Does Christian Universalism sidestep the justice of God?

[face2face]

---- NOTICE -----

This topic was relocated to "the appropriate forum". ????
Not my doing. (Grr...)

So, Christian Universalism has been declared as "unorthodox" now?
The religious equivalent of racial segregation and bigotry.


@Nancy @GRACE ambassador

Your dogma falls outside of the inspired Word - unless you are willing to declare a divine vision, or some form of spiritual enlightment you will stay here. We have tested your spirit through many Scriptures and failed all of them.
F2F

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

So you don't believe the believers at Corinth obeyed John 3:16-18?
Your response hasn't come across in a good light.
F2F

it is because you don't understand what I have written

 

[face2face]

I don't see any connection between what Paul is saying, and John 3:16-18

The latter is the Gospel for ALL lost sinners, who, IF they were to accept Jesus Christ as their Saviour, will have eternal life, and not be condemned with those who reject this Gospel.

So you believe in election then? Those saved will have been elected by the foreknowledge of God? No?
Please explain.

 

[face2face]

it is because you don't understand what I have written

Yes, I read your post thoroughly.

 

[Patrick1966]

---- NOTICE -----

This topic was relocated to "the appropriate forum". ????
Not my doing. (Grr...)

So, Christian Universalism has been declared as "unorthodox" now?
The religious equivalent of racial segregation and bigotry.


@Nancy @GRACE ambassador @Wynona

Yes, any belief system that claims that Jesus doesn't torture people forever is unorthodox and heretical.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Those saved will have been elected by the foreknowledge of God?

no, not in the Bible!

 

[face2face]

@ByGraceThroughFaith

The word election signifies "selection." as per 1 Thess. 1:4

4 For we know, brothers and sisters loved by God, that he has chosen you, 5 because our gospel came to you not simply with words but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and deep conviction. You know how we lived among you for your sake.

God has selected those in Christ through the Gospel invitation yes?

“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God. 'Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.John 6:44

And also confirmed by Acts 15:14.

Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

Again, I have highlighted with red to show you the continuation of thought.

God has chosen you
The Apostles were called also
You can only come to God if He draws you
He is taking a people out of the Gentiles for the purpose of manifesting His name

So, I'm still unsure how you remove all these facts with what you believe. Yes, Jesus sacrifice covers and provide forgiveness to all who would obey the Gospel however not all will do so.

F2F

 

[face2face]

no, not in the Bible!

So are you saying God does not foreknow the saved?
These are vague responses.
F2F

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

So are you saying God does not foreknow the saved?
These are vague responses.
F2F

I would like to continue discussing this with you or anyone else. but this is not the right thread. start a new one and I will join

 

[face2face]

Yes, any belief system that claims that Jesus doesn't torture people forever is unorthodox and heretical.

When the knowledge of rejection is felt there will be torment that is for sure.

 

[face2face]

I would like to continue discussing this with you or anyone else. but this is not the right thread. start a new one and I will join

It's actually on topic as we are dealing with the Justice of God and how it will be applied at the Judgement. All good though.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

It's actually on topic as we are dealing with the Justice of God and how it will be applied at the Judgement. All good though.

no, it is not. it is about the heresy of "Universalism"

 

[quietthinker]

Admit to wanting this thread deleted.
Having it moved was all they could muster, which I guess is something!
"we" are those who understand the error you promote.
Hope that helps!
F2F

'we' is who specifically?.....and what is my error?

 

[St. SteVen]

face2face said:
Admit to wanting this thread deleted.
Having it moved was all they could muster, which I guess is something!
"we" are those who understand the error you promote.
Hope that helps!
F2F

'we' is who specifically?.....and what is my error?

Thought I saw a reply from Face2Face to this earlier. Was it deleted?
Seems to be a campaign going on here.

 

[St. SteVen]

Your dogma falls outside of the inspired Word - unless you are willing to declare a divine vision, or some form of spiritual enlightment you will stay here. We have tested your spirit through many Scriptures and failed all of them.
F2F

On what authority do you declare "you will stay here." ???
And who is the "we" that have supposedly "tested" my spirit?

 

[St. SteVen]

... unless you are willing to declare a divine vision, or some form of spiritual enlightment you will stay here.

I'm pretty sure that even a "divine vision, or some form of spiritual enlightenment" would not be enough to quell your hatred of me.
Correct me if I am wrong.

Not sure if this counts, but a family situation compelled me to examine my belief on hell.
What I discovered led to me question the standard doctrine on the subject.
I could no longer support a doctrine that called for finite souls to suffer infinite punishment.
Whether that be "a divine vision, or some form of spiritual enlightenment", is not clear.
Probably the later. Pretty sure you won't be convinced. Even though you indicated that you would.
Can you be trusted? Seems not.

 

[face2face]

In terms of the validitity of this OP we can safely say it was a fizzer.

On what authority do you declare "you will stay here." ???
And who is the "we" that have supposedly "tested" my spirit?

So many posts with so many unanswered questions - feel free to go back over all of them---take your time though.
F2F

 

[face2face]

I'm pretty sure that even a "divine vision, or some form of spiritual enlightenment" would not be enough to quell your hatred of me.
Correct me if I am wrong.

Nice try in making it personal SteVe.
Sometimes it takes a little longer to work a person out, their beliefs and intentions, but we got there in the end.

Not sure if this counts, but a family situation compelled me to examine my belief on hell.
What I discovered led to me question the standard doctrine on the subject.
I could no longer support a doctrine that called for finite souls to suffer infinite punishment.

And I agree with you on this belief! - it can be easily proven from the Bible that there is not such place of eternal torment.

Whether that be "a divine vision, or some form of spiritual enlightenment", is not clear.
Probably the later. Pretty sure you won't be convinced. Even though you indicated that you would.
Can you be trusted? Seems not.

Ditto.

You have a free mind which has its benefits when looking at difficult subjects but our minds must conform to the Power of God's Gospel, now defining that Gospel is essential as its an intelligible Gospel, something which can be known, fully. If you don't believe in the literal fiery place commonly called Hell then this should take you deeper in to truth not further away from it.

F2F

 

[face2face]

'we' is who specifically?.....and what is my error?

Apocatastasis commonly called Universalism.

 

[quietthinker]

Apocatastasis commonly called Universalism.

Apocatastasis commonly called Universalism.

I can only assume you have not heard ie, not understood my reply to your question, post #158