Denominations that teach only they will be saved

[St. SteVen]

Gods Statues, Written, are viewed AS Commands. To understand the requirement of obeying Commands, first requires an Understanding, that A Person First AGREES to submit and obey Statues and the Commands.

Should a person be stoned to death for collecting firewood on the Sabbath?

 

[St. SteVen]

The fornication parallel, is akin to a person dabbling in and with Evil spirits.

Yes, akin to idolatry.

Matthew 12:39 NIV
He answered, “A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign!
But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.

 

[mailmandan]

When I was a teenager, I had temporarily attended the "church of Christ" and they taught me that ONLY "their" church is the "true church" and they quoted Romans 16:16 in an effort to support their claim because it mentions the specific words, "churches of Christ" in that verse. Such a silly claim simply based on a name. They also proudly claimed they were not a denomination. I guess those who attend the church of God denomination could also try to use these verses (Acts 20:28; 1 Corinthians 1:2; 10:32; 11:22 etc..) in an effort to make the same claim that ONLY they are the "true church" based on the name "church of God." Anyway, I had temporarily attended that church with a friend and his aunt, and she was a very devout and thoroughly indoctrinated member of the church of Christ. After I stopped attending that church, a number of years went by and since then, I had received Christ through faith and was now a born again Christian.

As a new believer years later, I attended my friend's birthday party, and his aunt was there, and I shared this good news with her, expecting her to be excited for me but the only question that she had for me was, "where do you attend church?" When my answer was not "the church of Christ," she bowed her head in sadness as if to imply that I was still lost because I didn't say the "church of Christ." At that time, I was attending a Baptist church. Her husband approached me, and I shared the good news with him as well and he had the same question, "where do you attend church," and when I told him, and the answer was not the "church of Christ" his eyes glazed over followed by a cheesy legalistic grin on his face and he simply walked away from me and neither of them would speak with me for the rest of the night. I knew that something was terribly wrong! I could hear them both over in the corner going on and on about "salvation by water baptism" and that ONLY their church (the church of Christ) is the "true church." I quickly came to realize they were both deceived.

 

[Taken]

"Yah shure, ya betcha." - LOL
No, not really. I do say, "Nope." a lot.
(with a sharp cut-off)

Love it!! Has that friendly flare!

My grandfather emigrated from Sweden.
He had the Scandinavian accent.
As do many older folks around here.

Nice!

I'm a Twin Cities urbanite.

I have done some family research from that area, and a bit challenging when the city is sprawled into different counties.

So, not much Northern MN in me.

Have done some traveling in the northern part, primarily in summer time, (but would like to go during a winter carnival, see the ice sculptures and sled races) beautiful and people very friendly.

I do keep a short beard though.
Salt and pepper. The salt is winning.

Maybe a northern thing to stave off the winter cold. Went to a family reunion in Michigan UP and most of the men grew their beard for nearly a year for the upcoming reunion….funny and sort of like a gang of ZZ Top look alikes.

Love to visit though.
Makes a nice day trip.
Just a two hour drive to the great expanse.
Something special about visiting that huge body of water.

You have no shortage of inland lakes for sure, but the Great Lakes no doubt are majestic while treacherous. The Locks between the eastern part of the lake at Sault St. Marie and Canada is pretty cool. I have swam in all 5 G-lakes, if you can consider a quick dive, a few strokes in shallow water swimming, lol. So cold. Superior was like an instant brain freeze headache. I would like to maybe take the ferry someday across Lake Michigan between Lower Michigan and Wisconsin.

I had heard of ice sheets (I think it was on Malacks (spelled wrong) Lake and then saw a video online showing ice sheets coming off the lake and crashing into and inside people’s homes. Wow. Astounding.

 

[Taken]

Should a person be stoned to death for collecting firewood on the Sabbath?

That is broad question. The Law applied to the Hebrews/Tribes (not the Gentiles) and was accomplished/fulfilled.

The Tribesmen (primarily) all being called Jews, have a dilemma. (Speaking broadly, not for every single Jew.) They primarily have rejected Jesus as their Messiah, continue in custom to obey MOST of their Laws, but can NOT obey the MOST important Laws regarding the Yearly Sabbath, as they have NO Temple.

