Dogmatic Christianity

[Patrick1966]

No. I believe God is sorting people in this age to find those who will be His intimates (saints), His subjects (saved righteous), His shamed wanderers (outer darkness) and those who will be eliminated entirely (lake of fire, the 2nd death).

My understanding, based on 1 Corinthians 15 (and others) is that Jesus must rule until all are under his feet. Jesus is waiting on the lost sheep to be found. Once all are saved, Jesus gives ALL who ever lived to God. If that isn't true, then neither is 1 Timothy 4:10 along with many other verses.

 

[Episkopos]

In the wilderness whose unbelief was God concerned with? The Israelites or the Canaanites?

In Judea in the time of Jesus, whose unbelief was God concerned with...the Jews or the Gentiles?

In our time where Jesus will not find any faith in the world...is He concerned with the church...or the world?

(Please use an equal and logical reasoning)....(if you dare)

 

[Episkopos]

My understanding, based on 1 Corinthians 15 (and others) is that Jesus must rule until all are under his feet. Jesus is waiting on the lost sheep to be found. Once all are saved, Jesus gives ALL who ever lived to God. If that isn't true, then neither is 1 Timothy 4:10 along with many other verses.

There is one side of the argument that says every knee will bow...and that God will cancel all His laws and reaping what we have sown.

But this doesn't take the WHOLE counsel of God into account. Otherwise the fear of the Lord is foolish rather than the beginning of wisdom.

What isn't looked into are the 4 destinies of mankind. Yes, many will be saved that don't know God...but many also will perish.

God does the sorting. We will do well to fear the Lord and depart from iniquity. After we die it will be too late to reconsider.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No. I believe God is sorting people in this age to find those who will be His intimates (saints), His subjects (saved righteous), His shamed wanderers (outer darkness) and those who will be eliminated entirely (lake of fire, the 2nd death).

See

its all about the person. What he does.

its not about God.

 

[Episkopos]

See

its all about the person. What he does.

its not about God.

You can believe that you will not reap what you have sown...all day... enjoy the delusion.

We will each be judged according to what we have done in the body. Read the bible...learn the truth.

 

[Patrick1966]

After we die it will be too late to reconsider.

I'm sorry to differ with you, my brother, but I believe that this is another misunderstanding shared by most Christians. I haven't seen any scriptures that make such a claim. Furthermore, we know that the majority of humanity goes to the grave having never followed Christ. As 1 Corinthians 15 states, Jesus MUST rule the kingdom until such time that ALL are "under his feet". In those times kings and emperors would sit on an elevated throne and their servants would be "under their feet". Jesus MUST rule the kingdom until ALL are under his feet. Thereafter Jesus gives the kingdom to God the Father.

@St. SteVen

 

[Episkopos]

I'm sorry to differ with you, my brother, but I believe that this is another misunderstanding shared by most Christians. I haven't seen any scriptures that make such a claim. Furthermore, we know that the majority of humanity goes to the grave having never followed Christ. As 1 Corinthians 15 states, Jesus MUST rule the kingdom until such time that ALL are "under his feet". In those times kings and emperors would sit on an elevated throne and their servants would be "under their feet". Jesus MUST rule the kingdom until ALL are under his feet. Thereafter Jesus gives the kingdom to God the Father.

@St. SteVen

Heb. 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

 

[Patrick1966]

In our time where Jesus will not find any faith in the world...is He concerned with the church...or the world?

Did Jesus die for all or just believers?

 

[Patrick1966]

Heb. 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Of course, but why do you believe that it's then "too late" for a person to be saved? There's nothing in scripture that says it's too late and, frankly, it wouldn't make sense. Please remember, you and I are blessed by God to have faith. Nobody can believe in Christ unless God the Father permits them to do so. Does it seem just that our all-loving creator would create a mass of humanity only to punish them forever because they didn't know Jesus after he didn't permit them to know him? That doesn't make any sense at all. I read the news and see accounts of teenagers who never had a chance getting gunned down. Do you believe that they are condemned by Jesus or does Jesus rehabilitate them? Jesus SAVES, my brother. As 1 Timothy 4:10 clearly states, Jesus is the savior of ALL people.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You can believe that you will not reap what you have sown...all day... enjoy the delusion.

