LGBTQ

[Wrangler]

Yes. A man when it is convenient. Otherwise a trans woman eh?

isn't it your view that cosmetic surgery can't change a man into a woman?

Again, you show your tendency to avoid questions. Neither the body of a man nor a woman is decadent. It was the choice to display it in an undignified manner. But you side stepped this contemptible choice and revealed your DOUBLE STANDARDS. The 'trans-woman' was correctly identified by you as a man - AS IF that in anyway makes the licentious choice morally justified.

We all know you are trying to use Christian's standards against them but you are not mature enough to address your side having their standards used against them. Your side's standard of self-identification does not hold up to scrutiny - even by you - when the criticism comes from Biden.

 

[Wrangler]

I never said she was a man.

Yes, you most certainly did say she was a man.

a shirtless man is debauchery?

 

[Wrangler]

What about false witness...or is it somehow not a sin to lie about ...

Sorry these are actual laws. Yes, emergency room doctors in Florida can now refuse to lift a finger to save the life of an LGBT person.

You are lying about these laws, which explains why you did not present a link to it. The laws allows medical professionals to treat a person based on their actual sex and not pretend gender. See the difference?

 

[RLT63]

and the poster I was speaking to views that this was a man.

And you agreed with him by calling the person a man

 

[RLT63]

I recall a case not long ago where a 10 year old boy came out to his family and was imprisoned by his mother and her boy friend in a dog kennel for day without food and water removing him from the kennel to beat him. Eventually mom called 911 claiming that he fell. He died hours later at the hospital, he had 18 broken bones, multiple cigarette burns and apparently cause of death was brain trauma from a blunt object, possibly a baseball bat.

But obviously that was just "tough love" and everyone should remember that he brought it on himself when he came out. So his suffering was his own fault.

No one here would claim that it was the boys fault, and that is not tough love, it’s child abuse and murder. I don’t know anyone that would condone it and I hope those parents were arrested and they get life in prison without parole.

 

[atpollard]

I'm not going to vet your claims but I'm going to assume they are BS and what the laws really do is protect minors from those that can ruin their lives

I found the LGBQT accusations online with references to actual Legislation:

Today, Gov. DeSantis signed HB 1069, which silences educators by prohibiting any instruction on sexual orientation or gender identity from Pre-K through 8th grade, SB 254, an extreme gender affirming care ban, and HB 1521, an anti-trans bathroom bill. Gov. DeSantis has also signed SB 266, which doubles down on his attacks on academic freedom, and SB 1580, a “License to Discriminate in Healthcare” bill that will allow healthcare providers and insurers to deny a patient care on the basis of religious, moral, or ethical beliefs. A sixth bill, SB 170, which would discourage cities from passing non-discrimination ordinances by raising the barriers to proposing ordinances and making it easier to challenge ordinances in court, is still to be signed by DeSantis.​

So let's read the actual legislation from a neutral source:

SB 254 (the actual Bill from the Florida Legislature)

1
2 An act relating to treatments for sex reassignment;
3 amending s. 61.517, F.S.; granting courts of this
4 state temporary emergency jurisdiction over a child
5 present in this state if the child has been subjected
6 to or is threatened with being subjected to sex
7 reassignment prescriptions or procedures; amending s.
8 61.534, F.S.; providing that, for purposes of warrants
9 to take physical custody of a child in certain child
10 custody enforcement proceedings, serious physical harm
11 to the child includes, but is not limited to, being
12 subjected to sex-reassignment prescriptions or
13 procedures; creating s. 286.31, F.S.; defining the
14 term “governmental entity”; prohibiting certain public
15 entities from expending state funds for the provision
16 of sex-reassignment prescriptions or procedures;
17 amending s. 456.001, F.S.; defining the terms “sex”
18 and “sex-reassignment prescriptions or procedures”;
19 creating s. 456.52, F.S.; prohibiting sex-reassignment
20 prescriptions and procedures for patients younger than
21 18 years of age; providing an exception; requiring the
22 Board of Medicine and the Board of Osteopathic
23 Medicine to adopt certain emergency rules within a
24 specified timeframe; requiring the boards to consider
25 specified factors in developing such rules; requiring
26 that such prescriptions and procedures for patients
27 older than 18 years of age be prescribed,
28 administered, or performed only with the voluntary and
29 informed consent of the patient; providing criteria
30 for what constitutes voluntary and informed consent;
31 providing that only a physician may prescribe,
32 administer, or perform such prescriptions and
33 procedures; defining the term “physician”; providing
34 applicability; providing for disciplinary action;
35 providing criminal penalties; requiring the Board of
36 Medicine and the Board of Osteopathic Medicine to
37 adopt certain emergency rules; providing that such
38 emergency rules remain in effect until they are
39 replaced by nonemergency rules; amending s. 456.074,
40 F.S.; requiring the department to immediately suspend
41 the license of a health care practitioner who is
42 arrested for committing or attempting, soliciting, or
43 conspiring to commit specified violations related to
44 sex-reassignment prescriptions or procedures for a
45 patient younger than 18 years of age; creating s.
46 766.318, F.S.; creating a cause of action to recover
47 damages for personal injury or death resulting from
48 the provision of sex-reassignment prescriptions or
49 procedures to a minor; providing that certain
50 limitations on punitive damages do not apply to such
51 actions; specifying the timeframe within which such
52 actions may be commenced; providing construction and
53 applicability; providing severability; providing a
54 directive to the Division of Law Revision; providing
55 an effective date.

