The 10 Commandments are FOREVER

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Brakelite

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Any media outlet that expresses public opinion in any form, for example talk-back radio, is awash with concern over the current state of crime, violence, social addictions and morality. Much of the debate centers on law, what changes need to be made if any, and how to enforce those changes once made, or simply retain the status quo but strengthen penalties for transgression.

A few years ago our government in NZ was embarrassed by revelations that it had broken the law over some election issues. This was not just the ruling party, but also opposition parties who were found to be guilty, some quite seriously. The eventual response to this, after much discussion and pointing of fingers from all directions and red-faced obfuscating and fudging of issues, was a retrospective change to the law.

Sadly, this is not an unusual response from secular society. When enough people, and not necessarily the majority, but enough to make an impact, flout current law or ignore acceptable behaviour and openly rebel against current standards, the inevitable response from politicians, bereft of any real solutions and lacking for the most part personal moral conviction, lower the legal standard in order to accommodate the law-breakers. A glaring example of this several years ago in NZ was the lowering of the legal drinking age as a result of concern over underage drinking. Naturally, when the new law wasn’t sufficiently enforced even younger people took advantage of this new found ‘freedom’, and now society is reeling from the impact of binge drinking by minors. When an opportunity arose later to rectify the matter through a bill introduced and supported by several more insightful members of parliament, because of pride and self interest, the status quo won, and the problems remain.



With leaders like this, and parents all too willing to abrogate authority and responsibility for their children to the government and/or schools, or even worse with many, where the internet has become a de facto parent, children lack consistent role models and leadership to set a high moral example. Children are then left to themselves to find their own role models, and Satan is only too willing to oblige them, mainly through the entertainment industries. Anyone who is ‘good’ at something becomes a ‘star’, whether sportsmen or women, entertainers or actors or media ‘celebrities’, all promoted as the quintessential role model of the new age, yet most end up on the front pages of the tabloid newspapers for all the wrong reasons, having fallen headlong from the pedestal upon which they had been placed; and these ‘idols’ are found to be as prone to extra-marital affairs, drugs, alcohol abuse, violence, and fraud as the next door neighbour. Yes, ‘stars’ are human too.



We humans are very much like cows. If you put 100 cows into a paddock but leave gates open, an hour or so later there will be 20 cows in each of five paddocks, regardless of the sufficiency of feed in the first paddock. We all, like cows, constantly crave what we don’t need, touch which we ought to leave alone, go where we ought to walk away from, and welcome that which we should shun. We, like cows, need boundaries beyond which we should not venture. Sadly, like cows, we don’t always need open gates to encourage our waywardness. We push at the boundaries much like cows push at fences. We push until they give way, and we then establish new boundaries. In society, the power for the boundary is the judicial system, parental control, or school or business discipline. On the farm, it is electricity. In society, those powers enforcing the boundaries are under constant attack, and are currently being compromised to the point of extinction. In this country, murder is met with ‘life imprisonment’ with a non-parole period of 12 to 14 years attached. Sometimes less. Go figure.

When cows break down a fence, the first thing to be checked is the power. If it isn’t working, it is reconnected to the fence, the fence repaired, and the cows driven back to their former quarters. What kind of a farmer would one be if he moved the fence and left the power disconnected? Yet that is what society is doing with its progeny, and every subsequent generation is met with weaker and weaker defences against all out anarchy. Then we ring the radio stations and complain that our ‘neighbours’ children are lawless immoral reprobates and society gone to the dogs. Then we hang up, go back to our TVs and cocktail cabinets and blame the government. And children are particularly prone to the ‘cow’ problem. Ever seen a 3 yo not go through an open gate, or climb a fence if possible?



Ethical, moral, and civil boundaries are essential to the well being of society, they must remain constant, and they must be enforced. Accomplished musicians adhere to the laws of harmony, melody, and rhythm. The closer the musician keeps to the laws, the better is the music. The alternative, to rebel against the laws that govern music, results in punk rock.

The same applies to builders, who must adhere to the laws of engineering and physics etc that govern their trade. Any compromise or disobedience to those laws result in what we witness during earthquakes in places like Haiti.

