We are judged by works, not by faith

[Gottservant]

All I know is, if we are inspired by Christ but have no works, something is sus (and it could be the Devil).

(Is it, the Devil? That stops you from working?)

 

[dad]

Saved senseless. That's a new one. I like it. The gospel of the sensible and the senseless. Has that nice double hearted ring to it.

That's what the bible says about the prodigal son.
17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
That has to do with learning from God. If you were not claiming to be perfect already you would know that. Instead, you try and call sons that learn stuff double minded in a flagrant violation of the spirit and letter of the text.

.. since you will never let your works get anywhere near your salvation, then it's pretty much just lip service.

Say what? Jesus died for my salvation, how would I let works get near that?

And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Calling and election are not eternal life. To ensure rewards and hearing from God about our right calling etc it is important to have knowledge of Him. Doing these things will help us not to fall of course. NOT fall from salvation but fall from where we should be in life and our walk with Him.

Me and Peter are pals on this one. Your exclusion from it is no biggy to me. I never was one for trying to get everybody to be my friend.

Who would want to be friends with someone perfect? (thinks he is perfect)

Man, you do preach a killer gospel don't you? Whew. "Lord! Kill that brother now! Quick! Before he makes us all look bad! Man, some brothers just don't know when to quit! I've tried telling him time and time again. Luke brother dude, you need to at least try and pick and choose when and where!"

Paul ordered the guy delivered to Satan to die. Not me. That shows some sins are unto death. (that the spirit will live) You try to make it sound like God is unjust in chastising us as is appropriate.

We know that whosoever is born of God is not sinning; but he that is begotten of God is keeping himself, and that wicked one is not touching him.

As explained that means unsaved and given over to sin. Not trespassing against a brother or some such

Not true at all! I have learned many great things from you.

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."

How would mr perfect fail?

By beginning perfect in Christ as newborn babes of God, and staying and growing that way.

Total pretension then. OK

As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

Amen. Try the best you can. 'He hath done what he could'

 

[dad]

All I know is, if we are inspired by Christ but have no works, something is sus (and it could be the Devil).

(Is it, the Devil? That stops you from working?)

Paul worked and was still wretched. What stops some people from assuming that still imperfect brethren (as all are) have stopped working? Realizing work is not what saves us does not mean we don't work like hec after we are saved out of love and gratitude. The work of Christ is what is making us perfect. Those who claim their works both saved them and keep them saved and that they are sinless saints are wrong.

 

[Gottservant]

Just for your edification: a mature Christian, makes work a priority

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yes, until you begin to judge believers by their works, when you think they are just a bit wee too much for your liking.

There are those that do preach a consistent gospel of being saved and justified, without any works ever having anything to do with it at all. I can at least respect the integrity of it.

But then there are the pretenders, that say workless justification only goes so far, which is when our justification can be judged by our works.

I just preach we are judged and justified by our works period, like James 2. That would be at any given time in my book. I just dispense with all the personal lines of sinning we may draw for ourselves, and then judge others by that.

Does you church have a sin committee? What line is drawn on sinning, when our Christianity must be judged by our works? Such as the amount of sin in general? The type of sin? Frequency? Public Exposure? It should be an interesting case of grand judgement by great committee rule.

Are they like the earthly version of the 12 elders around the throne?

Well as I do not know at all whom you speak of in this, I can't answer to that. But in my 49 years of walking with the Lord all my preachers and teachers have said we are justified by faith alone and then produce the good works that justify our justification by faith alone.

First we are made righteous and just, then we can live righteous and just. I do not believe in a faith that does not produce works. True faith produces good wortks as Paul said in Eph. 2.

James wrote this:

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

But yet Paul said this:

Romans 4

King James Version

​

4 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Now we know Scripture does notr contradict itself. so you have to admit Paul is lying or that you misunderstand the context of what both are writing about.

 

[Ghada]

YOu are correct. Because the Holy spirit lives inside of us we no longer "HAVE" to sin.

Exactly. Good work.

but we do and as John wrote:

Blew it. Just can't help yourself. All you had to do to actually preach the gospel of the Bible, was say, But if we do.

You just cannot frame to pronounce it right.

Your gospel of sinning while and after being converted, is your Christianity of sinning less. It's not the perfect conversion of Jesus Christ by whole heartedly repenting at once of sinning itself.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God,

As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

You teach receiving Christ wile sinning, and so you teach walking with Christ while sinning.

You've never known what it is to now all at once have all things new of God, and nothing of the devil remaining in you nor through you.

Do you?

That's why you can't even frame to teach not having at least some lust and sinning to do. Yes, you do lust and sin. Not me. The only 'we' here is you and your fellow Christian sinners.

