The Hell Doctrine - No doctrinal unity

[Keiw]

I quote Scriptures all the time. You avoid them. Quit giving us your Watch Tower opinions. Give us Scripture! Even your NWT says you're WRONG!

You refuse to believe Jesus over what your religion twists in contradicting him.

 

[Keiw]

Correction the Book of Job mentions Satan....in fact it is the Book where Satan is actually and mostly mentioned in the Old Testament. In Job he is not identified as a demon. At that point he is welcome in the Holy Court of God...reading as it is, it was a normal occurrence for him to appear there with no indication of animosities between him and Yahweh. The topic turns to Job and they both agree to test him. At one time Satan was a senior angel and it appears in Job that he was the tester of righteousness. Not yet an enemy of God and Man.

Which brings up another topic....there is no agreement of the time period of the Book of Job, nor the fall of the Angels. Although the Jews do not believe in a devil they did and do believe in malicious spirits or maybe angels and the name Satan in Hebrew came to mean in general anyone that was an Adversary or Accuser or Opposer.

For example from the Jewish Virtual Library…
Satan in Judaism is not a physical being ruling the underworld, rather, in the Torah, the word Satan indicates “accuser,” “hinderer” or “tempter.” Satan is therefore more an illusory obstacle in one’s way - such as temptation and evil doings - keeping one from completing the responsibilities of tikkun olam (fixing the world). Satan is the evil inclination to veer off the path of righteousness and faithfulness in God

Satan doesn't rule the underworld-that is myth. The bible is clear, at the war in heaven,( Rev 12: 7-9) he and his angels( demons) were cast down to the earth. That is where satan lives-on earth. That occurred in 1914

 

[Keiw]

Correction the Book of Job mentions Satan....in fact it is the Book where Satan is actually and mostly mentioned in the Old Testament. In Job he is not identified as a demon. At that point he is welcome in the Holy Court of God...reading as it is, it was a normal occurrence for him to appear there with no indication of animosities between him and Yahweh. The topic turns to Job and they both agree to test him. At one time Satan was a senior angel and it appears in Job that he was the tester of righteousness. Not yet an enemy of God and Man.

Which brings up another topic....there is no agreement of the time period of the Book of Job, nor the fall of the Angels. Although the Jews do not believe in a devil they did and do believe in malicious spirits or maybe angels and the name Satan in Hebrew came to mean in general anyone that was an Adversary or Accuser or Opposer.

For example from the Jewish Virtual Library…
Satan in Judaism is not a physical being ruling the underworld, rather, in the Torah, the word Satan indicates “accuser,” “hinderer” or “tempter.” Satan is therefore more an illusory obstacle in one’s way - such as temptation and evil doings - keeping one from completing the responsibilities of tikkun olam (fixing the world). Satan is the evil inclination to veer off the path of righteousness and faithfulness in God

Satan doesn't rule the underworld-that is myth. The bible is clear, at the war in heaven,( Rev 12: 7-9) he and his angels( demons) were cast down to the earth. That is where satan lives-on earth. That occurred in 1914

This is wrong too. Actual linguistics do not translate Hades to Hell or grave. Hades was a Greco-Roman god the presided over an underworld prison also called Hades....it was the closest Greek word available so Christian writers used it, because there was no word in the Hebrew or Greek for a fiery place of eternal punishment so they borrowed Greek word Hades.

Again because there was no actual word for Hell back then, Christ used the illustration of a burning trash dump in the Valley of Hinnom (Gehenna) .

Its known FACT-Sheol=Hades=the grave.

 

[Jack]

You refuse to believe Jesus over what your religion twists in contradicting him.

It's not nice to tell lies.

Revelation 21
8 All liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

 

[Jack]

Satan doesn't rule the underworld-that is myth. The bible is clear, at the war in heaven,( Rev 12: 7-9) he and his angels( demons) were cast down to the earth. That is where satan lives-on earth. That occurred in 1914

Don't you know how to quote Scripture?

 

[Grailhunter]

Satan doesn't rule the underworld-that is myth. The bible is clear, at the war in heaven,( Rev 12: 7-9) he and his angels( demons) were cast down to the earth. That is where satan lives-on earth. That occurred in 1914

Did not say that Satan ruled the underworld.

Revelation 12:7-9 is the war between them in the future, not when they were initially cast out of heaven.

 

[Grailhunter]

Its known FACT-Sheol=Hades=the grave.

It is a known misunderstanding.

 

[Keiw]

It's not nice to tell lies.

Revelation 21
8 All liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

Then you are saying you believe Jesus who teaches--The one who sent him= Father is THE ONLY TRUE GOD? John 17:3--Otherwise its not me lying.