Just as in art and trade, so also in all of life. We can only live to our potential as human beings if we obey the laws and parameters God has set for mankind and revealed to us through the Ten Commandments. The law of God is the eternal unchanging standard by which mankind will be judged, and for the transgression of which Christ died. Sin is transgression against the law, and the wages of sin is death. Only through the grace of God through Christ can obedience be attained, but obedience is none the less essential to gaining eternal life. God set the nation of Israel to be His witnesses in the midst of rampant idolatry and sinfulness in the surrounding nations. Sadly, through compromise and refusing to obey God by destroying the heathen pagan Canaanites, their abominations became “pricks in their eyes and thorns in their sides” and Israel failed in their God given opportunities. The church is now in a similar role. The church now stands as God’s witness to His power to establish His righteousness in the minds and hearts of His people. Let us not fail Him in these last days. Let us now recommit ourselves in holy consecration to obey, love, and share the gospel with a world lost in sin and idolatry. The world needs Jesus; the world needs to know Jesus loves them, and they will never know until we love them first, and demonstrate the power of God to change lives and make them conformable to His laws. The abundant powerful testimony of a life dedicated to God is the most effectual witness to a world dieing of starvation from a chronic shortage of Spirit filled standard bearers.



With many, obedience to the laws of God have become somewhat fudged, mainly through the acceptance of traditions which have led the church away from the express will of God. An incident in the OT (1 Kings 13: 1-34) reveals to us the importance of obedience to the express word of God. An unnamed prophet was given the task to rebuke the altar upon which king Jereboam was about to offer sacrifice. Because the Levites had refused to join Jereboam in his political machinations of ordering two separate places of worship in the northern kingdom, Jereboam was left with the only alternative but to make anyone a priest who applied, and making himself one also. The prophet in the meantime, after doing courageously what God had commanded, did not quite complete his duty. Told to leave the northern kingdom immediately after his commission, he dallied and relaxed under a tree. There another prophet found him and invited him home under the pretext of a lie. The result was death to the prophet from Judah. God deems obedience extremely important. Any message from a ‘prophet’ or angel or church, where it contradicts the former express commandment of God, should be utterly repudiated. That is where sola scriptura is such a safe option. Trusting in any man, be they priest or prophet, is placing your life in the hands of a mere mortal who is no more empowered to know and tell the truth than you are.



The Bereans of NT fame, refused to simply take Paul at his word choosing rather to search the scriptures for themselves in order to verify what Paul proclaimed. (Acts 17:11) If only the unnamed prophet would have been so careful, how differently would the story have turned out. Searching the scriptures for ourselves, never surrendering our individual judgment to another on the basis of academic status or popular reasoning, these are two safeguards against the perilous mistake in judgment that caused the death of one who once stood fearlessly for God.
 
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M3n0r4h

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But God wouldn't give us Commandments that were impossible for us to keep, Mantis.

That's why He gives us His Spirit to assist us, The Helper. His Advocate.

I have asked this question before, and just like other topics that nobody likes to address, most will never respond.

The question is:
Which Commandments are impossible for man to keep?

Let's discuss.
I love this and I couldn't agree more.

the arguments against the keeping of the 10 are so often completely illegitimate.

which Commandment, of the 10, is impossible for Christians to keep?

great question, indeed!
 

Brakelite

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Inherent in the Ten Commandments is the gospel. The first commandment has been edited by most but if we read the entire passage of scripture, we can readily see that God is not commanding us to do the impossible. The Ten Commandments begin:
Exodus 20:1,2. ” I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.You shall have no other gods before Me.”

In this small portion of the scripture is found the key to understanding our relationship to God’s laws, and how to find the power to obey them. Here is the gospel.
You may be thinking, “Hey, that first part isn’t a part of the law, because it doesn’t tell us something we must do or not do! Instead, it tells us of something God has done!!!”
Yes, exactly! And that’s the point. The entire Ten Commandments start with something God has done, and not with something we must do. “I am the Lord thy God who has….” God did not give us His law and then say, ” Okay, if you manage to obey, then heaven is yours”, knowing that we would fail. Which is precisely the inference, and by others a declaration, made by so many on this thread. He knows us well, that we are but dust: morally corrupt, and totally incapable in and of ourselves to render any righteousness that meets God’s requirements. That is why He starts His law with what He has done for us, and not what we are to do for Him.
God has delivered us from bondage. Every man, woman, and child throughout history regardless of time, race, or culture, had been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb. The deliverance God refers to is a direct reference to the Passover. To the blood of the Lamb. A deliverance only He has accomplished, all by Himself, and without any assistance from us. The Passover was symbolic of Calvary. The shed blood of the lamb pointed forward to the crucifixion. ( John 1:29; 1 Cor. 5:7)
So when God gave His law, He pointed first back to the Passover, which took place in the very recent memory of everyone who had left Egypt, which itself points to the future, the cross. And there you have the gospel embedded within the law, and far from being distinct from one another, the law and gospel compliment one another perfectly.
Isaiah 44:22 I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.
Notice that the part we play in redemption comes after God plays His part. “Come to Me, for I have (past tense) redeemed thee”. And notice also that Israel’s salvation and redemption and final entrance into Canaan was a process, not a one off act. First, the blood of the lamb brought deliverance from bondage, then came Sinai and the giving of the law, with the power to obey established already on the accomplished work of God whilst they were yet in bondage. Now consider that in context of Calvary...
Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Our obedience doesn’t activate God’s grace, as many charge Sabbath keepers in particular with. Accusing them of being legalists, or judaizers, earning their way to heaven. It is God’s saving grace that activates our law-keeping. The power for all true obedience is present in our realization of what God has already done for us in Christ by virtue of His ‘unearnable’ grace.

