion of being witches….and then they would not have to worry about going to church.

 

[DJT_47]

Chapter 12 says that all those parts make up the body.
Cessationism makes an amputee out of the Body of Christ.

And in terms of chapter 13, do you also believe that knowledge has passed away?

1 Corinthians 13:8 NIV
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues,
they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

What knowledge is being referred to. Back then it was knowledge they didn't have such as we do today with the written word.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I understand and agree with your point, but it only applies to those who have received Christian baptism. Christian baptism signifies a person's agreement to follow Jesus, study his teachings, and believe in his message. This is an important distinction to make because some Christians get baptized for various other reasons, such as becoming a member of a specific church. When the New Testament states "believe and be baptized," it is not referring to joining a church, but rather becoming a disciple of Christ. It's important to understand the difference between the two.

Christian baptism is meaningless if one is not baptized by the spiritual baptism performed by God. Because until then, they are still dead in their sin

Christian baptism is an answer o a good conscience towards God. It is an open testimony of an inward faith. But it is no more salvic than any other command God has given.

 

[Behold]

It's important to comprehend the meaning behind Jesus' actions.

Yes, like this..

Jesus said..

'""""Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. But John tried to deter him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?” Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to = fulfill all righteousness.”

See, Christ had to fulfill all Law and Die a sinless sacrifice, so that we can be restored to spiritual union with God.

And He Did.
And we can.

 

[Johann]

There is only "one baptism" Ephesians 4:5 (nothing to replace).

Water baptism is only practice symbolizing being crucified and raised from the dead with Christ, and a way of spreading the good news of salvation through Christ Jesus.

"one baptism"

This probably refers to water baptism, which was the early church's public confession of faith (cf. Matt. 28:19; Rom. 10:9-13). It symbolized death to the old life and the beginning of the new life in Christ (Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:12).

However, it could refer to Spirit baptism (cf. Acts 2:38; 1 Cor. 12:13). Even though the Spirit is mentioned in Eph. 4:4, these two initial events, one inward (Spirit baptism) and one outward (water baptism), are closely linked in the NT.

 

[Behold]

In the parable of the publican and the tax-gatherer,

What Jesus said to John the Baptist, is not a parable.

 

[mailmandan]

"one baptism"

This probably refers to water baptism, which was the early church's public confession of faith (cf. Matt. 28:19; Rom. 10:9-13). It symbolized death to the old life and the beginning of the new life in Christ (Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:12).

However, it could refer to Spirit baptism (cf. Acts 2:38; 1 Cor. 12:13). Even though the Spirit is mentioned in Eph. 4:4, these two initial events, one inward (Spirit baptism) and one outward (water baptism), are closely linked in the NT.

There is only one baptism that places us into the body of Christ and that is Spirit baptism, not water baptism.

Ephesians 4:5 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

 

[Johann]

Paul like all apostles was sent to teach and to baptize Matt 28:19

simply says he was sent primarily to preach

Jn 3:5 what’s the water for?

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism / water)

they did not go about preaching “accept Christ as your personal lord and savior”!

baptismal regeneration is the initiation into the new covenant church the kingdom of God!

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”

A sacrament is an oath! A sacred promise from God! Ez 36:25-27


A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!

As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!

without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!

Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!

Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!

They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “

They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22

A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!

Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.

Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.

You cannot enter on you’re own or by faith alone!

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,


Baptism!

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!



Christ instituted the holy church for the salvation of all men, (repent and believe the gospel, with the institution of the sacraments to convey grace to sanctify souls!


Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 2:1&5 brought to life in baptism
Eph 4:5 one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!

Faith and baptism!

Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!

2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

The Christian sacrament of baptism is the Initiation into the new covenant and must be ministered to you by the apostles!




“Faith alone”

Questions

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”

Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?

Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?

They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???

When we first believed we are saved?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.

How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?

If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!

Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2

Wow!
@Behold -see this? Large-copious copy and paste from the Catholic Home Page-

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There is only one baptism that places us into the body of Christ and that is Spirit baptism, not water baptism.

Ephesians 4:5 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

it is sad that the fathers did not interpret the word as it really should be interpreted and made a new word.

we would not be having this discussions

 

[Johann]

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

BAPTISM OF THE SPIRIT

The first time this phrase is mentioned is in connection to the minnistry of John the Baptist (cf. Matt. 3:11; Mark 1:8; Luke 3:16; John 1:33). It is linked with "fire." Jesus' baptizes with the Holy Spirit and fire, which denotes a cleansing process, as well as an empowering process.

