Why are Bible scholars leaving Christianity?

[GeneZ]

Bible scholars are leaving Christianity in droves. Why?
Not because they don't understand the Bible, obviously. (they're Bible scholars)

- Do you have to be Christian to believe in God?
- Do you have to agree with the institutional church's positions to believe in God?

Previous topic on this subject.

Leaving Room for Faith - why we don't know EVERYTHING

At one time I was bothered by the fact that we don't really have ALL the answers. There was always a loose end somewhere. I chased the apologetics in every direction, but always came up short somewhere. And frankly, I don't remember the specifics, only the moment of my release from the tyranny...

www.christianityboard.com

Who says that these ones are genuine Christian scholars?

And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those ​

who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about. ​

For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. ​

And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light." 2 Corinthians 11:12-14​

grace and peace ..................

 

[St. SteVen]

Who says that these ones are genuine Christian scholars?

I would say their testimonies do. Did you watch the videos?
(of course not) But maybe I shouldn't make assumptions about you.
I mean, like the assumptions you are making about them.

What makes a "genuine Christian scholar", in your view?
If they agree with your personal doctrine?

 

[face2face]

I would say their testimonies do. Did you watch the videos?
(of course not) But maybe I shouldn't make assumptions about you.
I mean, like the assumptions you are making about them.

What makes a "genuine Christian scholar", in your view?
If they agree with your personal doctrine?

Good point @GeneZ
St. SteVen provides the label... but fails to provide any substance to support it - ho hum...yawn, moving right along!
F2F

 

[GeneZ]

I would say their testimonies do. Did you watch the videos?
(of course not) But maybe I shouldn't make assumptions about you.
I mean, like the assumptions you are making about them.

What makes a "genuine Christian scholar", in your view?
If they agree with your personal doctrine?

They are scholars by birth. They chose Christianity as their money making racket.

What makes a genuine Christian scholar is someone with a disciplined laid down life for the Lord.
One who by the Spirit is guided into expounding and clarifying.

 

[St. SteVen]

They are scholars by birth. They chose Christianity as their money making racket.

What makes a genuine Christian scholar is someone with a disciplined laid down life for the Lord.
One who by the Spirit is guided into expounding and clarifying.

So, you have a preference of the one echo chamber over the other?

 

[GeneZ]

So, you have a preference of the one echo chamber over the other?

One I can recommend is learned about by word of mouth.
He will not ask for money for those interested.

Pastors have used him for their personal study.
R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries | Home

No money asked for:
R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries | Home

 

[gpresdo]

So... you don't have to be a Christian to believe in God. You agree.

I'm curious...what is your point?Make no mistake...there are money makers out there....big time. Joel Osteen comes to mind.

 

[GeneZ]

So... you don't have to be a Christian to believe in God. You agree.

The Pharisees that had Jesus crucified believed in there being a God.

You have to believe in Jesus Christ to *know* God. Only a Christian can know God, and not all who claim to be Christian are knowing God.

 

[St. SteVen]

I'm curious...what is your point?Make no mistake...there are money makers out there....big time. Joel Osteen comes to mind.

Correct me if I misunderstood, but you seem to have made a blanket discrimination against these folks.

 

[David in NJ]

Bible scholars are leaving Christianity in droves. Why?
Not because they don't understand the Bible, obviously. (they're Bible scholars)

- Do you have to be Christian to believe in God?
- Do you have to agree with the institutional church's positions to believe in God?

Previous topic on this subject.

Leaving Room for Faith - why we don't know EVERYTHING

At one time I was bothered by the fact that we don't really have ALL the answers. There was always a loose end somewhere. I chased the apologetics in every direction, but always came up short somewhere. And frankly, I don't remember the specifics, only the moment of my release from the tyranny...

www.christianityboard.com

OK Everyone and especially @St. SteVen ,

It has become quite APPARENT why they are leaving in droves AND it's on TV........!!!

