How do you reconcile "the gates of Hell will NOT prevail" with Satan supposedly taking most of mankind to Hell with him?

[Jack]

You cannot answer a simple question because you have a monolithic misunderstanding of God, his nature, his plan, and his scriptures.

I quote Scripture all the time. You just lied.

Revelation 21
8 All liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

You could gain understanding but your Himalayan ego and vanity precludes you from doing so.

Personal insults nearly always used by Bible attackers!

You wish to persuade but are unwilling to be persuaded yourself.

Satan loves it when his messengers convince people there is no 'everlasting fire'!

Matthew 3
12 "His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

You lack intellectual honesty and integrity.

And you lack Scripture. I have LOTS!

Matthew 7
19 "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

You believe yourself to have an infallible understanding when, in fact, you are unable to respond intelligently to simple questions and that is because your theology is significantly flawed.

Well if I'm wrong, according to you I'll still be saved. If you're leading people to Hell you will be with them. But there may be hope for you.

Jude 1
22 And on some have compassion, making a distinction; 23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire,

 

[Eternally Grateful]

All will believe, eventually.

true, when they see him face to face

but that was not what I asked. Will they all be saved. will everyone in the world (inside the gates of hell) be rescued by the church and added to it?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I like that statement but Hell means death, not the world. Jesus built his church and nothing can stop it because that is God's will.

The kosmos system (satans world) is hell..

If the gates of hell is death., it makes no sense that jesus would mention building the church by the church overpowering the gates of hell..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Lamentations 3:31 says God will not cast one off forever. So which is it?

From the same author in the same message in the same chapter.

Context would surely help us to understand what a person is talking about

Lamentations 3:
O Lord, You have pleaded the case for my soul;
You have redeemed my life.
59 O Lord, You have seen how I am wronged;
Judge my case.
60 You have seen all their vengeance,
All their schemes against me.

61 You have heard their reproach, O Lord,
All their schemes against me,
62 The lips of my enemies
And their whispering against me all the day.
63 Look at their sitting down and their rising up;
I am their taunting song.

64 Repay them, O Lord,
According to the work of their hands.
65 Give them a veiled heart;
Your curse be upon them!
66 In Your anger,
Pursue and destroy them
From under the heavens of the Lord.

Is it not odd that the same author that says he will not cast his people off forever (I believe he is speaking of Isreal) tells the same God to pursue and destroy other people

 

[St. SteVen]

Patrick1966 said:
All will believe, eventually.

true, when they see him face to face

Here's my take on this. cc: @Patrick1966
Don't miss the Strong's definition of "acknowledge" near the bottom of this post. Thanks.

Anyone who has knees to bow and a tongue to speak, in heaven and on earth and under the earth (in the realm of the dead), will whole-heartedly, and without reservation, acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord. No one can say that “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved. Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. (the reason for the bodily resurrection) Scriptural support below.

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says,
“Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Further reading: Isaiah 45:23; Romans 14:11; Revelation 15:4

 

[Patrick1966]

Patrick1966 said:
All will believe, eventually.

Here's my take on this. cc: @Patrick1966
Don't miss the Strong's definition of "acknowledge" near the bottom of this post. Thanks.

Anyone who has knees to bow and a tongue to speak, in heaven and on earth and under the earth (in the realm of the dead), will whole-heartedly, and without reservation, acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord. No one can say that “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved. Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. (the reason for the bodily resurrection) Scriptural support below.

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says,
“Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Further reading: Isaiah 45:23; Romans 14:11; Revelation 15:4

One has to reject a lot of scripture to believe in forever punishment.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

One has to reject a lot of scripture to believe in forever punishment.

one has to reject alot of scripture to think there is not eternal punishment

God made us eternal beings.. Will will live forever. the question is, where will that forever be, with God, or without God?

 

[Patrick1966]

one has to reject alot of scripture to think there is not eternal punishment

God made us eternal beings.. Will will live forever. the question is, where will that forever be, with God, or without God?

Which verse and Bible translation teaches forever punishment?

 

[St. SteVen]

one has to reject alot of scripture to think there is not eternal punishment

I tend to agree with that statement on some level.
There are three biblical views of the final judgement.
And all three are in conflict.

Damnationism disagrees with Annihilationism and Universalism.
Annihilationism disagrees with Damnationism and Universalism.
Universalism disagrees with Damnationism and Annihilationism.

