Do you believe Spirit baptism replaces water baptism?

[DJT_47]

That's water, and notice that it didn't save anyone. It didnt wash away anyone's sin.

What is "save"? What does the word mean? Saved from what? Acts2:38-47 is very clear. Upon belief such as the Jews had come to on the day of Pentecost,
1. They repented
2. Were baptized for the remission of sins
3. Received the gift of the Holy Ghost thereby
4. We're added to the body of Christ, his church, by the Lord

They were saved from their sins and thereby were cleansed and added to the body of Christ.

Acts 22:16

16And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

 

[atpollard]

And our founding fathers were smart enough to learn from history and insisted on separation of Church and State.

As long as we are on this bunny trail ... it is from the Baptists that America gets the concept of "Separation of Church and State". The Baptists were on the receiving end of state persecution from their founding and made Separation of Church and State a "Baptist Distinctive" in the 1600's. We believe that they corrupt each other when mixed and God ordained BOTH to "stay in their lanes".

So YAY, Baptists! :cool:

 

[Johann]

That's water, and notice that it didn't save anyone. It didnt wash away anyone's sin.

: BAPTISM

Baptism in the Jewish life

Baptism was a common rite among Jews of the first and second century A.D.
preparation for worship at the temple (i.e., cleansing rite)
the self baptism of proselytes

If someone from a Gentile background were to become a full child of Israel, he had to accomplish three tasks:

circumcision, if male
self-baptism by immersion, in the presence of three witnesses
sacrifice in the temple
an act of purification (cf. Leviticus 15)

In sectarian groups of first century Palestine, such as the Essenes, baptism was apparently a common, repeated experience. However, to mainline Judaism, John’s baptism of repentance would have been humiliating for a natural child of Abraham to undergo a Gentile acceptance ritual.

Some OT precedents can be cited for ceremonial washing.
as a symbol of spiritual cleansing (cf. Isa. 1:16)
as a regular ritual performed by the priests (cf. Exodus 19:10; Leviticus 16)

It should be noted that all other baptisms in first century Jewish culture were self-administered. Only John the Baptist's call for baptism involved him as an evaluator (cf. Matt. 3:7-12) and administrator of this act of repentance (cf. Matt. 3:6).

Baptism in the Church

Theological Purposes
forgiveness of sin ‒ Acts 2:38; 22:16
reception of Holy Spirit ‒ Acts 2:38 (Acts 10:44-48)
union with Christ ‒ Gal. 3:26-27
membership in church ‒ 1 Cor. 12:13
symbol of a spiritual turning ‒ 1 Pet. 3:20-21
symbol of a spiritual death and resurrection ‒ Rom. 6:1-5

Baptism was the early church’s opportunity for a person’s public profession (or confession). It was/is not the mechanism for salvation, but the occasion of the verbal affirmation of faith (i.e., probably, "Jesus is Lord," cf. Rom. 10:9-13). Remember the early church had no buildings and met in homes or often in secret places because of persecution.

Many commentators have asserted that 1 Peter is a baptismal sermon. Although this is possible, it is not the only option. It is true that Peter often uses baptism as a crucial act of faith (cf. Acts 2:38,41;10:47). However, it was/is not a sacramental event, but a faith event, symbolizing death, burial, and resurrection as the believer identifies with Christ’s own experience (cf. Rom. 6:7-9; Col. 2:12). The act is symbolic, not sacramental; the act is the occasion of profession, not the mechanism of salvation.

Baptism and Repentance in Acts 2:38

Curtis Vaughan, Commentary on Acts, has an interesting footnote on p. 28 related to Acts 2:38.

"The Greek word for ‘baptized’ is a third person imperative; the word for ‘repent,’ a second person imperative. This change from the more direct second person command to the less direct third person of ‘baptized’ implies that Peter’s basic primary demand is for repentance."

This follows the preaching emphasis of John the Baptist (cf. Matt. 3:2) and Jesus (cf. Matt. 4:17). Repentance seems to be a spiritual key and baptism is an outward expression of this spiritual change.

The New Testament knew nothing of unbaptized believers!

To the early church baptism was the public profession of faith. It is the occasion for the public confession of faith in Christ, not the mechanism for salvation! It needs to be remembered that baptism is not mentioned in Peter’s second sermon, though repentance is (cf. Acts 3:19; Luke 24:17). Baptism was an example set by Jesus (cf. Matt. 3:13-18). Baptism was commanded by Jesus (cf. Matt. 28:19). The modern question of the necessity of baptism for salvation is not addressed in the New Testament; all believers are expected to be baptized. However, one must also guard against a sacramental mechanicalism! Salvation is a faith issue, not a right-place, right-words, right-ritual act issue!