SB 1580 (the actual Bill from the Florida Legislature)

1
2 An act relating to protections of medical conscience;
3 providing legislative intent; creating s. 381.00321,
4 F.S.; defining terms; providing that health care
5 providers and health care payors have the right to opt
6 out of participation in or payment for certain health
7 care services on the basis of conscience-based
8 objections; providing requirements for a health care
9 provider’s notice and documentation of such objection;
10 requiring health care providers to notify patients or
11 potential patients seeking a specific health care
12 service of any such objection before scheduling an
13 appointment; providing construction; prohibiting
14 health care payors from declining to cover any health
15 care service they are obligated to cover during the
16 plan year; prohibiting discrimination or adverse
17 action against health care providers who decline to
18 participate in a health care service on the basis of
19 conscience-based objection; providing whistle-blower
20 protections for health care providers and health care
21 payors that take certain actions or disclose certain
22 information relating to the reporting of certain
23 violations; authorizing health care providers and
24 health care payors to file complaints with the
25 Attorney General for violation of specified
26 provisions; providing for civil penalties; authorizing
27 the Attorney General to take specified actions for
28 purposes of conducting an investigation of such
29 complaints; authorizing the Department of Legal
30 Affairs to adopt rules; providing health care
31 providers and health care payors immunity from civil
32 liability solely for declining to participate in or
33 pay for a health care service on the basis of
34 conscience-based objection; providing construction;
35 creating s. 456.61, F.S.; prohibiting boards, or the
36 Department of Health if there is no board, from taking
37 disciplinary action against or denying a license to an
38 individual based solely on specified conduct;
39 authorizing boards within the department’s
40 jurisdiction to revoke their approval of a specialty
41 board or other recognizing agency under certain
42 circumstances; providing severability; providing an
43 effective date.

So SB 254 ACTUALLY SAYS that parents do not have the right to unilaterally decide to have their children surgically mutilated because the Parent wanted a different GENDER for the Child.

SB 1580 ACTUALLY SAYS that a LGBQT person cannot FORCE a clinic (like a Catholic Hospital) to perform non-emergency procedures that the clinic objects to on moral grounds. It states that Insurance companies can provide or not provide payment for services like Gender Transition as long as they disclose that information BEFORE you sign up for the policy.

• No "[COLORADO] Bakery" situations in the Florida Insurance/Healthcare industry.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Basically you are disagreeing with two people holding hands.

So what? The point is this. Other than the fact that homosexuality and other sexually deviant behaviors are wicked and will be punished, public displays of wickedness should not be allowed. Period. But, if you recall, I am calling for voluntary restraint of public displays of sexuality. But LGBTQ+ aren't satisfied with living a happy life under their own olive tree, (so to speak), these motherless children haven't learned how to behave among adults.

Do you know the meaning of dignity? Formerly, it referred to those in high society. It means "respect." I maintain that since God created man in his own image, all people deserve our respect for that reason alone. However, the choice is easier to make when and if people act in a dignified manner. If you want my respect, then respect yourself and don't degrade yourself in public.

Do you respect those who dance around in the street half-naked and act like a fool? I don't. I pity them and avoid them. But by all means, don't let them near your children.

 

[CadyandZoe]

I recall a case not long ago where a 10 year old boy came out to his family and was imprisoned by his mother and her boy friend in a dog kennel for day without food and water removing him from the kennel to beat him. Eventually mom called 911 claiming that he fell. He died hours later at the hospital, he had 18 broken bones, multiple cigarette burns and apparently cause of death was brain trauma from a blunt object, possibly a baseball bat.