Do you really think that Jesus would demand us to forgive constantly if our Father in heaven first does it?

Of course. That's why you Christians are always forgiving and being forgiven, because your still always sinning.

Try repenting of sinning itself, and see what Christ can do for you. Just say it to yourself. See how it feels. Just set aside the unbelief for one second and see what happens to your heart and mind.

I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

 

[Ghada]

First we are made righteous and just, then we can live righteous and just.

Once again, just when we look for the the Bible gospel, you give your own version. You just couldn't frame to pronounce it right, and say, "We are made righteous and just, and so we are living righteous and just."

Talking about what we can do, that we are not doing, is exactly the same as talking about our faith, without works.

James 2

On the one hand, you tell yourselves we can do it. On the other hand you tell each other and everyone else we can't do it, because we do sin. So you've been telling yourselves all these years you can do, but you don't do and say so. Hasn't anyone ever asked you why you preach you can do, but then you don't do because you can't do? What do you tell them? They have to 'grow' in knowledge of the 'word'? Just hang around long enough with faith, until they 'get it'?

Look, you've got your own Christian religion of sinning before, during, and after your conversion. And because it's less now I'm quite sure you have a great home-caring, neighborly, and church-oriented social life. Enjoy it while you got it. Dittoes the home-caring neighborly Buddhists, Muslims, and non-professing sinners of any nation.

Now we know Scripture does notr contradict itself. so you have to admit Paul is lying or that you misunderstand the context of what both are writing about.

Same answer. No. No matter how badly it is for you to justify your doctrine and yourself by numbers, I'm not a proselyte candidate for you. I mean, you're joking right? There at least has to be some measure of believability and respect for someone to be converted by them.

I've offered the the reconciliation of Paul and James, and you don't even acknowledge it.

It's an old tired game you're playing. You see, I don't personally care if you agree with me or not. It doesn't matter to me.

 

[Ghada]

Realizing we are still on the planet for awhile

Good humanism. Only human. Living in a real world of real sinners and real sinning. Been there and done that. I'm talking about the kingdom of Christ not of this world. Not about Christianity among the religions of the world.

Paul did what he didn't want to do and disliked it. Get in line. Pretending you are perfect is not the answer.

Get in line with double hearted sinning for life? No thanks.

You don't seriously think you can proselyte me to your half way house gospel do you? I mean, there has to be at least a modicum of respect to be converted by someone else.

Judgment begins at the house of God,

True. The doers of unrighteousness on bench pews get cut off first, before the unrighteous not naming the name of Christ.

That means they are being made perfect not that they already are.

As I said. You don't believe in being born again in this life as the newborn Jesus.

Sinning less is not being made perfect. It's being made less of a sinner your own imperfect partially repentant will.

 

[Ghada]

OK lurkers here it is. The guy just claimed that any believer that trespasses is a child of the devil!

You actually acknowledge accurately what I teach. Thank you. Now, if the verse offends you, then that's between you and Bible. However, it's between you and me too, because I own what I teach.

Being born of the spirit does not mean the sinless nirvana instant perfection you imagine.

Now mocking the pure newborn babes in Christ with all things of God, as with the babe Jesus.

As explained many times it means God is in us and working on us.

To sin less than before? That's your gospel. Not mine.

When Paul says to let our moderation be made known to everyone, he's not talking about our sinning.

To be saved we repent. Then we are saved.

Repent of dead works unto salvation? Good preaching bro! That's Bible.

After that brothers still fall, and have trespasses at times.

Just can't finish it though. Just can't help yourself from drawing back to the same old moderately sinning gospel. Now, if you had just said after that brothers, we may still fall, and we could have trespasses at times. Then you would be still preaching the Bible gospel.

Like whack a mole, we need to keep on whacking anything that is not of God. He helps us do that.

Now, you see, this really is where your gospel differs from that of the Bible. That mole you're speaking of is the lust in your heart you have never been purged of, since you've never wholly repenting of sinning, but only in part.

Otherwise, you would know what it is to be wholly newborn and of God, rather than mocking it.

Jesus says whack temptation. You say whack the matt after falling.

Learn the difference between being a servant of sin, and being a son of God that requires correction.

How so?

Your pretense of perfection is not sweet smelling.

For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

 

[Ghada]

No. Brothers that trespass are not evil.

Not yours. Jesus' brethren are doing the will of the Father.

Yes His son helps us do all the good works we do.

Ok. I'll accept your testimony. So, Who's helping you do all the sinful works you do?

 

[dad]

Good humanism. Only human. Living in a real world of real sinners and real sinning. Been there and done that. I'm talking about the kingdom of Christ not of this world. Not about Christianity among the religions of the world.