No they do not Stone men to death. As in the days of Jesus, a group of Jews wanted to Kill Jesus for “making Himself God”, but could NOT because aside from their “religious laws”, they were “subject to Roman Law” which it was unlawful for a Jew to kill another man. It was a fluke of circumstances between the Roman authorities and Jews of HOW and WHY Jesus was Crucified by a Roman executioner on behalf of Jews against Jesus.

 

[Patrick1966]

When I was a teenager, I had temporarily attended the "church of Christ" and they taught me that ONLY "their" church is the "true church" and they quoted Romans 16:16 in an effort to support their claim because it mentions the specific words, "churches of Christ" in that verse. Such a silly claim simply based on a name. They also proudly claimed they were not a denomination. I guess those who attend the church of God denomination could also try to use these verses (Acts 20:28; 1 Corinthians 1:2; 10:32; 11:22 etc..) in an effort to make the same claim that ONLY they are the "true church" based on the name "church of God." Anyway, I had temporarily attended that church with a friend and his aunt, and she was a very devout and thoroughly indoctrinated member of the church of Christ. After I stopped attending that church, a number of years went by and since then, I had received Christ through faith and was now a born again Christian.

As a new believer years later, I attended my friend's birthday party, and his aunt was there, and I shared this good news with her, expecting her to be excited for me but the only question that she had for me was, "where do you attend church?" When my answer was not "the church of Christ," she bowed her head in sadness as if to imply that I was still lost because I didn't say the "church of Christ." At that time, I was attending a Baptist church. Her husband approached me, and I shared the good news with him as well and he had the same question, "where do you attend church," and when I told him, and the answer was not the "church of Christ" his eyes glazed over followed by a cheesy legalistic grin on his face and he simply walked away from me and neither of them would speak with me for the rest of the night. I knew that something was terribly wrong! I could hear them both over in the corner going on and on about "salvation by water baptism" and that ONLY their church (the church of Christ) is the "true church." I quickly came to realize they were both deceived.

All Christians will agree about loving Jesus and loving one another. Beyond that, it generally goes downhill. There are countless legalists and denominationalists that believe everyone else is incomplete and possibly damned in spite of their belief. A social event probably isn't the place to get down into the weeds, so to speak, but you could ask them to get together and to study what the Bible says about various things.

 

[Patrick1966]

It was a fluke of circumstances between the Roman authorities and Jews of HOW and WHY Jesus was Crucified by a Roman executioner on behalf of Jews against Jesus.

Yea, and the joke was on them. Jesus played them like fiddles.

 

[Patrick1966]

Should a person be stoned to death for collecting firewood on the Sabbath?

Of course. Funny you ask. I saw my neighbor doing so this past weekend and now he's with God.

 

[Wrangler]

Can you expand on what you mean by no strings?

I can but I won't. 1st, I think you know what it means. 2nd, I don't speak a unique language. I speak English, were words and idioms are already defined. 3rd, your search engine works as well as mine to understand better this expression.

Question; in the context of what you have written above how do you view the covenant God made with Abraham? Genesis 15:10-12
Covenant binding till death "Abraham" experienced a figurative death
He was not awake when the covenant was made - God was saying he could not honour its terms only God could.

Not sure why you are asking this. Consider What is the Abrahamic Covenant? – NIV Bible | Genesis 12:1-3

The Abrahamic Covenant​

The Abrahamic covenant comes in a series of three covenantal interactions between God and Abraham, which build upon each other (Genesis 12:1–3; Genesis 15:1–21; and Genesis 17:1–27). Through these interactions, three overarching promises are made by God:​

​

1 – Abraham would be given land (12:1)​

​

2 – From him would come a great nation – even though he and his wife had not been able to have children at the time the promise was made (12:2; 15:2)​

​

3 – Through God’s blessing of Abraham and his descendants the whole earth would be blessed (12:3)​

​

Key aspects of this covenant are its unconditional elements, its universal benefit, and its everlasting nature.​

Just because some covenants require something from both sides does not mean that all covenants must. Today we might say "God promised." The point is that unlike a contract, a covenant is unconditional. So for us, it means we are to keep our faith in Christ EVEN IF God does not answer all our prayers the way we'd like, etc.