But obviously that was just "tough love" and everyone should remember that he brought it on himself when he came out. So his suffering was his own fault.

Where was the boy's father? You know why boys "come out" don't you? They lack the love of a father and "coming out" is an appeal to be loved.

I see no evidence that the boyfriend loved the boy -- tough or otherwise. The mother was weak, needing the approval of a man. The boy was being ignored. I don't believe a 10-year-old ever "comes out" as a gay person. That's ridiculous. The ten-year-old was starving for attention and affection and dealing with his need the only way he knew how. (probably learned from his bent and broken culture.)

I suspect that the boyfriend suggested the cage so he and his lover might be alone more often to do "the thing." The mother probably didn't want the boy in the first place, being born of another unwed situation.

Am I saying that the boy ought to be treated that way, h--- no. But your interpretation of the situation does not ring true to real life.

 

[Wrangler]

I recall a case not long ago where a 10 year old boy ... obviously that was just "tough love" and everyone should remember that he brought it on himself when he came out. So his suffering was his own fault.

To pull out this Appeal to Strawman story is to make an absurdity of adulthood, to deny homosexual adults suffer because of their own choices.

 

[TinMan]

You cannot answer a question with a question. Where anyone puts their genitals is a choice, right?

You childish Appeal to Emotion, pretending it is all about hate is old. Grow up. Get passed your emotions. Look at the world from an adult perspective where facts, logic and moral principles - not emotions - rule.

And the fact is you are trying to use the existence of a virus to justify hate towards a minority but at the same time not wanting that same virus to be used to justify hate towards a different minority.

That isn't logical

and trying to use a virus as justification isn't moral either.

Your childish victim-mentality falsely deflects moral condemnation as hate. Homosexuality is inherently evil, on par with murder, suicide and abortion. Claims that murderers have an "orientation" does not change the fact that the action is inherently evil. Same with homosexuality.

Trying to associate a minority with murder isn't moral either.

 

[TinMan]

So, you deny people suffer from their own choices?

the boy deserved what he got right?

 

[TinMan]

Yes, you most certainly did say she was a man.

You are the one saying she i a man and displaying your double standards

 

[TinMan]

You are lying about these laws, which explains why you did not present a link to it. The laws allows medical professionals to treat a person based on their actual sex and not pretend gender. See the difference?

Fron the Florida law:
“Health care service” means medical research, medical
procedures, or medical services, including, but not limited to,
testing; diagnosis; referral; dispensing or administering any
drug, medication, or device; psychological therapy or
counseling; research; therapy; record making procedures; set up
or performance of a surgery or procedure; or any other care or
services performed or provided by any health care provider."

 

[TinMan]

No one here would claim that it was the boys fault, and that is not tough love, it’s child abuse and murder. I don’t know anyone that would condone it and I hope those parents were arrested and they get life in prison without parole.

I think wrangler just did

 

[TinMan]

I found the LGBQT accusations online with references to actual Legislation:

Today, Gov. DeSantis signed HB 1069, which silences educators by prohibiting any instruction on sexual orientation or gender identity from Pre-K through 8th grade, SB 254, an extreme gender affirming care ban, and HB 1521, an anti-trans bathroom bill. Gov. DeSantis has also signed SB 266, which doubles down on his attacks on academic freedom, and SB 1580, a “License to Discriminate in Healthcare” bill that will allow healthcare providers and insurers to deny a patient care on the basis of religious, moral, or ethical beliefs. A sixth bill, SB 170, which would discourage cities from passing non-discrimination ordinances by raising the barriers to proposing ordinances and making it easier to challenge ordinances in court, is still to be signed by DeSantis.​

So let's read the actual legislation from a neutral source:

SB 254 (the actual Bill from the Florida Legislature)