The exact mode of Christian baptism nor the administration is as important as the repentant, believing heart of the person being baptized. It is true that the etymology of the Greek VERB is "to dip" or "to plunge." But remember, etymology is not always a good way to denote current usage. The NT examples of baptism could be
immersion
pouring
sprinkling
For me, the time element is a more significant theological issue than mode.
For more historical information, see ABD, vol. 1, pp. 583-593 and Millard Erickson, Christian Theology, 2nd edition, pp. 1098-1114.

SPECIAL TOPIC: BAPTISM

Baptism -- Special Topic by Dr. Bob Utley, professor of hermeneutics (retired).

www.freebiblecommentary.org

 

[Behold]

Why is it so many miss this?

Those who "miss it" read the verse like this..

"We are saving ourselves, by our works, and faith is not the Justification, its just the excuse to be self righteous".

 

[Behold]

: BAPTISM

Baptism in the Jewish life

SPECIAL TOPIC: BAPTISM

Baptism -- Special Topic by Dr. Bob Utley, professor of hermeneutics (retired).

www.freebiblecommentary.org

In the OT, you have the water baptism of John the Baptist. and this was to repent of sin, and be immersed.
This didnt save anyone, but it was a part of the process of the OT Covenant.
Jesus was also water baptized by John, and it also didnt save The Christ., but He had to "fulfill all law" so that His Sacrifice was complete.

In Acts 2, you have Peter, who only has the "John the Baptist, come and repent and get wet", as his understanding that he connects to what He is preaching.
If you notice... He himself didn't get water baptized on the "day of Pentecost"., but he preached water that day.

Later, Years later, Jesus called Paul to be the "chosen vessel" who gave the body of Christ the "Gospel of the Grace of God".
Peter, didn't preach this GOSPEL, in Acts2, because He didn't know it.

In Acts 15, we find that all the apostle joined Paul, and from that meeting all were on the same page, theologically.

 

[Behold]

What is "save"?

To be saved it to be rescued.
To be saved, in the context of CHRISTianity, is to be the recipient of what the Savior provides.

What does He provide?

He provided His Body and His Blood and His Death, and His Resurrection.

This is "Salvation".

John 14:6

 

[Johann]

Its interesting to note that one of the reasons you get banned on other forums, is for this RELENTLESS "cut and past", that you do.

Prove the post wrong-you can't

Peter, didn't preach this GOSPEL, in Acts2, because He didn't know it.

Peter didn't KNOW or preach the gospel?!-in Acts 2!

2:14 "Peter" Just think, of all the disciples, Peter was the one to preach the first Christian sermon!

The one who denied knowing Jesus three times (cf. Luke 23)! Peter's change from cowardice and denial to boldness and spiritual insight is another evidence that the age of the Spirit had dawned with life-changing power.

This is his first recorded sermon in Acts. It shows us the content and emphasis of the preaching of the Apostles. These apostolic sermons form an important part of Acts.



"with the eleven" This shows two things:

Peter is the spokesman, but still part of the Apostolic group. He does not speak alone or on his own authority. The Spirit speaks uniquely through this whole group of called, eyewitnesses.

Care to explain that again?

Act 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Act 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Act 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Act 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Act 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Act 2:25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
Act 2:26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
Act 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Act 2:28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
The Fellowship of the Believers
Act 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Act 2:43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Act 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.


J.

 

[Behold]

Peter didn't KNOW or preach the gospel?!-in Acts 2!

Paul said this..

""""But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.... I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ."""


Notice that Paul came into this revelation after He was called by Jesus, to be a "chosen vessel" to deliver the Gospel and the Church doctrine, to the "GENTILES", in the "TIME of the GENTILES", as Paul is the "Apostle to the Gentiles".

Peter, did not have this revelation in Acts 2.

This is why in Acts 10, ... God had to show PETER that GENTILES could be Saved, as Peter didnt even know it in Acts 10, that is a full decade after Jesus went back to Heaven.

This is why Paul says that the Gospel of the Grace of God... is : "MY Gospel".. and he said this 3x in the New Testament.

Final analysis?

When you dont know something, you can't teach it or preach it.
And PETER in Acts 2, didn't have the Revelation that Paul was given by Christ, much later.
If Peter had this revelation in Acts 2, then he would have known that GENTILES could be saved, and not JUST JEWS.