We are simply called upon to come alive to and walk in the victory and the freedom from bondage that Christ has won for us.

Without Christ as the center of the law, without Christ not only as the law-giver but also the empowering agent behind the law, the Ten Commandments degenerate into a mere idealistic code of ethics, a kind of religious “wish-list”. The same goes for all those who look at the law as an impossibly attainable goal; they leave Christ out of the equation, even claiming that it is theologically acceptable to believe that Christ’s death annuls the law.
God loves us out of sin, and God loves us into obedience.

Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Justified by Christ’s death, and sanctified by His life. Delivered from bondage by His blood, empowered to remain free by His Spirit.
And rather than impossible commands, with the love of Jesus motivating and empowering us, the precepts of the Ten Commandments become promises.

Exodus 20:2 ” I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.You shall have no other gods before Me.”
 

ButterflyJones

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breaking down walls , breaking down barriers . NOW YA KNOW WHERE ITS BEEN COMING FROM .
removing core truths and finding out what all have in common . THEY DID THIS
and i am so sad so many have bought into it
Agreed.

The mistake I think we make and that what compounds that sorrow is if , when, we labor to try and change such minds as that of the deceived ones.
This goes for any conflict topic within Apologetics

God told us the things of God,aka his imperishable truth, cannot be understood by the natural mind because that mind thinks it folly.

We won't change that condition. Only the Holy Spirit can do that .

Even Jesus told his Disciples the reason he taught in parables was so not all would understand and come to repentance. Mark 4.

Thus fulfilling the prophecy in Isaiah, as Matthew 13 tells us.
“’You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. "


 
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Jack

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Galatians 3
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse;
 
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M3n0r4h

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Galatians 3
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse;
"My covenant will I not break nor alter (forever) the thing that has gone out of My lips."
Psalms 89:34

"For I am the Lord, I change not; ..."
Malachi 3:6

Jesus' closest disciples kept the Law the night of His death and for 300 years after.
Luke 23:54-56

Paul kept the Law.
Acts 21:24

Jesus taught the keeping of the Law.
Matt. 23:1-3

Jesus kept the Law.
John 15:10

we are to do as Jesus did.
1 John 2:6

the Law is defined in the NT as the breaking of the 10 Commandments to show that it still applies to Christians today.
1 John 3:4
 

Jack

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"My covenant will I not break nor alter (forever) the thing that has gone out of My lips."
Psalms 89:34

"For I am the Lord, I change not; ..."
Malachi 3:6

Jesus' closest disciples kept the Law the night of His death and for 300 years after.
Luke 23:54-56

Paul kept the Law.
Acts 21:24

Jesus taught the keeping of the Law.
Matt. 23:1-3

Jesus kept the Law.
John 15:10

we are to do as Jesus did.
1 John 2:6

the Law is defined in the NT as the breaking of the 10 Commandments to show that it still applies to Christians today.
1 John 3:4
So you believe in executing gays, adulterers and those who work on weekends as Moses COMMANDED?
 
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M3n0r4h

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So you believe in executing gays, adulterers and those who work on weekends as Moses COMMANDED?
only if Jesus says so.

show us all the verse where Jesus Commands that and I'll believe it.
 

Jack

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only if Jesus says so.
What? lol
show us all the verse where Jesus Commands that and I'll believe it.
Did you forget what YOU said, implying executing of gays, adulterers and those good folks who work on weekends:

"My covenant will I not break nor alter (forever) the thing that has gone out of My lips."
Psalms 89:34

Jesus gave us the New Covenant which you avoided quoting.
 