1
2 An act relating to treatments for sex reassignment;
3 amending s. 61.517, F.S.; granting courts of this
4 state temporary emergency jurisdiction over a child
5 present in this state if the child has been subjected
6 to or is threatened with being subjected to sex
7 reassignment prescriptions or procedures; amending s.
8 61.534, F.S.; providing that, for purposes of warrants
9 to take physical custody of a child in certain child
10 custody enforcement proceedings, serious physical harm
11 to the child includes, but is not limited to, being
12 subjected to sex-reassignment prescriptions or
13 procedures; creating s. 286.31, F.S.; defining the
14 term “governmental entity”; prohibiting certain public
15 entities from expending state funds for the provision
16 of sex-reassignment prescriptions or procedures;
17 amending s. 456.001, F.S.; defining the terms “sex”
18 and “sex-reassignment prescriptions or procedures”;
19 creating s. 456.52, F.S.; prohibiting sex-reassignment
20 prescriptions and procedures for patients younger than
21 18 years of age; providing an exception; requiring the
22 Board of Medicine and the Board of Osteopathic
23 Medicine to adopt certain emergency rules within a
24 specified timeframe; requiring the boards to consider
25 specified factors in developing such rules; requiring
26 that such prescriptions and procedures for patients
27 older than 18 years of age be prescribed,
28 administered, or performed only with the voluntary and
29 informed consent of the patient; providing criteria
30 for what constitutes voluntary and informed consent;
31 providing that only a physician may prescribe,
32 administer, or perform such prescriptions and
33 procedures; defining the term “physician”; providing
34 applicability; providing for disciplinary action;
35 providing criminal penalties; requiring the Board of
36 Medicine and the Board of Osteopathic Medicine to
37 adopt certain emergency rules; providing that such
38 emergency rules remain in effect until they are
39 replaced by nonemergency rules; amending s. 456.074,
40 F.S.; requiring the department to immediately suspend
41 the license of a health care practitioner who is
42 arrested for committing or attempting, soliciting, or
43 conspiring to commit specified violations related to
44 sex-reassignment prescriptions or procedures for a
45 patient younger than 18 years of age; creating s.
46 766.318, F.S.; creating a cause of action to recover
47 damages for personal injury or death resulting from
48 the provision of sex-reassignment prescriptions or
49 procedures to a minor; providing that certain
50 limitations on punitive damages do not apply to such
51 actions; specifying the timeframe within which such
52 actions may be commenced; providing construction and
53 applicability; providing severability; providing a
54 directive to the Division of Law Revision; providing
55 an effective date.

and how many Florida children would this law been applicable in protecting?

Well none.

Children in Florida (or any other state) are not being subjected sex reassignment procedures
2

So SB 254 ACTUALLY SAYS that parents do not have the right to unilaterally decide to have their children surgically mutilated because the Parent wanted a different GENDER for the Child.

SB 1580 ACTUALLY SAYS that a LGBQT person cannot FORCE a clinic (like a Catholic Hospital) to perform non-emergency procedures that the clinic objects to on moral grounds. It states that Insurance companies can provide or not provide payment for services like Gender Transition as long as they disclose that information BEFORE you sign up for the policy.

• No "Oregon Bakery" situations in the Florida Insurance/Healthcare industry.

I think you mean Colorado bakery, that is where the owner of Masterpiece bakery refused to provide an advertised service to a minority couple.

 

[RLT63]

Fron the Florida law:
“Health care service” means medical research, medical
procedures, or medical services, including, but not limited to,
testing; diagnosis; referral; dispensing or administering any
drug, medication, or device; psychological therapy or
counseling; research; therapy; record making procedures; set up
or performance of a surgery or procedure; or any other care or
services performed or provided by any health care provider."

So???

 

[TinMan]

So what? The point is this. Other than the fact that homosexuality and other sexually deviant behaviors are wicked and will be punished, public displays of wickedness should not be allowed. Period.

Holding hands is wicked.

But, if you recall, I am calling for voluntary restraint of public displays of sexuality. But LGBTQ+ aren't satisfied with living a happy life under their own olive tree, (so to speak), these motherless children haven't learned how to behave among adults.

Do you know the meaning of dignity? Formerly, it referred to those in high society. It means "respect."

Is referring to a minority as "motherless children dignified or respectful?

no it's not.

I maintain that since God created man in his own image, all people deserve our respect for that reason alone.

even motherless children?

However, the choice is easier to make when and if people act in a dignified manner. If you want my respect, then respect yourself and don't degrade yourself in public.

Do you respect those who dance around in the street half-naked and act like a fool? I don't. I pity them and avoid them. But by all means, don't let them near your children.

I don't have any problem with people who dance being around my children. I do have issues with people who justify child abuse being around my (or anyones) kids.

 

[Wrangler]

Trying to associate a minority with murder isn't moral either.

Not an answer to the question. Is it a choice where one puts their genitals?

The minority associated with murder is moral when they are murderers, like homosexuals murdering Gods will.

 

[Wrangler]

the boy deserved what he got right?

Already answered

So, you deny people suffer from their own choices?

And not an answer to the question

 

[TinMan]

Already answered

So the boy got what he deserved.