The Messiah will inaugurate the new age of the Spirit (cf. Joel 2:28-32). His baptism will be with (or "in" or "by") the Spirit (i.e., Pentecost, cf. Acts 1:5; 2:1-4). There has been much discussion among denominations as to what event in the Christian experience this refers. Some take it to refer to an empowering experience after salvation, a kind of second blessing. Personally I think it refers to becoming a Christian (cf. 1 Cor. 12:13; this is theologically parallel to "born of the Spirit" in John 3:5-6). I do not deny later and repeatable fillings and equippings (cf. Acts 2:4; 4:8,31; Eph. 5:18), but I believe there is only one initial spiritual baptism into Christ in which believers identify with Jesus' death and resurrection (cf. Rom. 6:3-4; Eph. 4:5; Col. 2:12). This initiating work of the Spirit is delineated in John 16:8-11. In my understanding the works of the Holy Spirit are:

1. convicting of sin

2. revealing the truth about Christ

3. leading to acceptance of the gospel

4. baptizing into Christ

5. convicting the believer of continuing sin

6. forming Christlikeness in the believer



It seems to me that the phrase is used of two things.

1. the beginning of the Spirit-empowered church (Acts 1:5)

2. the initial salvation of believers, who are empowered for ministry (1 Cor. 12:13)

"were all baptized into one body"

Water baptism is imagery of a previous spiritual experience that occurred at conversion (cf. Eph. 4:5). In several ways Eph. 4:4-6 parallels this passage.

This baptism refers to initial salvation, which incorporates believers into the body of Christ, the Church. The often-used contemporary phrase "the baptism of the Holy Spirit" is confusing because biblically it refers to one trusting Christ as savior, but it is used today of an empowering, yielding, later experience in the lives of believers. I do not deny the reality of this subsequent experience, but I prefer the term "Lordship experience." In reading the biographies of great Christians a pattern emerges:

trusting Christ
trying to serve Him
failing to produce lasting fruit
frustration at personal efforts
yielding to the need for God to do His own work
empowering for ministry
all glory to God, not the human vessel.

Like @Bible Highlighter I hold that water baptism is a Imperative-but brother-some are here to nit pick and argue-and this is not edifying.
Shalom
J.

 

[Behold]

i hold that water baptism is a Imperative-

@Johann

How far do you take that "imperative"?

Are you Catholic or JW, about it? Do you take it to the extreme and teach that "water washes away your sin", which is teaching that Water saves you?

Are you that far gone into the "water cult" theology?

 

[Johann]

paul called the galation church fools. because they claimed they began in the spirit 9through grace) but then tried to perfect their salvation (keep it) by works.

Does that confuse you?


People who have true living faith are saved, and they will produce fruit.


people who have a false or fake faith may appear to do works. But their faith is dead inspite of these works. because their faith (as in the jews) was in their works. Not in the grace of God.

People who have a false or fake faith were never regenerated in the first place.

 

[Johann]

Romans 6 does not refere to water baptism. there is no water in the passage. we were baptized into Christ. Not water.

You do not understand the word and how it is used in the greek.

Same with acts.. You do not understand the greek and how it is written.

I do not need to show you how you are boasting of your works. your boasting of your baptism.. it is clear for all to see

And your boasting in your knowledge of Koine Greek is plain for all to see as well-as far as I can tell-there are no "scholars" here.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

People who have a false or fake faith were never regenerated in the first place.

True

so they can not lose salvation if they never had it

 

[St. SteVen]

What knowledge is being referred to. Back then it was knowledge they didn't have such as we do today with the written word.

Has that knowledge has passed away?
When completeness comes; prophecy, tongues and knowledge will pass away,
What completeness would make knowledge pass away?
When will FULL knowledge appear?

1 Corinthians 13:8-10 NIV
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies,
they will cease; where there are tongues,
they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,
10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.

 

[Johann]

John 3:16 [with context]

3:15-18 "whoever" (John 3:15) "whoever" (John 3:16) "He who" (John 3:18) God's love is an invitation to all mankind (cf. Isa. 55:1-3; Ezek. 18:23,32; John 1:29; 3:16; 6:33,51; 2 Cor. 5:19; 1 Tim. 2:4; 4:10; Titus 2:11; 2 Pet. 3:9; 1 John 2:2; 4:14). The offer of salvation is universal, but its acceptance is not!