Hope this answers your question.

 

[face2face]

Belief IS a Works of a man, unto a mans Soul Salvation.

I'd be interested in testing this claim when the very belief itself is of God.

 

[St. SteVen]

Taken said:
Belief IS a Works of a man, unto a mans Soul Salvation.

I'd be interested in testing this claim when the very belief itself is of God.

It's an interesting question.
I don't believe we can save ourselves by an act of our own will.
But that's because I believe everyone is already saved.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

But for an evangelical, that's a difficult question.

Can anyone be saved without doing the WORK of receiving the free gift of salvation?
Those who don't, are STILL lost, correct? (having NOT received the free gift of salvation)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

But what of those who never had the opportunity?

UR solves a lot of doctrinal problems. - LOL

 

[face2face]

Not sure why you are asking this. Consider What is the Abrahamic Covenant?

Only to note Abraham didn't take part in making the covenant (Yahweh made it!); he slept (figurative death & resurrection) Genesis 15.

Paul wrote: In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17 because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. (Heb. 9:16-17,). As the covenant-victim, Christ "confirmed the promises made unto the fathers" (Rom 15:8), and made their fulfilment certain. What of those who break the covenant made with Yahweh through Christ? Their fate is to be figuratively "cut asunder" (Matt 24:51; Luke 12:46). Figuratively speaking please!

F2F

 

[face2face]

Taken said:
But that's because I believe everyone is already saved.

Well, we have already proven this theory is ridiculous and not taught anywhere in the Word of God...though I assume you will persist with it until this reality is absorbed into your consciousness. Why not read some of the posts on the entering the covenant and how faith is a prerequisite in doing so. All peoples do not have the faith of Abraham so they cannot be in a saved state.

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, Eph 2:8 (Ref attached for you SteVen.)

This would read much differently if we adopted your understanding.

Maybe something like this

For by grace you have already been saved. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, (Gospel according to SteVen.)

F2F

 

[face2face]

@face2face
This is the law Jesus was referring to.
Which is obviously different than our modern standard.
Deuteronomy 22:13-18

Can you state clearly what you are proving here.
F2F

 

[face2face]

Just because some covenants require something from both sides does not mean that all covenants must.

Agree.

Today we might say "God promised." The point is that unlike a contract, a covenant is unconditional.

In terms of God fulfilling His promises, absolutely.

So for us, it means we are to keep our faith in Christ EVEN IF God does not answer all our prayers the way we'd like, etc.

Hope this answers your question.

Amen.

 

[face2face]

Should a person be stoned to death for collecting firewood on the Sabbath?

A known desecrator of the Sabbath was to be punished with death (Exod 31:14-15), but how it was to be carried out had
not been established!

Did you notice the significance of how?
Why did God make it this way SteVen?
What do you think was the lesson?

F2F

 

[St. SteVen]

Can you state clearly what you are proving here.

See post #151

Denominations that teach only they will be saved

St. SteVen said: Is there biblical support for that? Or is it just religious dogma? Not biblical, then? Yes biblical, but to busy to do research for you.

www.christianityboard.com

 

[St. SteVen]

A known desecrator of the Sabbath was to be punished with death (Exod 31:14-15), but how it was to be carried out had
not been established!

Not been established? Not as I remember it. See below.

Numbers 15:32-36 NIV
While the Israelites were in the wilderness, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day.
33 Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly,
34 and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him.
35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp.”
36 So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the Lord commanded Moses.

 

[St. SteVen]

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, Eph 2:8 (Ref attached for you SteVen.)

Yes, thanks for including the reference. Big help. (I mean... I knew this one, but...)

Maybe something like this

For by grace you have already been saved. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, (Gospel according to SteVen.)

Well... that is what it means, right?

 

[face2face]

Yes, thanks for including the reference. Big help. (I mean... I knew this one, but...)

Well... that is what it means, right?

Funny man!