Off tangent blather

Get in line with double hearted sinning for life? No thanks.

More pretense of sinless perfection. Whom the Lord loves He chastens. You thought they were chastened for being perfect?

You don't seriously think you can proselyte me to your half way house gospel do you? I mean, there has to be at least a modicum of respect to be converted by someone else.

Getting people to be honest is a struggle.

As I said. You don't believe in being born again in this life as the newborn Jesus.

I believe in the way He spoke about and does. That way leaves us still in need of Him working in us, correcting us etc. Your idea that you reached sinless perfection the moment you walked the aisle (or whatever) is not in the bible.

Sinning less is not being made perfect. It's being made less of a sinner your own imperfect partially repentant will.

Yes, the road to being made better means, well, we are made better. (as opposed to being perfect already)

 

[dad]

Not yours. Jesus' brethren are doing the will of the Father.

Jesus said brethren are trespassing against us often! Overruled.

Ok. I'll accept your testimony. So, Who's helping you do all the sinful works you do?

His correction in believers means they do a lot better. He helps us. Those who think they don't need help look to their own righteousness and works and goodness.

 

[dad]

You actually acknowledge accurately what I teach. Thank you. Now, if the verse offends you, then that's between you and Bible. However, it's between you and me too, because I own what I teach.

What verse?

Now mocking the pure newborn babes in Christ with all things of God, as with the babe Jesus.

Babies are pure, but if they think their diapers are clean all the time they aren't fooling anyone.

To sin less than before? That's your gospel. Not mine.

No, your is not that you have Him working on you, it is that you think you have arrived in some sort of sinless nirvana already that is only maintained by your wonderfulness and perfection.

When Paul says to let our moderation be made known to everyone, he's not talking about our sinning.

Someone said it was? However, if someone is sex addicted and gluttonous and engaging in excesses etc etc that is sin.

Repent of dead works unto salvation? Good preaching bro! That's Bible.

The issue here is after people are saved and already repented. You think if they speed or litter or fail to pay all their taxes that they are children of the devil.

Just can't finish it though. Just can't help yourself from drawing back to the same old moderately sinning gospel. Now, if you had just said after that brothers, we may still fall, and we could have trespasses at times. Then you would be still preaching the Bible gospel.

Failing is part of life. Better to fail with Him in us than to fail without Him. Better to fail and get back up than to pretend we are sinless little perfect saints.

That mole you're speaking of is the lust in your heart you have never been purged of, since you've never wholly repenting of sinning, but only in part.

The little mistakes I alluded to that believers make are not because they were never saved. They are after they are saved. Any brother that sins against you is saved or they are not a brother!

Jesus says whack temptation. You say whack the matt after falling.

You say you need no mat because you are perfect and could never fall and never need to get back up or be forgiven. You are not amoung those that He chastens then, of course. Since He chastens all He loves and who come to Him, what is wrong with this picture?

For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

That has what to do with your pretense of being perfect?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Exactly. Good work.



Blew it. Just can't help yourself. All you had to do to actually preach the gospel of the Bible, was say, But if we do.

You just cannot frame to pronounce it right.

Your gospel of sinning while and after being converted, is your Christianity of sinning less. It's not the perfect conversion of Jesus Christ by whole heartedly repenting at once of sinning itself.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God,

As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

You teach receiving Christ wile sinning, and so you teach walking with Christ while sinning.

You've never known what it is to now all at once have all things new of God, and nothing of the devil remaining in you nor through you.

Do you?

That's why you can't even frame to teach not having at least some lust and sinning to do. Yes, you do lust and sin. Not me. The only 'we' here is you and your fellow Christian sinners.

Of course. That's why you Christians are always forgiving and being forgiven, because your still always sinning.

Try repenting of sinning itself, and see what Christ can do for you. Just say it to yourself. See how it feels. Just set aside the unbelief for one second and see what happens to your heart and mind.

I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

And your gospewl of living a sinlessly perfect life is a false gospel.

I rely on Scripture you rely on your opinion of Scripture.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Once again, just when we look for the the Bible gospel, you give your own version. You just couldn't frame to pronounce it right, and say, "We are made righteous and just, and so we are living righteous and just."

Talking about what we can do, that we are not doing, is exactly the same as talking about our faith, without works.

Well it is just you and a few others who have been deceived by doctrine of demons who believe you no longer commit any sin in thought word or deed.

I would love to read your mind and see how you justify your sins to not have to call them sin.