Everyone is running to Domino's Pizza = i've SEEN it, i really did

 

[St. SteVen]

OK Everyone and especially @St. SteVen ,

It has become quite APPARENT why they are leaving in droves AND it's on TV........!!!

Everyone is running to Domino's Pizza = i've SEEN it, i really did

It's the devil in pepperoni ! - LOL
(dripping in mozzarella)
Sorry, gotta run....................

 

[JohnDB]

Any astute "scholar" of the scriptures instantly becomes intrigued by them. Because these 66 books by 40+ authors over a period of over 1500 years agree.

That doesn't just happen.

And there's the expense of copying the scriptures so that they would be preserved and proliferated. A Torah alone would cost a year's wages. Nevermind the rest of the Old Testament....

Then as you study these letters and chronicles and songs there are fantastic stories within them. Written in an obscure manner in obscure languages...but studied in depth these tales aren't flat...they are fantastic to the point of incredulity.

So...
For some Christianity is all about the destination and having a fire insurance policy. For others it's a money making racket. For some it's about power over others by having a holy reputation. There's a million reasons why some people join the "Christian Club" for a "good guy" label.

But only ONE reason is going to gain access to heaven.

Many of these "fundamentalists" have strange beliefs. Same with most evangelicals. After doing so much extensive studying there really isn't a denomination left for me to be a real part of. I don't fit anywhere.

Same with many real scholars I am acquainted with. These guys get paid to do the research by these huge denominations or institutions and write a research paper. Just to have the denomination bury it and never let it out because it rubs against one of their denomination's core doctrines.

The elite in the SDA church know that Saturday worship is not a requisite for Heaven...know the scriptures and explanations as to why. Do they tell? Nope....because they would lose their distinctiveness.
Same thing goes with EVERYONE from DL Moody to Southeastern Seminary.

Missionaries?
Let's just say that people suck...and most mission fields do as well. Patrons are hard to come by...the "romantic" idea of being a missionary is attractive...the reality is something different. Everyone is out for your money and changing your mission. It's heartbreaking most days.

Then on top of this....we tend to destroy anyone who makes a mistake.

I know a pastor that cheated on his wife 25 years ago. He was in the middle of creating a new church. The church had a million dollars in hard assets they acquired through gifts over and above their budget for building a building.
Another pastor got to his newly created Board of directors and started a smear campaign over the affair. *it wasn't a secret* Then that pastor took over the disgraced pastor's church and raided all the assets. All in the name of "protecting the people". Absolutely destroyed the church. A quarter of the former congregation shows up now...it's a dying church with lousy music and a tool for a pastor. All staff was either fired or resigned.


I trust none of them.

 

[Jack]

"Why are Bible scholars leaving Christianity?

Who says they are "Bible scholars"?

 

[St. SteVen]

Then on top of this....we tend to destroy anyone who makes a mistake.

Great post, thanks!
This stood out to me.

Did you see this topic (link below) tearing down Hillsong?
Sure, there were problems with leadership, that was dealt with.
But the topic and MOST posters were trashing a global church body because of some missteps by leadership.

Hillsong (Hellsong) Megachurch Exposed (TLC Series)

Broadcast by TLC, The Learning Channel. This is a series expose. Many episodes. So I'm watching the first episode just now. And a woman who was with Hillsong is talking about their music and how they composed music to manipulate the minds of their faithful. Because many of their songs...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[St. SteVen]

Many of these "fundamentalists" have strange beliefs. Same with most evangelicals. After doing so much extensive studying there really isn't a denomination left for me to be a real part of. I don't fit anywhere.

I can empathize.
Since I was old enough to read the whole Bible cover to cover and study it for myself,
I have not been in any church that I agreed with 100%.

I still attend weekly with my wife, but I have to put up with a bit that I don't agree with.
In general, I consider myself to be a recovering evangelical. (how I was raised)
I'm in the process of re-evaluating everything.