We will each be judged according to what we have done in the body. Read the bible...learn the truth.

Oh I will reap what I sow

But I will never reap salvation. That can not be earned, if it could it would not be called salvation. It would be called somethign else.

 

[Episkopos]

Did Jesus die for all or just believers?

All men here means Gentiles...not just Jews. God saves the righteous regardless of their religious affiliation. Jesus is the saviour of all men...but not every man. One must compare scripture with scripture.

It also says the head of every man is Christ. Does that mean every single person? No. This means that we have direct access to the Lord as individuals.

 

[Episkopos]

Of course, but why do you believe that it's then "too late" for a person to be saved? There's nothing in scripture that says it's too late and, frankly, it wouldn't make sense. Please remember, you and I are blessed by God to have faith. Nobody can believe in Christ unless God the Father permits them to do so. Does it seem just that our all-loving creator would create a mass of humanity only to punish them forever because they didn't know Jesus after he didn't permit them to know him? That doesn't make any sense at all. I read the news and see accounts of teenagers who never had a chance getting gunned down. Do you believe that they are condemned by Jesus or does Jesus rehabilitate them? Jesus SAVES, my brother. As 1 Timothy 4:10 clearly states, Jesus is the savior of ALL people.

Knowing Jesus is about holiness....not righteousness. Men will be judged according to their works.

 

[ScottA]

I see great compassion from non believers.

does that mean they have the love of God in them?

and I do not see any commpassion in him, I see alot of hate and alot of anger from anyone who disagrees with him..

Thats not the way of God.

its the truth that matters. if the truth is wro9ng.. all the great works we do are nothing but filthy rags.. they will mean nothing.

I see that Episkopos has answered for himself, so I will leave it at that. And I am not sure I fully understand your position regarding him. In any case, you two are communicating and perhaps I shouldn't be in the middle.

 

[Patrick1966]

All men here means Gentiles...not just Jews.

I believe that "all men" means ALL men. :)

And then Paul tells us that through Christ God was reconciling the WORLD to him and forgiving them for their trespasses. Again, is this the whole world or is it not the whole world?

2 Corinthians 5:19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation

 

[Patrick1966]

Knowing Jesus is about holiness....not righteousness. Men will be judged according to their works.

It seems that you have glossed over what I wrote in my earlier response.
Let me ask you another question. Do you believe that God's will can be circumvented?

 

[ChristisGod]

All men here means Gentiles...not just Jews. God saves the righteous regardless of their religious affiliation. Jesus is the saviour of all men...but not every man. One must compare scripture with scripture.

It also says the head of every man is Christ. Does that mean every single person? No. This means that we have direct access to the Lord as individuals.

All means everyone without exception not some class of people.

 

[ScottA]

That's every person in this forum.

Very close indeed.

 

[Patrick1966]

Very close indeed.

Oddly enough, the seemingly least dogmatic among us are the board moderators. On other "Christian" forums it's common for dogmatic moderators to ban others for not goose-stepping to their personal interpretations of the scriptures.

 

[ScottA]

There isn't one person on the planet that has a full and accurate understanding of God.

While I agree, this perhaps should be addressed.

God refers to the complete mystery of God being finished "as He declared to His servants the prophets." Meaning that, yes, at any given time no one person has a full and accurate understanding of God....but, it is also true that "all truth" is promised and coming, even if only "precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little.”

Therefore, we should in fact expect it.

 

[Episkopos]

All means everyone without exception not some class of people.

So then whoever is not written in the book of life is cast into the lake of fire....you are saying that means no one?

Evangelicals take this to mean everyone is cast in...and you think that no one is cast in. How about a balanced view???