The 10 Commandments are FOREVER

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M3n0r4h

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Pay attention.... Got this from ELM...

Some people feel the Law can never be changed, even to the crossing of a “t” or the dotting of an “i.” Those who believe this will be shocked at what the Bible says. The Law of God can be changed and parts abolished if God so desires. This is Progressive Revelation in action.

To show that the Law of God can be changed, or even abolished, it is necessary to see how historically the Law of God started, developed, and finally became the Old Covenant. We need to see how the Law was changed and altered from time to time from Adam to Noah. It later changed: from Noah to Abraham, again from Abraham to Moses, and from Moses to Samuel, then from Samuel to Ezekiel the prophet, and from Ezekiel to John the Baptist, and finally to Christ before His crucifixion.

The Law of God Starts in Genesis

To understand this matter clearly, we need to be reminded that when the apostle Paul talked about the Law of God, he plainly stated that Christians were no longer “under the law.” He then gave an illustration from that Law, of Sarah and Hagar recorded in Genesis (Galatians 4:21–31). This reference of Paul to the Law was long before Moses established the Old Covenant at Mount Sinai. The Book of Genesis itself was reckoned by Jews and by biblical authorities as the first book of the Law. The Law of God, commands of God given to man, begins with the first chapters of Genesis, not with the twentieth chapter of the Book of Exodus where the Ten Commandments and subsidiary laws were given for the nation of Israel.

What is the very first Law of God found in Holy Scriptures? The first Law is found in Genesis 2:16–17, with both a positive and a negative command. It is,

“And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, ‘Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil [bad], you shall not eat of it: for in the day that you eat thereof you shall surely die.’”

Genesis 2:16–17

God also recorded a judgment upon man if he would ever disobey God’s command and eat of the forbidden tree. That was “For in the day that you eat thereof you shall surely die.” Paul said that mankind found that this Law (indeed, any Law of God) was impossible to keep or to save a person. Before long, Adam and Eve were eating of the forbidden fruit and the Law, meant to keep them alive, espoused death for them. Spiritually that “death” of Adam spread to embrace the whole human race (Romans 5:12–21). This doctrinal fact is a prime teaching of the apostle Paul.

In the period from Adam to Noah, there were a few other laws of God recorded in the Holy Scriptures. There were laws against

murder (Genesis 4:15, 23; 9:6), immodesty (Genesis 9:23), wrong marriages (Genesis 6:1–4), and wickedness in general (Genesis 6:5).

Jewish theologians put these early laws into one package, with a few other laws and called them the “Laws of Noah.” These laws, mentioned especially around the time of Noah, were the only ones that Jews in Christ’s time (and even today) felt that all Gentile nations were specifically required to observe for a right relationship with God. In the time of Noah, no other laws were mentioned in the Scriptures as necessary to be kept. For example, the Sabbath was not a requirement during the first 2,500 years of man’s existence. There was no command in Genesis 2 that said that humans were required to observe the Sabbath day as God did on the seventh day of creation.

Let us look at the dissimilarities and see how God altered His laws many times. So, when you ask about the need to keep God’s Law, you first must determine what period of Law (and what laws) you mean. In no way are “laws of God” eternal or for application at all periods of time or for all people. One must be careful and not make such erroneous evaluations. Note some major differences.

The Vast Differences between the Patriarchal and Mosaic Legal Systems​

Under the Abrahamic covenant, God allowed his people to offer sacrifices anywhere they pleased (Genesis 12:7, 35:1; Job 1:5). Moses changed this law by commanding only the family of Aaron to attend to the sacred rites (Exodus 40:1–16) and those sacrifices could only be offered on the altar in the Sanctuary (Deuteronomy 12:13–14).

Abraham planted a grove (or sacred tree) in Beersheba (Genesis 21:33), but under Moses the use of groves became prohibited (Exodus 34:14; 2 Chronicles 14:3; Isaiah 17:8).

Jacob set up a pillar (Genesis 28:18), but this was later forbidden by Moses (Deuteronomy 16:22, margin).

God said in the time of Noah: “Every moving thing [i.e., all animals] that lives shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things” (Genesis 9:3), but with Moses only the beasts mentioned in Leviticus chapter 11 were allowed or disallowed.

There were no official feast days commanded in the time of Abraham, but with Moses, ordained festivals became required periods for attendance by all Israelite males (Leviticus 23).

There was no commanded Tithing at first. Tithing was not a law in the patriarchal period.

