Hellfire and brimstone has given way to eternal separation from God. - Why?

[FaithWillDo]

Doesn't this make our loving God a cosmic tyrant?

Dear St.SteVen,
You asked:
Doesn't this make our loving God a cosmic tyrant?

No, it makes Him our God.

This verse applies:

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

And because God leaves nothing up to chance or up to mankind's "will", mankind hates Him for it:

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

To become one of God's children, God wants us to experience evil and to experience tribulation:

Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Ecc 1:13 An experience of evil God has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

From this difficult experience that God is putting us through, we will learn to appreciate the goodness of God and will learn to trust Him for all our needs. Only then will we truly be the kind of children that God desires us to be. We are His workmanship.

Joe

 

[MatthewG]

@FaithWillDo,

Thank you for sharing your view, however it's up to individuals to seek and search. Even though we can consider what man says, the need to go back to the source of life, and also find out information from the bible concerning matters as which you shared should be diligently searched in faith looking towards God.

All the best, in love and consideration,
Matthew

 

[St. SteVen]

Dear St.SteVen,
You asked:
Doesn't this make our loving God a cosmic tyrant?

No, it makes Him our God.

Like that is something to celebrate in worship of Him? (while our loved ones burn)

 

[MatthewG]

@St. SteVen

I got a question about God's party in heaven, if I could ask you and see what you think about it?

 

[St. SteVen]

@St. SteVen

I got a question about God's party in heaven, if I could ask you and see what you think about it?

The short answer is, "Yes."
Seems like a great set up for a joke. (here goes)

Person #1: Did you here about God's party in heaven?
Person #2: No I didn't.
Person #1: Uh oh, didn't you get an invitation?
Person #2: Err... No I didn't.
Person #1: Bad news! I guess you weren't invited. Ha ha ha...

 

[FaithWillDo]

We agree on this point. But... then you write this...

The law?
The old covenant law?

Non-Elect believers? Wow.
And the law thing again?
Not sure where you are coming from. Sabbatarianism?

Stripes? Like the lines on meat that comes off a BBQ grill?

Dear St.SteVen,
You said:
The law?
The old covenant law?

All mankind has sinned and because of such, they come under the Old Covenant of Law.

1John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Paul said this:

Gal 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Circumcision is a "work" of the Law and was the issue at hand in the church at that time. But any "work" will cause a believer to fall from grace. The most common "work" in the apostate church comes from the Doctrine of Free Will. This doctrine teaches a believer to have a "works" based belief system (which is what our carnal nature prefers). Because the apostate church has this belief system, the apostate believers will say this to Christ just before He rejects them:

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

The apostate believers think that they, at least in some way, have "earned" their salvation - whether it was through good works or just by making a "free will" decision to accept Jesus as Lord. By believing this way, they are mixing "works" with faith which is the reason Christ rejects them. In other words, they have not entered into the rest of Christ. They are not trusting Christ do all the works of saving and converting them. Faith in Christ to do 100% of the work of our salvation is what opens the door for Him to do it.

The pathway to salvation requires every person to pass through the Old Covenant of Law because it is the Law that is our schoolmaster which will bring us to Christ and the New Covenant.

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

You said:
Non-Elect believers? Wow.
And the law thing again?
Not sure where you are coming from. Sabbatarianism?

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Most of the world will remain unbelievers. But many people are called out from the world. From those "many", a "few" are also chosen. They are the Elect. Those who are called out but not chosen are non-Elect believers (or what ever term you want to call them).

I answered the "law thing" above.

You said:
Stripes? Like the lines on meat that comes off a BBQ grill?

Your understanding is still carnal. God's Word is spiritual and Christ uses spiritual symbols to teach His truth. Stripes is one of those symbols. It merely means punishment for sin. Christ will not literally whip a person. The symbol "fire" is similar. Christ will not literally use fire in the Lake of Fire. Fire is a symbol which represents Christ's judgment by the Law.

Joe

 

[marks]

What's your take on all of this?

I think it's called "Seeker Friendly", that is, keep quiet on the "hard sayings". Those who lack faith in God look at parts of the Bible and say, "Oh no no NO that will NEVER do!!" So they find a way to not believe.

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

The Parable of the Great Supper​

15 Now when one of those who sat at the table with Him heard these things, he said to Him, “Blessed is he who shall eat [e]bread in the kingdom of God!”

16 Then He said to him, “A certain man gave a great supper and invited many, 17 and sent his servant at supper time to say to those who were invited, ‘Come, for all things are now ready.’18 But they all with one accord began to make excuses. The first said to him, ‘I have bought a piece of ground, and I must go and see it. I ask you to have me excused.’ 19 And another said, ‘I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I am going to test them. I ask you to have me excused.’ 20 Still another said, ‘I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.’ 21 So that servant came and reported these things to his master. Then the master of the house, being angry, said to his servant, ‘Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in here the poor and the [f]maimed and the lame and the blind.’ 22 And the servant said, ‘Master, it is done as you commanded, and still there is room.’ 23 Then the master said to the servant, ‘Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled. 24 For I say to you that none of those men who were invited shall taste my supper.’ ”


What is your take on this Parable of Jesus?

