Does Daniel 9:24 describe what Christ accomplished and fulfilled at Calvary?
And was what He accomplished and fulfilled at Calvary only about the nation of Israel, or was it about the whole world?
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70 AD revisited
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And was what He accomplished and fulfilled at Calvary only about the nation of Israel, or was it about the whole world?
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
You are not recognizing the Jesus spoke of two different tribulations. One relating to what happened in 70 AD which fulfilled His prophecy that the temple buildings standing at that time would be destroyed. Did you somehow forget He prophesied that? Do you somehow think that nothing in the Olivet Discourse has anything to do with that?
The other tribulation is global in scope rather than only local or regional has more to do with a high level of deception and such and it is immediately after that tribulation that Jesus will return. Paul wrote about that as well in 2nd Thessalonians 2.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
You said NOTHING about Daniel 9:24 in that post.
No, one thing we know is that you have no idea of what Daniel 9:24 is about. Of course those things have all occurred.
Did Jesus not make an end of sins by taking away our sins?
1 John 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
Did Jesus not already make reconciliation for iniquity?
Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
2 Corinthians 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Hebrews 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Did Jesus not finish the transgression?
John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
Hebrews 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Was Jesus, who is the Most Holy, not anointed long ago?
Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
Did Jesus not bring in everlasting righteousness by way of His death and resurrection?
Romans 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
So, tell me your understanding of how those things will be fulfilled.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
They cannot fulfill this. Only Jesus can and He did by dying on the cross for their transgressions.
Not all of them have. It has nothing to do with the entire nation not sinning. Everyone sins. Only Jesus could fulfill this prophecy. He made an end of sins by way of His death and resurrection which takes away the sins of those who believe in Him.
Why did you say nothing about this? Jesus already did that, did He not?
In what way exactly? Don't you, as a premillennialist, believe that wickedness will still occur after He returns to earth?
That isn't talking about all visions and prophecies. The KJV says "to seal up the vision and prophecy". It's talking about Daniel's vision and prophecy in particular. It was fulfilled long ago.
This is unbelievably sad. You are somehow not aware that the most Holy, Jesus, was anointed already long ago?
Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Acts 4:27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
How can you see this last one as being in progress when it relates directly to the destruction of the city and the sanctuary which you acknowledge has been fulfilled?
How can this not be fulfilled? After about 3 1/2 years of ministry, Jesus confirmed the new covenant with His blood. His sacrifice brought an end to the need to perform the old covenant sacrifices and offerings any longer.
No, you are wrong and couldn't be more wrong.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Making reconciliation for iniquity and bringing in everlasting righteousness is not for Christians? Have you never read the New Testament? Is your religion Judaism?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Non of that would prove anything.
You’re trying to control the narrative You may think those are worse to suit your own belief. It does not make it so.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
The war desolations continue today.
So you can’t try to interprett things however you want, it does not make it true.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
The city was destroyed by babylon. So that would not make it the great tribulation.
No. All we have to do is read the passage and interpret it in light of itself and the rest of scripture.
you also have to look in context of what Jesus was asked and answer those three questions.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
the only part of Dan 9 that describes that is the fact the messiah was cut of (killed)
are you going to read the first part of the chapter. Or continue to ignore it?
Dan 9 is about Israel
how many times do you have to be told this?
its not about Jesus coming to save the world..
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Matt concerned the end of the age, or the end of the time of the gentiles. When the final Roman Empire will be destroyed at the return of Christ.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
We don;t know what Dan 9: 24 is about?
read Dan 9: 1 - 23 to get the context
if you do not want to know what Dan 9: 24 is about its because you do not want to
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
it did not say he would forgive their transgressions, it said it was given for THEM to make an end of their transgressions
You could not be more wrong. Your interpreting the passage by your belief, not allowing the passage (the whole) to form your belief.
again, read 1 - 23.. What was Dan praying about. Why was he praying. Why was Israel in that situation?
You can;t ignore that
jeffweeder
Well-Known Member
Yes. Only Jesus could. Without blemish.
15 For this reason He is the Mediator and Negotiator of a new covenant [that is, an entirely new agreement uniting God and man], so that those who have been called [by God] may receive [the fulfillment of] the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has taken place [as the payment] which redeems them from the sins committed under the obsolete first covenant.
Clearly the whole world.
Jn 3
16 “For God so [greatly] loved and dearly prized the world, that He [even] gave His [One and] only begotten Son, so that whoever believes and trusts in Him [as Savior] shall not perish, but have eternal life.
17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge and condemn the world [that is, to initiate the final judgment of the world], but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 Whoever believes and has decided to trust in Him [as personal Savior and Lord] is not judged [for this one, there is no judgment, no rejection, no condemnation]; but the one who does not believe [and has decided to reject Him as personal Savior and Lord] is judged already [that one has been convicted and sentenced], because he has not believed and trusted in the name of the [One and] only begotten Son of God [the One who is truly unique, the only One of His kind, the One who alone can save him].
