Does Christian Universalism sidestep the justice of God?

[St. SteVen]

No, I've been causing trouble for YEARS!

View attachment 35825

You did come highly recommended. - LOL

Did you hear about the couple that had such a bad marriage that their license was revoked? - LOL

 

[face2face]

It saddens me to say that most people are disinterested in God. We must be thankful that God allowed us to know the truth. We (you and I) should also avoid divisive bickering. :)

True enough. I've actually enjoyed pulling this subject apart, as it's not one you come across often. Apocatastasis holds a certain appeal for those on the fringe, I get it! But sadly its based entirely in human thought. Some men's minds are so free it's difficult for them to allow their thoughts and meditations to be limited by what the gospel reveals to us of the tender mercy of God. Quiet and SteVen are firmly in this category and as we are seeing, there are some questions too hard to answer. Like I said, I've enjoyed watching truth triumph again!
F2F

 

[Patrick1966]

True enough. I've actually enjoyed pulling this subject apart, as it's not one you come across often. Apocatastasis holds a certain appeal for those on the fringe, I get it! But sadly its based entirely in human thought. Some men's minds are so free it's difficult for them to allow their thoughts and meditations to be limited by what the gospel reveals to us of the tender mercy of God. Quiet and SteVen are firmly in this category and as we are seeing, there are some questions too hard to answer. Like I said, I've enjoyed watching truth triumph again!
F2F

I don't share the belief that Jesus throws people away. As 1 Corinthians 15 states, Jesus must rule until all opposed to him go to serve him. Even Satan will be converted.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Most English translations DO have contradictions due to erroneous translations, particularly, the King James Version.

give some examples here

 

[face2face]

I don't share the belief that Jesus throws people away. As 1 Corinthians 15 states, Jesus must rule until all opposed to him go to serve him. Even Satan will be converted.

Well firstly there is no such being as satan to mean a fallen angel - there are many adversaries in the world you just need to know what Scripture is referencing.

Secondly, Jesus does not throw people away! people throw him away - I'm amazed you dont know this or what he allows to those who do.

Much weeping - Judas is the example

F2F

 

[Patrick1966]

give some examples here

Read 1 Timothy 4:10 and Matthew 25:46 in the KJV. They contradict one another.

 

[face2face]

Read 1 Timothy 4:10 and Matthew 25:46 in the KJV. They contradict one another.

Just put up the verses Patrick!

For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

CMP

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Explain....

 

[Patrick1966]

people throw him away

True, but eventually ALL will go to him. He'll never abandon them. Please remember the parable of the lost sheep. He will leave the 99 to rescue the ONE lost sheep. NONE will be left behind. Again, 1 Corinthians 15 says so. Please read the following two verses:

Hebrews 2:5-9

5 For it was not to angels that God subjected the world to come, of which we are speaking. 6 It has been testified somewhere,

“What is man, that you are mindful of him,
or the son of man, that you care for him?
7 You made him for a little while lower than the angels;
you have crowned him with glory and honor,
8 putting everything in subjection under his feet.”

Now in putting everything in subjection to him, he left nothing outside his control. At present, we do not yet see everything in subjection to him. 9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

1 Corinthians 15:22-28

22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. 24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For “God[c] has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. 28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.

 

[Patrick1966]

Just put up the verses Patrick!

For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

CMP

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Explain....

Matthew 25:46 of the KJV and many other English translations wrongly translate "eonian" to "everlasting". Here is the correct translation per the Concordant Literal New Testament.

MATTHEW'S ACCOUNT - Concordant Publishing Concern

www.concordant.org

46 And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian."

 

[face2face]

True, but eventually ALL will go to him.

Only those who believe, yes!

He'll never abandon them.

No, we know what happens to those who abandom him

Please remember the parable of the lost sheep. He will leave the 99 to rescue the ONE lost sheep. NONE will be left behind. Again, 1 Corinthians 15 says so. Please read the following two verses:

True, he saves those who know they are lost!

Hebrews 2:5-9

5 For it was not to angels that God subjected the world to come, of which we are speaking. 6 It has been testified somewhere,

“What is man, that you are mindful of him,
or the son of man, that you care for him?
7 You made him for a little while lower than the angels;
you have crowned him with glory and honor,
8 putting everything in subjection under his feet.”

Correct, God has and will put everything under his feet to mean all things will be subject to him accept God who made it so! The dead still remain dead.

Now in putting everything in subjection to him, he left nothing outside his control. At present, we do not yet see everything in subjection to him. 9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

1 Corinthians 15:22-28

22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. 24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For “God[c] has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. 28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.

Not sure what you are trying to make of this text but its not saying what you want it to.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Matthew 25:46 of the KJV and many other English translations wrongly translate "eonian" to "everlasting". Here is the correct translation per the Concordant Literal New Testament.

MATTHEW'S ACCOUNT - Concordant Publishing Concern

www.concordant.org

46 And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian."

So are you suggesting other translations dont have error's?

 

[Patrick1966]

Only those who believe, yes!

Most go to the grave having never believed in Jesus. The scriptures are clear that they eventually go to Jesus and are saved.

 

[Patrick1966]

So are you suggesting other translations dont have error's?

I am not, but one doesn't have to be an expert in Koine Greek to see that the KJV and most other English translations contradict themselves.

 

[Patrick1966]

Only those who believe, yes!


No, we know what happens to those who abandom him

True, he saves those who know they are lost!


Correct, God has and will put everything under his feet to mean all things will be subject to him accept God who made it so! The dead still remain dead.


Not sure what you are trying to make of this text but its not saying what you want it to.

F2F

Ok bro.

 

[face2face]

Most go to the grave having never believed in Jesus. The scriptures are clear that they eventually go to Jesus and are saved.

Ha, do you seriously believe that? Seriously?
I'd be keen to see a single verse that speaks of the unbelieving being saved.
Wow - ignorance is spreading - maybe St. SteVen has another convert.
F2F

 

[Patrick1966]

Wow - ignorance is spreading - maybe St. SteVen has another convert.
F2F

Polite discussion isn't happening with you. Goodbye.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Most English translations DO have contradictions due to erroneous translations, particularly, the King James Version.

give some examples here

Read 1 Timothy 4:10 and Matthew 25:46 in the KJV. They contradict one another.

WHERE is the contradiction?

 

[face2face]

Polite discussion isn't happening with you. Goodbye.

It's impossible to reason with a person who blatantly contradicts the very fabric of the Masters teaching. It's not just ignorance its blatant willful ignorance to say unbelievers will be saved and then to fail to justify those statements shows a lack of integrity on your part.
Back to Bible basics is the only recommendation for most of those in this thread.
F2F

 

[face2face]

So far we have determined @Patrick1966 @quietthinker @St. SteVen believe that unbelievers and the ungodly will be saved and given the reward of immortality which is eternal life.

This thread should be locked and deleted.

F2F

 

[Patrick1966]

give some examples here


WHERE is the contradiction?

One verse says that Jesus saves ALL men. The other verse says that some men are punished forever. That is a glaring contradiction.