 

[Gottservant]

The important thing, is that we are judged by our works meaningfully. We are not judged on what we could not do, but what we could (that is, what we had peace about). We are not judged on how much we could do, but how much of the inspiration we had, did we use. This is the power of God's Grace, that He does not conflate these two things (peace and inspiration), but holds them at arm's length, as it were, that we can see and follow through on what we see. Peace and inspiration contrasted, is a mature contrast.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The important thing, is that we are judged by our works meaningfully. We are not judged on what we could not do, but what we could (that is, what we had peace about). We are not judged on how much we could do, but how much of the inspiration we had, did we use. This is the power of God's Grace, that He does not conflate these two things (peace and inspiration), but holds them at arm's length, as it were, that we can see and follow through on what we see. Peace and inspiration contrasted, is a mature contrast.

Actually, according to Scripture, believers are only jujdged by what they did in the name of Jesus (or religious works, or good works, whatever name one wishes to tag them with)

If they were not done according to the Spirit, they are considered wood hay and stubble.

If they are done according to Ephesians 2:10 and are the works god foreordained one should walk in, they are gold silver and precious stones. they are never judged to determine our righteousness or salvation, for those are given by Jesus to us on the basis of faith and grace, but works are judged to determine our level of crowns.

 

[amigo de christo]

All I know is, if we are inspired by Christ but have no works, something is sus (and it could be the Devil).

(Is it, the Devil? That stops you from working?)

If we are inspired by CHRIST yet have no works ...................WE AINT INSPIRED BY CHRIST now are we .
Faith without works is dead . Justified soley by faith in JESUS CHRIST . now that be a fact .
ITS just if one lips the name and claims to believe on him and yet walks in darkness loving sin , THEY AINT OF HIM AT ALL .
its but lip service and dead faith .
FOR A true lamb HAS been born again from above . HE WORKETH in us that which is well pleasing in his SIGHT .
Heed the Spirit and not the flesh . JUSTIFIED SOLEY by FAITH IN CHRIST . now that is a fact . but as i said
if we love sin we DO NOT KNOW HIM and its all dead faith , we have decieved ourselves .

 

[amigo de christo]

All I know is, if we are inspired by Christ but have no works, something is sus (and it could be the Devil).

(Is it, the Devil? That stops you from working?)

There is a need to explain something else my friend .
Allow me to bring us a scenario .
Now pay close attention to it , i bet you might just agree with this .
There once was a man who lived on a farm . He went one day
to turn on his shower but no water came out .
he went out to water the animals but no water came out .
So along comes a man and says , Hey my friend i see you have a plumbing problem .
You need to call JOSE GARCIA . HE can fix your plumbing .
So the man opens up a phone book . He sees Jose garcia . then he sees another jose garcia
and another . the list of jose garcia is long.
DO YOU SEE the PROBLEM YET MY FRIEND . There were many names with the same name
BUT ONLY ONE OFTHEM IS GONNA BE ABLE TO FIX THE PLUMBING PROBLEM . the other joses CANNOT .
NOW go to and behold the churches .
For many preach the name OF JESUS CHRIST and yet seem to preach ANOTHER JESUS . ps that one cannot save them .
NOW let us learn that well .
FOR IF THE jesus christ a man comes preaching CONTRADICTS the BIBLE , the bibical one , seemeth to embrace sins
etc , YEAH IT AINT JESUS and OOOPSY THEY AINT SAVE EITHER . many follow another jesus . name only my friend
name only .

 

[Ghada]

I believe in the way He spoke about and does. That way leaves us still in need of Him working in us, correcting us etc. Your idea that you reached sinless perfection the moment you walked the aisle (or whatever) is not in the bible.

The new birth of God to become as Jesus is, is not for you then. Which is obvious since you mock it.

Yes, the road to being made better means, well, we are made better. (as opposed to being perfect already)

Making yourself better at sinning less is fine for Christian religion, not for being resurrected unto life.

Jesus said brethren are trespassing against us often! Overruled.

Yes, obviously in your churches.

Jesus said if a brother sins, you say when. One is the kingdom of Christ, and the other is your churches.

Babies are pure, but if they think their diapers are clean all the time they aren't fooling anyone.

Since you reject ever being newborn pure and sinless in Christ, then your still wearing the same old filthy diapers. Now as a Christian. They're no doubt quite white on the outside now.

The issue here is after people are saved and already repented. You think if they speed or litter or fail to pay all their taxes that they are children of the devil.

Once again. What are these sins you talk about still doing?

Failing is part of life.

Your life. You reject 2 Peter 1 in order not to fall.

Better to fail with Him in us

Jesus doesn't fall nor fail with you, nor in you. Your Christ is the failure, not Jesus Christ.

The little mistakes I alluded to that believers make are not because they were never saved.

Once again. What sins are these you keep claiming.

Things are finally winding down with you. You have no new twists of the Bible to offer.