None of the patriarchs wore phylacteries (at least we have no record of such), but with Moses their use was commanded (Numbers 15:37–41).

The land did not have to rest every 7th year under the patriarchs (Genesis 41:34–35), but with Moses, the land rest was commanded (Leviticus 25:1–7).

Abraham married his half-sister with God’s full approval (Genesis 20:12), but this became illegal in the time of Moses (Leviticus 20:17).

Abraham was confederate with his Canaanite neighbors (Genesis 14:13), but no leagues with the Canaanites were allowed in the dispensation of Moses. Indeed, the Canaanites were to be exterminated (Deuteronomy 20:17–18).

There was also no commanded Sabbath law in the patriarchal period. However, in the time of Moses the Sabbath was first introduced as a law for Israelites to obey (Exodus 20:8; Nehemiah 9:14; Ezekiel 20:12) with stringent requirements that changed the very character of the 7th day of the week. Moses had now emerged on the scene and a profound change in religious essentials had come into existence for Israel.

The differences between the religious system of the patriarchs and that of Moses were dramatic. If a religious Israelite after the time of Moses could have been transported back to Abraham’s time and witnessed Abraham (not knowing who he was) performing his religious duties, he would have called him an unconverted heathen. And though it is made clear in the Scriptures that God knew Abraham “obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws” (Genesis 26:5), those laws (the Law of God in Abraham’s time) were very different from those later laws commanded to Moses and to the Israelites at Mount Sinai.

Indeed, for Abraham’s first 99 years of life he was not circumcised, later he built altars anywhere he pleased, he raised up groves, he offered no lamb at Passover, he kept no weekly Sabbath, he attended no holy feasts, he wore no phylacteries, he married his half-sister, kept no land sabbath [that is, no Sabbatical Years], and of all things he was allied with the Canaanites.

What God did in the time of Moses was to rescind the religious requirements of the Patriarchal period in favor of stricter laws ordained in the time of Moses. The two religious systems were so completely different that if one were to mix the teachings together, utter contradiction and confusion would result. There is no compatibility at all between the two systems.

However, some people today are so conservative in their views that they will not allow God to establish new religious systems different from previous ones. They cannot believe God would ever change ritualistic or ceremonial teachings that He once gave to His people. In no way is this true biblical teaching. Certainly God does not change His mind in overall philosophical matters that dominate His character and personality (Malachi 3:6), but He most decidedly changed His own religious systems in the past when He saw fit.

The other prime example of such vast changes in God’s laws, commandments, and teachings is God’s change from the Mosaic System to the advanced Christian System which depends not on Mosaic Law, but on the merits of grace. Diversities between the Mosaic and the Christian Systems are so pronounced that the two cannot be compared in a systematic sense. There is as much difference between the teachings of Christianity and Moses as there is between the Mosaic and the Patriarchal Systems.
no.

God's Law doesn't change anymore than God changes.

and God doesn't change.

once again, if God wanted to change anything, His Son would've made it undeniably clear in the NT.

what we actually see in the NT is the opposite of that.

He upholds, reiterates and reconfirms all of the 10 Commandments and His message is so clear to those who walked beside Him and learned directly from His mouth to their ears that they obeyed the 10 Commandments from the night of His death until 300 years after when the Catholic Church was established and began changing everything.
 
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1stCenturyLady

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no.

God's Law doesn't change anymore than God changes.

and God doesn't change.

once again, if God wanted to change anything, His Son would've made it undeniably clear in the NT.

what we actually see in the NT is the opposite of that.

He upholds, reiterates and reconfirms all of the 10 Commandments and His message is so clear to those who walked beside Him and learned directly from His mouth to their ears that they obeyed the 10 Commandments from the night of His death until 300 years after when the Catholic Church was established and began changing everything.
and @Pierac

There are laws in the Old Testament that look forward to being fulfilled by who they represent - Jesus. Leviticus 23. All these holy convocations have been fulfilled in Christ.

The Ten Commandments which is the covenant, (Ex. 34:28) are for sinners and are still in effect for all whose sins have NOT been taken away by Christ. Sinners will be judged by them. They are all sins unto death, which is why the Old Covenant is the ministry of death.

The New Covenant is the ministry of the Spirit and are based on belief and abiding in Christ. Here are the commandments of the New Covenant. They are written on our conscience and are revealed from faith to faith. In other words by the Author and Finisher of our faith in levels of obedience. Not only are they written on our conscience, but we MUST be born again of the Spirit to keep them.