19 This is the judgment [that is, the cause for indictment, the test by which people are judged, the basis for the sentence]: the Light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 For every wrongdoer hates the Light, and does not come to the Light [but shrinks from it] for fear that his [sinful, worthless] activities will be exposed and condemned. 21 But whoever practices truth [and does what is right—morally, ethically, spiritually] comes to the Light, so that his works may be plainly shown to be what they are—accomplished in God [divinely prompted, done with God’s help, in dependence on Him].”
28 so Christ, having been offered once and once for all to bear [as a burden] the sins of many, will appear a second time [when he returns to earth], not to deal with sin, but to bring salvation to those who are eagerly and confidently waiting for Him.
Sin has been put away. What the world needs to do is repent before he comes again.
.
Act 17
30 Therefore God overlooked and disregarded the former ages of ignorance; but now He commands all people everywhere to repent [that is, to change their old way of thinking, to regret their past sins, and to seek God’s purpose for their lives], 31 because He has set a day when He will judge the inhabited world in righteousness by a Man whom He has appointed and destined for that task, and He has provided credible proof to everyone by raising Him from the dead.”
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Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
READ CHAPTER 9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My God I feel like I am talking to children.
can you show me in Daniel 9 where Ariel was praying for Christ to pay for anyones sins??
Replacement theology is evil and is not from God
Stop trying to replace israel with the church. Dan 9 is NOT about the church
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Dan 9 is not about any of these things
It’s about Israel. Where were under Babylonian rule according to the prophecy of a 70 year imprisonment according to Lev 26.The 70 years were almost over, And israel still had not repented.
Daniel prayed for God to remember his people. His city and his house. And he confessed his in and the sin of the people. And asked God to remember his covenant with them
Gods answer was according to this
His people would end their sin, and repent in 70 weeks of years..
Only the mystery came in (the church) because God know Israel would reject their messiah.. so the time allotted after the city is destroyed and the covenant for 1 week is signed is a gap which is the church, and is an unknown time period.
It has nothign to do with Christ paying for anyones sins
jeffweeder
Well-Known Member
Personally, I think this answers better to Jesus' discourse in Luke,
Luke 21:20-24 LITV
20) And when you see Jerusalem being encircled by armies, then recognize that its destruction has come near.
21) Then let those in Judea flee into the mountains; and those in its midst, let them go out. And those in the open spaces, let them not go into her.
22) For these are days of vengeance when all things that have been written are to be fulfilled.
23) But woe to the pregnant women, and the ones suckling in those days; for great distress will be on the earth and wrath on this people.
24) And they will fall by the mouth of the sword and will be led captive to all the nations. And Jerusalem will be trodden down by nations, until the times of the nations are fulfilled.
Jesus' prophecy here is of Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, ending with the the captivity until the fulfilling of the times of the gentiles.
On the other hand,
Matthew 24:15-21 LITV
15) Then when you see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (the one reading, let him understand),
16) then let those in Judea flee into the mountains;
17) the one on the housetop, let him not go down to take anything out of his house;
18) and the one in the field, let him not turn back to take his garment.
19) But woe to the ones having a child in womb, and to those suckling in those days!
20) And pray that your flight will not occur in winter nor in a sabbath.
21) For there will be great affliction, such as has not happened from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever will be.
In Matthew's discourse, Jesus is prophesying the abomination of desolation ala Daniel, and subsequent flight from Judea, followed by affliction that would end all life if not cut short, ending in Jesus' return and rescue of His chosen.
Much love!
Although Jesus prophesied in Matthew 24 that "all flesh" would die if He didn't return to stop it. So rather than being "merely" against the Jewish people, this affliction will threaten all humanity. For the sake of Israel, Jesus ends it, returning to rescue His people.
Myself, I look at His words as describing a certain time in history in which this happens, rather then times of affliction interspersed with more peaceful times. Rather that this is affliction that continues and worsens, until, again, all humanity is threatened.
Much love!
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Jesus put an end to the penalty of sin to those who are his
he did not put an end to sin, we still sin
but again, its not about Us, its about israel.. who has been in sin since long before she was taken captive by babylon
Daniel 9:24 LITV
24) Seventy weeks are decreed as to your people, and as to your holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make atonement for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy.
For myself, I find this here:
Romans 11:25-27 LITV
25) For I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be wise within yourselves, that hardness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the nations comes in;
26) and so all Israel will be saved, even as it has been written, "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, and He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob.
27) And this is My covenant with them, when I take away their sins."
Isaiah 59:20-21 LITV
20) And the Redeemer comes to Zion, and to those in Jacob who turn back from their rebellion, declares Jehovah.
21) As for Me, this is My covenant with them, says Jehovah: My Spirit who is on you, and My Words which I have put in your mouth, shall not depart out of your mouth, or out of the mouth of your seed, or out of the mouth of your seed's seed, from now on and forever, says Jehovah.
Much love!
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