Later, in Acts 10, God revealed some of the "Gospel" to Peter.
And in Acts 15, Paul fully = explained it to him.

 

[atpollard]

Romans 2:11

Did God treat the Israelites and Egyptians equally?

"I do not think it means what you think it means." - Inigo Montoya

 

[Behold]

Did God treat the Israelites and Egyptians equally?

"I do not think it means what you think it means." - Inigo Montoya

using fictional characters as your proof text?

Why dont you try using Superman or maybe, The Wizard of Oz, next time, @atpollard .

As that will be just as ineffective.

 

[ChristisGod]

In the OT, you have the water baptism of John the Baptist. and this was to repent of sin, and be immersed.
This didnt save anyone, but it was a part of the process of the OT Covenant.
Jesus was also water baptized by John, and it also didnt save The Christ., but He had to "fulfill all law" so that His Sacrifice was complete.

In Acts 2, you have Peter, who only has the "John the Baptist, come and repent and get wet", as his understanding that he connects to what He is preaching.
If you notice... He himself didn't get water baptized on the "day of Pentecost"., but he preached water that day.

Later, Years later, Jesus called Paul to be the "chosen vessel" who gave the body of Christ the "Gospel of the Grace of God".
Peter, didn't preach this GOSPEL, in Acts2, because He didn't know it.

In Acts 15, we find that all the apostle joined Paul, and from that meeting all were on the same page, theologically.

I really appreciate that you can respond in your own words from your own study of scripture and not cut n paste to defend your beliefs. Thanks!

 

[atpollard]

using fictional characters as your proof text?

Why dont you try using Superman or maybe, The Wizard of Oz, next time, @atpollard .

As that will be just as ineffective.

Your evasion of the question referencing all of Exodus and Romans 9 noted.
You could even have chosen to compare Modern Israel and Egypt if you felt so inclined.

Since you are incapable of anything above "scripture pong", here is your "proof text" ... Romans 9:13

 

[Behold]

Wow!
Personally-I think you have lost your marbles!

The bible is a book of progressive revelation.

God didnt stop in Acts 2:38 and Paul didn't stop in Romans 7.
Heretics always do.

Really.<

God does not change, and Jesus is always the same, but, the way that God deals with Man, has changed and continues to change.
Did you notice that there is a Old Testament and a New?
And a Old Covenant and a NEW?

= "progressive revelation"....

A.) Students of the bible are learning this progressive revelation.

Real Teachers of the word, are given by God so that the students can all become this..

Philippians 2:2

To bring the BELIEVERS, the truly born again, into "One mind" "one Faith".

The Devil, tries to keep the believers away from the "one mind" "one Faith".

This is what you see happening on a FORUM.

You see "confusion" and "well, you believe that and i was taught this"...

See that?
That is = "where there is envy and confusion, there is every EVIL WORK" and God knows that on a Forum, you find that there are people who teach against the Cross and against the Grace of God.
That's the Devil's work, @Johann

How to spot these dark lights?. Luke 11:35

Just like this....

= They always want to add themselves, their self effort, unto the Cross, instead of giving Christ alone all the Credit due Him ALONE for saving us and keeping us saved.

 

[Johann]

Your evasion of the question referencing all of Exodus and Romans 9 noted.
You could even have chosen to compare Modern Israel and Egypt if you felt so inclined.
Instead you chose to HIDE from the question by engaging in insult and personal attack.

Since you are incapable of anything above "scripture pong", here is your "proof text" ... Romans 9:13

I'm going to say it-the doctrine of election is all from God-it is throughout Scriptures-and I agree-@Behold cannot defend his teaching without resorting to ad hominems.

I getting tired with all this insulting lingo-it's getting to me.
Shalom
J.

 

[Behold]

I'm going to say it-the doctrine of election i

A heretic created the "doctrine of Election".

The Cross denies this cult teaching, according to John 3:16

Here are a few things for you to realize @Johann

John Calvin didnt compose, write, or authorize, the New Testament.

God is not a Calvinist
Jesus is not a Calvinist
Paul the Apostle is not a Calvinist.

CHRISTianity, is not a Calvinist.

A.) Believe it.

 

[Johann]

The bible is a book of progressive revelation.

God didnt stop in Acts 2:38 and Paul didn't stop in Romans 7.
Heretics always do.