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M3n0r4h

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What? lol

Did you forget what YOU said implying executing of gays, adulterers and those good folks who work on weekends:

"My covenant will I not break nor alter (forever) the thing that has gone out of My lips."
Psalms 89:34

Jesus gave us the New Covenant which you avoided quoting.
look again:

"My covenant will I not break nor alter (forever) the thing that has gone out of My lips."
Psalms 89:34

"For I am the Lord, I change not; ..."
Malachi 3:6

Jesus' closest disciples kept the Law the night of His death and for 300 years after.
Luke 23:54-56

Paul kept the Law.
Acts 21:24

Jesus taught the keeping of the Law.
Matt. 23:1-3

Jesus kept the Law.
John 15:10

we are to do as Jesus did.
1 John 2:6

the Law is defined in the NT as the breaking of the 10 Commandments to show that it still applies to Christians today.
1 John 3:4
 

Jack

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look again:

"My covenant will I not break nor alter (forever) the thing that has gone out of My lips."
Psalms 89:34
So you're promoting killing gays, adulterers and those who work on weekends. Even your family?
"For I am the Lord, I change not; ..."
Malachi 3:6
God didn't change. He gave us the New Covenant.
Jesus' closest disciples kept the Law the night of His death and for 300 years after.
Luke 23:54-56
Please quote the Scripture.
Paul kept the Law.
Acts 21:24
Really? Guess who wrote this.

Galatians 3:10
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse;
Jesus taught the keeping of the Law.
Matt. 23:1-3
They were under the Law. Jesus had not shed His Blood for the New Covenant.
Jesus kept the Law.
John 15:10
Whom did Jesus execute? His disciples who worked in the Sabbath? And He was with them while they worked on the Sabbath.
we are to do as Jesus did.
1 John 2:6
Did you even read John 2:6?

6 Now there were set there six waterpots of stone, according to the manner of purification of the Jews, containing twenty or thirty gallons apiece.
the Law is defined in the NT as the breaking of the 10 Commandments to show that it still applies to Christians today.
1 John 3:4
1 John 3:4 (NKJV)
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

And still no proof that Christians are to execute sinners!
 
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M3n0r4h

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So you're promoting killing gays, adulterers and those who work on weekends. Even your family?

God didn't change. He gave us the New Covenant.

Please quote the Scripture.

Really? Guess who wrote this.

Galatians 3:10
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse;

They were under the Law. Jesus had not shed His Blood for the New Covenant.

Whom did Jesus execute? His disciples who worked in the Sabbath? And He was with them while they worked on the Sabbath.

Did you even read John 2:6?

6 Now there were set there six waterpots of stone, according to the manner of purification of the Jews, containing twenty or thirty gallons apiece.

1 John 3:4 (NKJV)
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

And still no proof that Christians are to execute sinners!
AGIKgqNfux21SX_GduZVQRDKZcNvqwxGpwjvP5FY62v8sis=s900-c-k-c0x00ffffff-no-rj
 

Jack

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Guess who wrote this:

Galatians 5:1-4 (NKJV)

1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
 
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Jim B

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breaking down walls , breaking down barriers . NOW YA KNOW WHERE ITS BEEN COMING FROM .
removing core truths and finding out what all have in common . THEY DID THIS
and i am so sad so many have bought into it
John 3:16-17, “For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life. “Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Matthew 11:28-30, Jesus said, "Come to me, all you who are weary and are carrying heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”

1 John 4:8, "Whoever does not love does not know God, for God is love."

Those are exact quotes from God's word: the Bible.

@amigo can rant and rave with his message of judgement, division, and intolerance, but the above is what God's word says. Personally, I believe God. What about you?
 

Jim B

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I love this and I couldn't agree more.

the arguments against the keeping of the 10 are so often completely illegitimate.

which Commandment, of the 10, is impossible for Christians to keep?

great question, indeed!
Christians, being born of God, no longer need written instructions. We are guided by the Holy Spirit. We are fully His children and no longer need a instructor-servant over us.
 

Jim B

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Inherent in the Ten Commandments is the gospel. The first commandment has been edited by most but if we read the entire passage of scripture, we can readily see that God is not commanding us to do the impossible. The Ten Commandments begin:
Exodus 20:1,2. ” I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.You shall have no other gods before Me.”