So, like you, I don't fit anywhere.
Not perfectly anyway.
And frankly, I don't think ANYONE should.
I mean, I hope we aren't lemmings! - LOL

 

[Behold]

I'm curious...what is your point?Make no mistake...there are money makers out there....big time. Joel Osteen comes to mind.

You should check out the Vatican, if you want to see "Church" as a money making 1500 yr old religious "business".

 

[JohnDB]

Great post, thanks!
This stood out to me.

Did you see this topic (link below) tearing down Hillsong?
Sure, there were problems with leadership, that was dealt with.
But the topic and MOST posters were trashing a global church body because of some missteps by leadership.

Hillsong (Hellsong) Megachurch Exposed (TLC Series)

Broadcast by TLC, The Learning Channel. This is a series expose. Many episodes. So I'm watching the first episode just now. And a woman who was with Hillsong is talking about their music and how they composed music to manipulate the minds of their faithful. Because many of their songs...

www.christianityboard.com

Leadership of non-profit organizations is especially difficult for just about everyone I've ever met trying to accomplish it.

Management in general is difficult...granted every fast food and boutique store has a manager but that doesn't mean they are any good at it. Turnover is high in these places for a reason. Even upper management for these places usually stinks too...
80% of all business failures is due to poor management...however the employees will be blamed 100% of the time.

Church management is not any different and usually worse.

Anywhere from 75% to 90% of your paid church staff spends their days on the computer watching television, youtube videos or some other things....then when things in the office close up the pastoral staff goes out visiting various members in hospitals and elsewhere to check up on various families...usually the same ones over and over again.
Deacons and other family representatives? Hey, it was a popularity contest...most don't ever want the work...but a few do.

That being said most of the pastoral staff pulls about 60-80 hrs each week and has to give back at least 10%(gross) to their employer or be fired. They get very little family time and every aspect of the families are scrutinized and criticized to the 9nth degree. (No wonder hanging with the PK is usually the best way to get into trouble)

Then....most pastoral staff doesn't understand how to be a servant's servant leader. Not just a servant leader...a servant's servant leader. To be inspiring in such a fashion as the congregation picks up the tasks as leadership and spearheads their own campaigns to lead and be a part of the entire community. Sure most pastors want a building campaign because its a nice resume polisher...but ones that reach the community are NEVER FORGOTTEN.

Nice buildings are just that...nice buildings with cushioned leather pew warmers and state of the art audio-visual systems capable of having an awesome concert....but these cathedrals aren't what God really wants...he wants hearts!
Every community needs something...like a Christmas Village to see Jesus in a Manger with Roman guards milling about and fish mongers and animals....or an Ancient Easter cemetery and villiage....of course choirs singing and cocoa and candy and cookies and Easter egg hunts. Maybe children's intermural sports leagues for kids to play basketball or soccer or even football. Discount Daycares for before and after school or even preschool for when there's a real shortage in the community.

Lots of things churches can be doing but usually don't anymore. And a Servant's servant leader is constantly taking care of the servant's no matter what they need...encouragement or just a break and rest. That's what is really needed these days...they are just in short supply.

 

[Behold]

Leadership of non-profit organizations is especially difficult for just about everyone I've ever met trying to accomplish it.

It can be that the Leader was not actually called to be a Pastor of a Church, and undertook the position, thinking that because (Daddy was the Pastor), or because they have more Theological degrees than a Thermometer, then that is " obviously God's Call on my Life".

Also, There is this idea in mainline denomination "churches" that what matters is Seminary, Credentials, and Networking.
And that can get you into the Pulpit and a building to try to keep well lit...., but it wont sustain the flock for very long once the initial curiosity wears off.
It'll dry on the Vine, unless they bring in the spiritual freak show fakers, but even that isn't going to keep the crowd coming back.
And that isn't the Crowd you want, anyway.

Here is the thing about the "call of God".
When a person has it, then others are "hatched" by the "call".