If you have never been born again of the Spirit, repent of your human weaknesses and ask that you receive the POWER of the Holy Spirit to become righteous, and eventually in this lifetime, holy.

1 John 3:23 (in context)
21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Romans 1:16-17
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”

Philippians 3:16
16 Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us be of the same mind.
 

face2face

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Are you saying because Jesus went through the physical circumcision of his flesh when he was eight years old, that His physical circumcision is now ours if we abide in him? So what is cut off of us by Christ?
Jesus was born of a woman; born under the Law, so he was not unlike the "Jews outwardly" of the circumcision, which is outward in the flesh, according to the letter; "like natural Israel", though Jesus by his example lived perfectly the "circumcision of the heart" as a Jew "inwardly".
So we are told 1st that Christ verified the Gospel as a "minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers" (Rom 15:8), and was then carried forth by "them", the apostles, that "the Gentiles might glorify God for His mercy". Like the alter made without hands, the Lords circumcision was likewise without hands (no involvement of flesh).
To answer your question the process of being circumcised in heart is the same process of suffering to learn obedience which Christ experience in his walk and probation.

There is no other way.

In the end it is God who raises one to newness of life.

Luke 12:50 provides the insight into this cutting away (or putting to death the flesh)

I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how great is my distress (means agony) until it is accomplished!

F2F
 

Grailhunter

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The New Covenant is a completely different animal. You can hardly compare it to the Old Covenant.

Old Covenant – to recognize sin, Romans 7:13
- Memorization
- Keep the letter of the law by human willpower with a sin nature
- Responsible to learn all the laws
- Break one you break them all -
Circumcision with knife - physical -
Sign of the covenant – Sabbath day Exodus 31:13 - kept by letter of the law once a week
Ministry of Death, but those saints believing in God, He will pass over their sins.


New Covenant - freedom from sin, John 8:32-36

- Must be born again
- Repent to receive the Holy Spirit - Circumcision without hands – cutting away sin and Satan’s influence from our nature – spiritual 1 John 5:18; 1 John 3:4-5; 8-9
- Laws are supernaturally written on our conscience in levels, from faith to faith, or from obedience to obedience to be sinless, kept supernaturally by the power of the Holy Spirit within.
- Sinless, and the Spirit keeps us sinless. Righteous
- Ministry of the Spirit
- Sign of the New Covenant – the CUP of the New Covenant, 1 Corinthians 11:25
- Live up to the light and level of faith you have been given, Philippians 3:16, even if it isn't all the light there is, or that you'll ever receive in a future level of faith/obedience.
- keep the spirit of the Sabbath everyday, every hour, every minute - as we abide and rest in Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath.
- What He starts He will finish to perfection. Hebrews 12:2
- Mature in all the fruit of the Spirit 2 Peter 1:5-7 Perfection and Holy

Good post.

This topic in not rocket science. The reason that it looks confusing is that they try to practice Judaism and Christianity at the same time. That makes for a very confusing religion. Christ warned against that and said it would ruin both.

There are 613 Mosaic Laws and I do recommend that Christians learn them. Some people think that the 10 laws in chapter 20 of Exodus are separate laws....but if you know the Mosaic Law, then you know they are just summaries of the full laws that are part of the Mosaic Law. And they are not actually the ten laws that God called the Ten Commandments and had Moses write them on the Tablets, but that is another story.

Back in college they produced a handout that had 50 Old Testament scriptures that indicated that the Mosaic Laws were eternal....for ever... I did not count them and did not verify if there were more or less.

When you get on Christian sites it is all about the Mosaic Laws not being eternal.

Christ said the Law would not change.....warned against changing it.....but then said until all things are accomplished.

What is the confusion?

The only people that get really confused are those that try to mix Christianity with Judaism....more clearly mix the Old Covenant with the New Covenant.

The Mosaic Laws are eternal....and as Christ added.... until all things are accomplished....But they are eternal for those that hold to the Old Covenant....that old agreement with God. They are still in effect now! For those that still hold to the Old Covenant with God....but there is no salvation in the old agreement with God....Obeying Old Testament Laws will not save you.

But the Mosaic Laws do not apply to the New Covenant....the new agreement with God. They do not apply to Christians. Christians are not under the Old Covenant Laws....none of them. In fact if you mess around and make them part of your religion....You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
Galatians 5:4

Then you have.
When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. Hebrews 6:13
 
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1stCenturyLady

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Good post.