Something has to give.

God made us eternal beings.. Will will live forever. the question is, where will that forever be, with God, or without God?

The biggest issue for me is what the three different views say about the character of God.

Is God's plan for humankind to predestine the vast majority to eternal conscious torment?
No tyrant in human history can come close to the brutal sadism in that belief.
There simply is no way to justify it. IMHO

 

[Patrick1966]

Many Christians believe that Jesus will forever operate Auschwitz-style camps wherein Jesus will sadistically beat and torture the condemned 24/7 FOREVER. It is the epitome of warped theology that casts Jesus as a monster rather than the healer and savior that he is!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I tend to agree with that statement on some level.
There are three biblical views of the final judgement.
And all three are in conflict.

Damnationism disagrees with Annihilationism and Universalism.
Annihilationism disagrees with Damnationism and Universalism.
Universalism disagrees with Damnationism and Annihilationism.

Something has to give.


The biggest issue for me is what the three different views say about the character of God.

Is God's plan for humankind to predestine the vast majority to eternal conscious torment?
No tyrant in human history can come close to the brutal sadism in that belief.
There simply is no way to justify it. IMHO

So what should God do?

1. Only allow those who chose him to be born?
2. Force people to believe in him so not many go to eternal fire.
3. Die for every one of them, so no one can blame him when someone sends THEMSELVES to the eternal fire. because they rejected him, he did not reject them

I take the third option. what say you?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Many Christians believe that Jesus will forever operate Auschwitz-style camps wherein Jesus will sadistically beat and torture the condemned 24/7 FOREVER. It is the epitome of warped theology that casts Jesus as a monster rather than the healer and savior that he is!

View attachment 35161

actually, being seperated from jesus for eternity, knowing you had the truth, but rejected it. Is what they will suffer.

they will suffer a life where there is no God, their is no peace. there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.

But God did nto do it to them, He created that place for satan and his angels.

These people send themselves their because they rejected the gift of salvation jesus offered to them.

don;t Blame God when Jesus paid their debt so they can get out

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Which verse and Bible translation teaches forever punishment?

which one would you like. You have been shown a few?

how many times do you need to see them before you will understand them?

 

[Patrick1966]

when someone sends THEMSELVES to the eternal fire.

Unbiblical. Revelation 20:15 describes people being "thrown in" in rather than "sending themselves".
15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[Patrick1966]

which one would you like. You have been shown a few?

how many times do you need to see them before you will understand them?

Are you angry? Why? We don't have to engage if doing so is upsetting you. Are you willing to be persuaded or are you cemented to your theology?

 

[Patrick1966]

actually, being seperated from jesus for eternity, knowing you had the truth, but rejected it. Is what they will suffer.

they will suffer a life where there is no God, their is no peace. there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.

But God did nto do it to them, He created that place for satan and his angels.

These people send themselves their because they rejected the gift of salvation jesus offered to them.

don;t Blame God when Jesus paid their debt so they can get out

In the parable of the lost sheep Jesus described a shepherd that never stopped seeking the lost sheep until ALL are found. Do you believe Jesus gives up? Do the Gates of Hell prevail after all?

 

[ScottA]

Does that not seem to be a massive contradiction?

@St. SteVen
@FaithWillDo

No, the contradiction is you applying God's wrath upon evil to those He has elected for salvation.

In other words, if you said "I will kill a bear to save my family", your would-be contradiction is like saying, "I will kill a bear and my family."

You are not "rightly dividing the word of truth."

 

[Eternally Grateful]

In the parable of the lost sheep Jesus described a shepherd that never stopped seeking the lost sheep until ALL are found. Do you believe Jesus gives up? Do the Gates of Hell prevail after all?

How can the gates prevail?

will everyone come to Jesus?

in the last 2000 years. How many have died lost? Did Jesus fail because they rejected him?

 

[ScottA]

In the parable of the lost sheep Jesus described a shepherd that never stopped seeking the lost sheep until ALL are found. Do you believe Jesus gives up? Do the Gates of Hell prevail after all?

But you have forgotten the wolves.

In other words, your theology is like claiming that God will save all the sheep and all the wolves.

What scripture tells of God saving all evil? There is none.

 

[Raccoon1010]

Not at all. Jesus said the gates of hell will not prevail against the church! And they haven't nor ever will.

Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

The it is the church.

That's my interpretation pretty much.