What i mean is... If a Pastor or Evangelist is called, then God has put on and in them, this mystical empowering and enabling, and its of God, and it causes listeners to want to follow, and then become and do.

A Real Pastor will hatch other Pastors.
A Real Missionary will hatch other Missionaries.
A Real Evangelist, will hatch other Evangelists.
A Real Bible will Hatch born again Christians.

 

[JohnDB]

It can be that the Leader was not actually called to be a Pastor of a Church, and undertook the position, thinking that because (Daddy was the Pastor), or because they have more Theological degrees than a Thermometer, then that is " obviously God's Call on my Life".

Also, There is this idea in mainline denomination "churches" that what matters is Seminary, Credentials, and Networking.
And that can get you into the Pulpit and a building to try to keep well lit...., but it wont sustain the flock for very long once the initial curiosity wears off.
It'll dry on the Vine, unless they bring in the spiritual freak show fakers, but even that isn't going to keep the crowd coming back.
And that isn't the Crowd you want, anyway.

Here is the thing about the "call of God".
When a person has it, then others are "hatched" by the "call".

What i mean is... If a Pastor or Evangelist is called, then God has put on and in them, this mystical empowering and enabling, and its of God, and it causes listeners to want to follow, and then become and do.

A Real Pastor will hatch other Pastors.
A Real Missionary will hatch other Missionaries.
A Real Evangelist, will hatch other Evangelists.
A Real Bible will Hatch born again Christians.

Do you know the stories of Adoniram Judson and George Liele?

For over a hundred years Adoniram Judson held the distinction of being the USA's first missionary. He was a Diest (Today we say non-denominational) but eventually was converted to becoming a Baptist. Then he was further trained to be a missionary...he went to India where his wife died of a fever and at the end of thirty years he had one half believing, half-hearted assistant. He left the mission field to come home exhausted and at death's door himself.

However....
Just as the Colonists were getting their victory over Britain in the Revolutionary War a natural born emancipated black man had been a preacher for years predominantly preaching to the slave populations and starting churches among the slaves. The colonists really didn't like George and made plans to enslave him. So George and his family hopped aboard one of the last British ships and they left him on the island of Jamaica Where George continued to preach and is credited with starting over 200 different churches in Jamaica.

So....who do you think was sent of God?

 

[Behold]

Do you know the stories of Adoniram Judson and George Liele?

For over a hundred years Adoniram Judson held the distinction of being the USA's first missionary. He was a Diest (Today we say non-denominational) but eventually was converted to becoming a Baptist. Then he was further trained to be a missionary...he went to India where his wife died of a fever and at the end of thirty years he had one half believing, half-hearted assistant. He left the mission field to come home exhausted and at death's door himself.

However....
Just as the Colonists were getting their victory over Britain in the Revolutionary War a natural born emancipated black man had been a preacher for years predominantly preaching to the slave populations and starting churches among the slaves. The colonists really didn't like George and made plans to enslave him. So George and his family hopped aboard one of the last British ships and they left him on the island of Jamaica Where George continued to preach and is credited with starting over 200 different churches in Jamaica.

So....who do you think was sent of God?

Thank you for this question...

The answer is...
The one who was Preaching Paul's Gospel.
It always bears the fruit of salvation., as "the word of God cannot return void"..

So, when a religious person casts out demons in Jesus's name, and later Jesus tells them to Depart because He "does not know them"..., its not because they are not a disciple of Christ.
Its because they are not a Christian.

Hell is filled with water baptized, commandment obsessed, disciples of Christ as well as willful Christ rejectors.
See, a Disciple is this one...... "if you keep my word, you are my DISCIPLE, indeed".

But a Christian, is a Son/Daughter of God, who becomes a disciple, because they are born again to do it.

When Jesus "does not know you" its because you are not joined to Him Spiritually = NOT born again.

That's how God "Knows" you..... as when you become "one with God" "in Christ" you are KNOWN forever by spiritual birth.

You name is found in the Lamb's book of Life, forever. It never taken out.