In this small portion of the scripture is found the key to understanding our relationship to God’s laws, and how to find the power to obey them. Here is the gospel.
You may be thinking, “Hey, that first part isn’t a part of the law, because it doesn’t tell us something we must do or not do! Instead, it tells us of something God has done!!!”
Yes, exactly! And that’s the point. The entire Ten Commandments start with something God has done, and not with something we must do. “I am the Lord thy God who has….” God did not give us His law and then say, ” Okay, if you manage to obey, then heaven is yours”, knowing that we would fail. Which is precisely the inference, and by others a declaration, made by so many on this thread. He knows us well, that we are but dust: morally corrupt, and totally incapable in and of ourselves to render any righteousness that meets God’s requirements. That is why He starts His law with what He has done for us, and not what we are to do for Him.
God has delivered us from bondage. Every man, woman, and child throughout history regardless of time, race, or culture, had been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb. The deliverance God refers to is a direct reference to the Passover. To the blood of the Lamb. A deliverance only He has accomplished, all by Himself, and without any assistance from us. The Passover was symbolic of Calvary. The shed blood of the lamb pointed forward to the crucifixion. ( John 1:29; 1 Cor. 5:7)
So when God gave His law, He pointed first back to the Passover, which took place in the very recent memory of everyone who had left Egypt, which itself points to the future, the cross. And there you have the gospel embedded within the law, and far from being distinct from one another, the law and gospel compliment one another perfectly.
Isaiah 44:22 I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.
Notice that the part we play in redemption comes after God plays His part. “Come to Me, for I have (past tense) redeemed thee”. And notice also that Israel’s salvation and redemption and final entrance into Canaan was a process, not a one off act. First, the blood of the lamb brought deliverance from bondage, then came Sinai and the giving of the law, with the power to obey established already on the accomplished work of God whilst they were yet in bondage. Now consider that in context of Calvary...
Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Our obedience doesn’t activate God’s grace, as many charge Sabbath keepers in particular with. Accusing them of being legalists, or judaizers, earning their way to heaven. It is God’s saving grace that activates our law-keeping. The power for all true obedience is present in our realization of what God has already done for us in Christ by virtue of His ‘unearnable’ grace.

We are simply called upon to come alive to and walk in the victory and the freedom from bondage that Christ has won for us.

Without Christ as the center of the law, without Christ not only as the law-giver but also the empowering agent behind the law, the Ten Commandments degenerate into a mere idealistic code of ethics, a kind of religious “wish-list”. The same goes for all those who look at the law as an impossibly attainable goal; they leave Christ out of the equation, even claiming that it is theologically acceptable to believe that Christ’s death annuls the law.
God loves us out of sin, and God loves us into obedience.

Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Justified by Christ’s death, and sanctified by His life. Delivered from bondage by His blood, empowered to remain free by His Spirit.
And rather than impossible commands, with the love of Jesus motivating and empowering us, the precepts of the Ten Commandments become promises.

Exodus 20:2 ” I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.You shall have no other gods before Me.”
So Paul was wrong when he wrote in Romans 7:4 "In the same way, my brothers and sisters, you have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead in order that we may bear fruit for God"?

So much for the New Covenant!

God gave a set of rules to the Jews, effective until Christ came and set us free from the law.
 

Jim B

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"My covenant will I not break nor alter (forever) the thing that has gone out of My lips."
Psalms 89:34

"For I am the Lord, I change not; ..."
Malachi 3:6

Jesus' closest disciples kept the Law the night of His death and for 300 years after.
Luke 23:54-56

Paul kept the Law.
Acts 21:24

Jesus taught the keeping of the Law.
Matt. 23:1-3

Jesus kept the Law.
John 15:10

we are to do as Jesus did.
1 John 2:6

the Law is defined in the NT as the breaking of the 10 Commandments to show that it still applies to Christians today.
1 John 3:4
Christians are not under the OT law. Jesus died to fulfill all the law's requirements so that we have freedom in Christ.

Galatians 4:21-28, "Tell me, you who desire to be subject to the law, will you not listen to the law? For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by an enslaved woman and the other by a free woman. One, the child of the enslaved woman, was born according to the flesh; the other, the child of the free woman, was born through the promise. Now this is an allegory: these women are two covenants. One woman, in fact, is Hagar, from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery. Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. But the other woman corresponds to the Jerusalem above; she is free, and she is our mother. For it is written,

“Rejoice, you childless one, you who bear no children,
burst into song and shout, you who endure no birth pangs,
for the children of the desolate woman are more numerous
than the children of the one who is married.”
Now you, my brothers and sisters, are children of the promise, like Isaac."

Interesting that you omit 1 John 3:5! 1 John 3:4-5, "Everyone who commits sin is guilty of lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that he was revealed to take away sins, and in him there is no sin." The law is a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ. Once were are born again, we are free! We are not under the law! Hallelujah!
 
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M3n0r4h

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Guess who wrote this:

Galatians 5:1-4 (NKJV)

1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
are you Jack the ripper?
 
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