This topic in not rocket science. The reason that it looks confusing is that they try to practice Judaism and Christianity at the same time. That makes for a very confusing religion. Christ warned against that and said it would ruin both.

There are 613 Mosaic Laws and I do recommend that Christians learn them. Some people think that the 10 laws in chapter 20 of Exodus are separate laws....but if you know the Mosaic Law, then you know they are just summaries of the full laws that are part of the Mosaic Law. And they are not actually the ten laws that God called the Ten Commandments and had Moses write them on the Tablets, but that is another story.

Back in college they produced a handout that had 50 Old Testament scriptures that indicated that the Mosaic Laws were eternal....for ever... I did not count them and did not verify if there were more or less.

When you get on Christian sites it is all about the Mosaic Laws not being eternal.

Christ said the Law would not change.....warned against changing it.....but then said until all things are accomplished.

What is the confusion?

The only people that get really confused are those that try to mix Christianity with Judaism....more clearly mix the Old Covenant with the New Covenant.

The Mosaic Laws are eternal....and as Christ added.... until all things are accomplished....But they are eternal for those that hold to the Old Covenant....that old agreement with God. They are still in effect now! For those that still hold to the Old Covenant with God....but there is no salvation in the old agreement with God....Obeying Old Testament Laws will not save you.


But the Mosaic Laws do not apply to the New Covenant....the new agreement with God. They do not apply to Christians. Christians are not under the Old Covenant Laws....none of them. In fact if you mess around and make them part of your religion....You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
Galatians 5:4

Then you have.
When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. Hebrews 6:13
What are the commandments of Jesus? John 15:10
 

Grailhunter

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They are certainly a pure copy, but Christ's are more specific to the New Covenant. They are what Jesus taught which are....
Simple they make sense....
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” Matthew 22:37-40
 
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face2face

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They are certainly a pure copy, but Christ's are more specific to the New Covenant. They are what Jesus taught which are....
What makes the commandment "New", is no one ever loved another as Christ has loved you!

That "love" for one's neighbor was an ancient command with roots deeply embedded in the Law (See Lev 19:18 cp Mat 22:39).

What was "new" about such a commandment? Only its application and the manner in which it was to be practiced amongst the brothers and sisters: "as I have loved you... "

The disciples didnt understand till later. That night he was to go out to meet "the prince of this world" (John 14:30), and allow himself to be crucified that the "ungodly" and "sinners" might have opened up to them the way leading to eternal salvation (Rom 5:6, 8).

This was what Christ required of his disciples, with his "new" commandment: that his followers learn to love one another to the point of
total self-sacrifice, if need be.

"Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends" (Jn 15:13).

F2F
 

1stCenturyLady

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You know the commandments of Jesus.....which He said you could hang all of the Mosaic Laws
Do you recognize the eternal laws you are quoting? But how these point to Jesus without whom we could not be saved?


1 John 3:23 (in context)
21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

cc: @face2face
 

face2face

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Do you recognize the eternal laws you are quoting? But how these point to Jesus without whom we could not be saved?
1st, yes all these eternal laws & promises are "yes" in Christ Jesus.
 
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face2face

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Do you recognize the eternal laws you are quoting? But how these point to Jesus without whom we could not be saved?


1 John 3:23 (in context)
21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

cc: @face2face
We need to distinguish the difference between the wisdom of the Law, from it's curse.
 

face2face

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Seeing as we had the Ten Commandments, why did Jesus come. What was missing?
A living commandment "love one another as (I) have loved you" - no one fulfilled the enormity of God's law like God did through His Son. It's his living example of sel- sacrifice which fulfilled all the requirements of the law.

You may see why the substitution atonement can't work. Christ is a representative sacrifice, he is the "forerunner" and "example" (Read Heb 6:20 & 1 Pet. 2:21) it is for every disciple to "deny" himself and to "take up his stake" of self-sacrifice and "follow" the Son of God (Mat 16:24).

This is the way which leads to the kingdom of God.

If one believes Christ died instead of me, having paid a debt - then its less about his example to imitate and more about God being the debtor of salvation which He cannot be. Salvation is a gift not a debt owed.

A bit off topic but all related.

F2F
 

face2face

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Then you have.
When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. Hebrews 6:13
Referencing Hebrews 8:13

The same God who brought the old covenant into existence in anticipation of the new has now brought the fulfillment of the new. But the new, in turn, is so much better than the old that the old must give way to it. The purpose of the old has been accomplished, and hence it will soon disappear.