 

[Keiw]

Don't you know how to quote Scripture?

Every follower of Jesus knows scripture. So then why are you asking?

 

[Keiw]

Did not say that Satan ruled the underworld.

Revelation 12:7-9 is the war between them in the future, not when they were initially cast out of heaven.

That war occurred in 1914 when Jesus got his crown-Rev 6:1-2 Rev 6:4=ww1

 

[Keiw]

It is a known misunderstanding.

Yes misunderstood by trinitarians listening to blind guides.

 

[Instant]

Are people that go there stuck there forever?

Yes. Technically, they will spend eternity being tormented in the Lake of Fire.

 

[Instant]

Abraham explains to the Rich Man why he is there.
Do you recall the reason Jesus gave for the Rich man to be in hell?
Does that match your doctrine of why someone would be in hell?
If not, why would Jesus give that reason?

It never says why he went to hell. Abraham reminds him that in his life, he received good things, but Lazarus didn't, but Abraham never says that is why he is in hell, and even if you want to say it is, there is nothing indicating it was the only reason. As a matter of fact, based on what it says in verse 21, I am under the impression that the sin being pointed out is that the rich man was uncaring and unfeeling. This is in line with the teachings in James that says faith without works is dead. Yes, that would match my doctrine. I also have no reason to believe the man had any regard for God.

I am adding this to my original reply because it seems to confirm the rich man and his family didn't believe in God or have any regard for him. in verse 27 through 29, the rich man was asking for permission to send Lazarus to his brothers to warn them of the reality of God and hell so they would believe and avoid it, but Abraham said, "They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them." He also said, "If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead," verse 31, indicating their unbelief. That also agrees with my doctrine and why the rich man is in hell.

 

[Grailhunter]

That war occurred in 1914 when Jesus got his crown-Rev 6:1-2 Rev 6:4=ww1

LOL

 

[Grailhunter]

Yes misunderstood by trinitarians listening to blind guides.

LOL Yep I laugh in your general direction LOL

 

[Instant]

That's funny, thanks.
How do you define biblical inerrancy?

Do you mean the original manuscripts? (which are long gone)
The manuscript copies and fragments chosen by the translators? (from thousands of copies of copies of copies...)
Or the translations that were voted on and selected by committee in the 4th century? (the canons)
And which of the three canons is the inerrant one?

Do you know where the Bible came from?
Are you familiar with the term "Textual Criticism"?
Which of the three translation methods produced an inerrant Bible?

Majority Text vs. Critical Text vs. Textus Receptus – Textual Criticism 101​

Majority Text vs. Critical Text vs. Textus Receptus - Textual Criticism 101 - Berean Patriot

I will address this based on my beliefs. I believe the Textus Receptus was inerrant, and the Geneva Bible and the 1611 King James Bible and Authorized King James Version Bible were translated from the perfect manuscripts. As such, I fully trust any of them for accuracy. That does not mean there may not be minor translation issues where they had to come up with the best English word to translate Greek and Hebrew to, but I have full faith and confidence in my 1611 King James Bible and Authorized King James Bible. I find the modern translations far less trustworthy. As such, I am King James Only, but not because of absolute perfection, but because they came from absolute perfection, and I recognize that many new translations have been changed to get a copyright and to match doctrinal preferences.

 

[Grailhunter]

I will address this based on my beliefs. I believe the Textus Receptus was inerrant, and the Geneva Bible and the 1611 King James Bible and Authorized King James Version Bible were translated from the perfect manuscripts. As such, I fully trust any of them for accuracy. That does not mean there may not be minor translation issues where they had to come up with the best English word to translate Greek and Hebrew to, but I have full faith and confidence in my 1611 King James Bible and Authorized King James Bible. I find the modern translations far less trustworthy. As such, I am King James Only, but not because of absolute perfection, but because they came from absolute perfection, and I recognize that many new translations have been changed to get a copyright and to match doctrinal preferences.

Taking that into consideration that you have gotten your beliefs from the worst possible sources....it will probably be entertaining to see what you believe!!!

 

[Jack]

Then you are saying you believe Jesus who teaches--The one who sent him= Father is THE ONLY TRUE GOD? John 17:3--Otherwise its not me lying.

I do. And I also believe Thomas who knew Jesus personally.

NWT John 20 Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God!".

 

[Jack]

Every follower of Jesus knows scripture. So then why are you asking?

You seldom quote Scripture. You give your Watch Tower opinions.

 

[Jack]

The teachings of Jesus in every translation on earth back my teachers. The facts of true God worship history back my teachers.

Your "teachers" = Watch Tower!