 

[FaithWillDo]

Like that is something to celebrate in worship of Him? (while our loved ones burn)

Dear St.SteVen,
I thought you understood that "fire" is not literal fire but merely represents judgment. I also thought that you rejected the false teaching of "free will". However, I am not so sure now. Many of the things you have said recently makes me think that you have a works based belief system - it is just more hidden in you than most other believers.

In the final age, the Elect will be reigning (serving) with Christ to save the rest of mankind. They do this because they love them. I know that my mother, father, brother and sister are going to be cast into the Lake of Fire as most of mankind will be. It will be a difficult time for them but I trust Christ to see them through it. I know that Christ loves them every bit as much as He loves His Elect and He will do all that is necessary to save them through the fire.

Joe

 

[WalkInLight]

Thanks for your post.
Do you have a response to the topic title question?

Hellfire and brimstone has given way to eternal separation from God. - Why? ​

​

Hellfire and brimstone are a Roman Catholic view. It sets up fear as the key driver, rather than love.
Once you understand what love is and that this is God, hell is separation from God.

So meaningfully as humans we are built on love, and damaged by its withdrawal and retaliation against disappointment.
Tina Turners song "What has love got to do with it?" hides deep pain and disappointment, and is the total cynical view of what connecting with another is really all about.

Hellfire is just the final end to dysfunctional sinful man, which is why it features so little in Jesus's preaching.
If one is just running from Hellfire, one will just end up there. I have met many believers who like the idea of heaven but on their terms and certainly not involving repenting of sin and learning how to love others. Their hatred goes so deep, they call this love communism, and paint any of its language as something to reject and call evil.

I was called worse than a murdered for preaching love and its transforming power by a believer who claimed to know Gods love which for him meant he just had to accept he was a sinner and nothing would change until the resurrection. For me this lostness is so sad and insane as what his legalistic background of trying to obey God without an open heart led him to reject those who believe in repentance.

God bless you

 

[St. SteVen]

Hellfire and brimstone are a Roman Catholic view. It sets up fear as the key driver...

Agree. That's the source.
Not sure how it looks (historically) on your side of the pond, but
fundamentalist Protestants seem to have taken it to the next level over here.
But, with the shift I am addressing with this topic, they have become the minority.

 

[St. SteVen]

All the best, STeven,
Matthew

Thanks for including this video. I finally found time to listen to the whole thing. (over 2 hours)
He has a very unique perspective. And does a good job of answering the questions thrown at him.
Unfortunate that it labels him as a cult leader. Which is weird, because it seems that he published the video.
What did you make of it?

 

[Meditation]

Over the years I have noticed a shift away from the embarrassment of the hell doctrine.
It had always seemed like the "fly in the ointment" of Christianity to me.
But we had biblical evidence that it was sad, but true.

The solution was evangelism. We are in the business of "saving souls from hell." Err...
I mean "eternal separation from God." (whatever that means to you) ???

This task of world evangelism was completely overwhelming.
We had annual world missions conferences for fund raising.
We were sending and supporting missionaries at home and abroad.

Some were wanting to be good stewards of their giving by
demanding results, or channeling the funds toward "fruitful" ministries.
Which meant withdrawing support from any who seemed to not
measure up to their expectations. Made me wonder.

Here at home we were still expected to spread the good news.
But, an over-evangelized America was less than welcoming.
They hadn't forgotten the "hellfire and brimstone".

What's your take on all of this?



@Patrick1966 @Hillsage @Chadrho @FaithWillDo @Nancy @GRACE ambassador @quietthinker @Lambano

Because the concept of 'Hellfire' was antichristian to BEGIN with.
But, what are they gonna do when 'separated'? They are now....
Will they live forever in a corrupt Earth?


The imagination knows no bounds!

 

[MatthewG]

Most cult leader dont subvert to answering questions. You do as they say or you get the back of the hand or worse. End up dead and everyone covers for you. You shut up, be quiet, obey, and dont you dare decide to think for yourself, you get beat. Behind closed doors? Isnt that what real cults do, Steven?

Christian Ultra-Libertrians for truth - is cult, with Christ first. Christian values first, with Christ who allows liberty. Different cult.

 

[Patrick1966]

however it's up to individuals to seek and search.

Is that your doctrine or God's?

 

[Patrick1966]

Christian Ultra-Libertrians for truth - is cult

Who are they? Do they have a web page?

 

[MatthewG]

Is that your doctrine or God's?

What makes you ask the question? Does anyone have any authority when it comes to the bible today?

Who are they? Do they have a web page?

www.cult.love - Online learning school, pertaining to the Bible.
https://www.youtube.com/@christianultlibertarians - Youtube page.

 

[Patrick1966]

What makes you ask the question? Does anyone have any authority when it comes to the bible today?

I think a lot of people have learned or developed their own doctrines that aren't necessarily of God. You said it's up to the individual to "seek and search" and so I am asking you if that is your own doctrine or is it Biblical.

 

[MatthewG]

I think a lot of people have learned or developed their own doctrines that aren't necessarily of God. You said it's up to the individual to "seek and search" and so I am asking you if that is your own doctrine or is it Biblical.

Did God give Adam and Eve a choice? Was there two trees, or only one?

 

[Patrick1966]

www.cult.love - Online learning school, pertaining to the Bible.

Thanks. I checked out their site. I didn't see anything there that would intrigue me to engage them further.