Really.<

God does not change, and Jesus is always the same, but, the way that God deals with Man, has changed and continues to change.
Did you notice that there is a Old Testament and a New?
And a Old Covenant and a NEW?

= "progressive revelation"....

A.) Students of the bible are learning this progressive revelation.

Real Teachers of the word, are given by God so that the students can all become this..

Philippians 2:2

To bring the BELIEVERS, the truly born again, into "One mind" "one Faith".

The Devil, tries to keep the believers away from the "one mind" "one Faith".

This is what you see happening on a FORUM.

You see "confusion" and "well, you believe that and i was taught this"...

See that?
That is = "where there is envy and confusion, there is every EVIL WORK" and God knows that on a Forum, you find that there are people who teach against the Cross and against the Grace of God.
That's the Devil's work, @Johann

How to spot these dark lights?. Luke 11:35

Just like this....

= They always want to add themselves, their self effort, unto the Cross, instead of giving Christ alone all the Credit due Him ALONE for saving us and keeping us saved.

You are a master in circular reasoning.

A heretic created the "doctrine of Election".

The Cross denies this cult teaching, according to John 3:16

Here are a few things for you to realize @Johann

John Calvin didnt compose, write, or authorize, the New Testament.

God is not a Calvinist
Jesus is not a Calvinist
Paul the Apostle is not a Calvinist.

CHRISTianity, is not a Calvinist.

A.) Believe it.

And yet the doctrine of election is in Scripture-you are in denial of some very important Imperatives-was I referring to Calvin?

The doctrine of election is right there-you can't miss it.

 

[Behold]

You are a master in circular reasoning.

Truth sounds like that to people who are having trouble believing it.

But, i do appreciate that your questions, tho often laced with a carnal insult, open a door for me to share more Truth with readers here who are real students of the BIBLE and not some branch of someone's theology that they cut and paste.

And yet the doctrine of election is in Scripture-you are in denial of some very important Imperatives-was I referring to Calvin?

"doctrine of Election"

That's Calvinspeak.

Listen...

There is "elect"
There is "pre-destined"
There is "foreknowledge"

John Calvinism took those and reinvented them as Hyper Calvinism.
Its a mind trap.
Very difficult to leave this dark theology, once it has you under its Spell.

Or as Paul said.. "WHO has BEWITCHED YOU" so that you "NO LONGER OBEY THE TRUTH".

That's the question that Calvinists have to answer, and will never be able to understand.

The doctrine of election is right there-you can't miss it.

Yes, i can Spot Calvin in you, ... on Forums, ... in Pulpits... in your Videos, and in your commentaries.

Its easy.

 

[Johann]

Truth sounds like that to people who are having trouble believing it.

But, i do appreciate that your questions, tho often laced with a carnal insult, open a door for me to share more Truth with readers here who are real students of the BIBLE and not some branch of someone's theology that they cut and paste.




"doctrine of Election"

That's Calvinspeak.

Listen...

There is "elect"
There is "pre-destined"
There is "foreknowledge"

John Calvinism took those and reinvented them as Hyper Calvinism.
Its a mind trap.
Very difficult to leave this dark theology, once it has you under its Spell.

Or as Paul said.. "WHO has BEWITCHED YOU" so that you "NO LONGER OBEY THE TRUTH".

That's the question that Calvinists have to answer, and will never be able to understand.





Yes, i can Spot Calvin in you, ... on Forums, ... in Pulpits... in your Videos, and in your commentaries.

Its easy.

I see and view you as a wolf in sheep's clothing-roaming -unhinged-on this Forum.
You have some serious issues-known only to you-but I have discernment.

 

[Behold]

I see and view you as a wolf in sheep's clothing

Rest assured that God doesn't.

And i appreciate that you actually posted something that isn't "cut and paste"

See, you can do it.

 

[St. SteVen]

The answer is simple and found below in Acts 8. The apostles prayed that they MIGHT (not would) receive the Holy Ghost and then laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Ghost.So it required the laying on of the apostle's hands that the MANIFISTATION of the Spirit might happen, the GIFTS, of the Spirit. This says 2 things: 1. the manifestation of the Holy Spirit required the laying on of the apostle's hands, and 2. It wasn't automatic that everyone would for certain receive a gift, hence the word "might" was used.

Was the laying on of the Apostles hands required before chapter eight?
Appears that the Apostles were sent to address a problem that had not previously occurred.
Was the laying on of the Apostles hands required in Acts chapter ten, at the house of Cornelius?