The Law has now grown old, been set aside, and will shortly (ie, 70 AD) disappear altogether. See Heb 12:26-29 and Hag 2:6. Promised in Dan 8:9-12,24; 9:26. "They will all wear out like a garment; the moths will eat them up" (Isa 50:9).

By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will SOON disappear.

The writer understood by "soon" that a date was fixed by God, being the destruction of Jerusalem, and hence the temple, in 70 AD. As a side note, if Hebrews were written AFTER the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple, the writer could hardly have avoided referring explicitly to the historical confirmation of his argument.

In terms of the benefit of the Law, its purpose and fulfillment, it all is the Wisdom of God and profitable for instruction in righteousness and able to lead one to Salvation (Christ).

F2F
 

amigo de christo

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and @Pierac

There are laws in the Old Testament that look forward to being fulfilled by who they represent - Jesus. Leviticus 23. All these holy convocations have been fulfilled in Christ.

The Ten Commandments which is the covenant, (Ex. 34:28) are for sinners and are still in effect for all whose sins have NOT been taken away by Christ. Sinners will be judged by them. They are all sins unto death, which is why the Old Covenant is the ministry of death.

The New Covenant is the ministry of the Spirit and are based on belief and abiding in Christ. Here are the commandments of the New Covenant. They are written on our conscience and are revealed from faith to faith. In other words by the Author and Finisher of our faith in levels of obedience. Not only are they written on our conscience, but we MUST be born again of the Spirit to keep them.

If you have never been born again of the Spirit, repent of your human weaknesses and ask that you receive the POWER of the Holy Spirit to become righteous, and eventually in this lifetime, holy.

1 John 3:23 (in context)
21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Romans 1:16-17
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”

Philippians 3:16
16 Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us be of the same mind.
I have a dire urgent message i need to get out to all .
TEST IT . This is something every person who calls upon the LORD needs to know . ITS what has been going on within
the churches , the world , the religons . i will send it in a second . Read it , test it and ponder deeply .
 
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amigo de christo

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Seeing as we had the Ten Commandments, why did Jesus come. What was missing?
IF one were to desire to rule over the world and have the devotion and support of the world
THEY gonna have to preach something that can UNIFY not only all religions but secular humanity as well .
THUS they gonna have to come up with an ideal , a COMMON GROUND idea , that will UNITE them as one
under such men .
ANY GUESSES on what that might be .
IF one wants to unite the religions , they must
begin to remove the fundamentals of those religoins .
CAUSE we all know we dont believe as a muslim nor as a hindu , nor do they as us .
SO TO UNITE the religions
YOU MUST find what they have in common . AND remove the fundamentals of their core religion
and slowly replace it with what they all have in common . SO THEY DID THIS .
Fundamental core values became more and more seen as a disease and an offence and things
that divide . WHAT UNITES RELIGIONS and HUMANITY
WELL ITS not gonna be FUNDAMENTAL TRUTHS . cause as i said atheist dont believe as we do
heck they dont even beleive in GOD
the muslims dont believe in the same GOD we do .
SO think about this . CAUSE ITS WHAT THEY BEEN DOING .
THEY HAD TO FIND OUT what THEY ALL HAD IN COMMON . COMMON GROUND IF YA WILL .
THEY had to break down the barriers , AKA remove the core fundamental truths .
AND REPLACE IT WITH SOMETHING that ALL HAVE IN COMMON .
A SENSUAL VERSION OF WHAT THE WORLD THINKS IS LOVE . THEY DID IT
and our churches , even our churches have been buying this strategy for years .
TILL NOW a TRUE BIBLCAL LAMB is seen as dangerous and in the way , non loving , etc.
IT WORKED . ALL RELIGIONS are now working on and focusing on what they have in common . HAVE BEEN .
THUS preach the word love a lot , also preach do good works , do good to humanity .
CAUSE AGAIN EVERY RELIGOIN teaches those concepts , EVEN ATHIESTS have those concepts .
NOW YA KNOW . NOW YA KNOW what the heck has been going on in our churches FOR YEARS and years .
NOW all religions and humanity , whether athiest or not is all UNITING under what they THINK IS LOVE
only it sure seems to accept evil and it sure seems to HATE BIBLICAL TRUTH .
ITS COMING FROM THE DRAGON MY FRIEND . But the lambs wont be and aint buying it .
 
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