Is there a difference in " FALSE " teaching & error in teaching ?

[David in NJ]

"I lay down My life so that I may take it again" This implies the resurrection. Usually in the NT it is the Father who raises the Son (cf. John 18b) to show His acceptance of His sacrifice. But here the power of Jesus Himself in the resurrection is asserted.

This phrase is an excellent opportunity to show that the NT often attributes the works of redemption to all three persons of the Godhead.

God the Father raised Jesus (cf. Acts 2:24; 3:15; 4:10; 5:30; 10:40; 13:30,33,34,37; 17:31; Rom. 6:4,9; 10:9; 1 Cor. 6:14; 2 Cor. 4:14; Gal. 1:1;Eph. 1:20; Col. 2:12; 1 Thess. 1:10)
God the Son raised Himself (cf. John 2:19-22; 10:17-18)
God the Spirit raised Jesus (cf. Rom. 8:11)

Would you agree?
Johann.

TV Show 'Jeopardy' = I'll take the category - 3 are ONE for Eternity

Answer: Who are FATHER/SON/HOLY SPIRIT

CORRECT!!!

 

[Johann]

No.

Your problem, not mine.
Johann.

 

[David in NJ]

Take a few moments to reflect on the Truth of God’s Word:

• But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him. Acts 2:24
• When he died, he died once to break the power of sin. But now that he lives, he lives for the glory of God. So you also should consider yourselves to be dead to the power of sin and alive to God through Christ Jesus. Romans 6:10-11
• The Spirit of God, who raised Jesus from the dead, lives in you. And just as God raised Christ Jesus from the dead, he will give life to your mortal bodies by this same Spirit living within you. Romans 8:11

OK - Reflection complete

What is your position of thought here?

Was it only the Father that raised Jesus from the dead???

 

[Johann]

That is a common and incorrect assumption. Did lay down his life means he committed suicide? No? Then taking it up was not a resurrection. He willingly allowed himself to be murdered which is not the same as suicide, and he took his life back up in the same manner Lazarus did when he stood on his own after being resurrected.

This is the reason why I don't want to dialogue with people such as you-always twisting and inserting what I have never said-

I gave you the scriptural answer-do with it what you wish.

The Bible indicates that all three Persons of the Trinity were involved in Jesus’ resurrection. Galatians 1:1 says that the Father raised Jesus from the dead. First Peter 3:18 says that the Spirit raised Jesus from the dead (see also Romans 1:4, and note that Romans 8:11 clearly says that God will resurrect believers “through His Spirit”). And in John 2:19 Jesus predicts that He will raise Himself from the dead (see also John 10:18). So, when we answer the question of who resurrected Jesus, we can say God did. And by that we can mean it was the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

have a blessed day
Johann.

 

[David in NJ]

This is the reason why I don't want to dialogue with people such as you-always twisting and inserting what I have never said-

I gave you the scriptural answer-do with it what you wish.

The Bible indicates that all three Persons of the Trinity were involved in Jesus’ resurrection. Galatians 1:1 says that the Father raised Jesus from the dead. First Peter 3:18 says that the Spirit raised Jesus from the dead (see also Romans 1:4, and note that Romans 8:11 clearly says that God will resurrect believers “through His Spirit”). And in John 2:19 Jesus predicts that He will raise Himself from the dead (see also John 10:18). So, when we answer the question of who resurrected Jesus, we can say God did. And by that we can mean it was the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

have a blessed day
Johann.

My Brothers Johann & @ewq1938 , it is 100% TRUTH to SEE the entirety of Scripture as ONE MESSAGE and THOUGHT which comes from the Godhead.

Example: John 5:24-30
“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. 30I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.


Hebrews ch10
Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”

PEACE and BLESSING be upon the Beloved in Christ = @ewq1938 and @Johann

 

[Ritajanice]

OK - Reflection complete

What is your position of thought here?

Was it only the Father that raised Jesus from the dead???

Did you read my post.

Romans 6:10-11. The Spirit of God, who raised Jesus from the dead, lives in you. And just as God raised Christ Jesus from the dead, he will give life to your mortal bodies by this same Spirit living within you. Romans 8:11.

The living word of God.

 

[David in NJ]

Did you read my post.

Romans 6:10-11. The Spirit of God, who raised Jesus from the dead, lives in you. And just as God raised Christ Jesus from the dead, he will give life to your mortal bodies by this same Spirit living within you. Romans 8:11.

YES and Thank You for those most Beautiful scriptures of Truth.

Did you see Post# 378

 

[ElieG12]

"I lay down My life so that I may take it again" This implies the resurrection. Usually in the NT it is the Father who raises the Son (cf. John 18b) to show His acceptance of His sacrifice. But here the power of Jesus Himself in the resurrection is asserted.

This phrase is an excellent opportunity to show that the NT often attributes the works of redemption to all three persons of the Godhead.

(...)

Would you agree?
Johann.

There is a translation issue with the Greek text here in John 10:17,18.

The Greek verb λαμβάνω that is translated in this expression "I may TAKE it AGAIN" means also RECEIVE.

It is not logical to translate it "to take again", since a dead person can't do anything for his dead body. If there was a non-dead Jesus alive that resurrected a dead Jesus, then there would be two jesuses, which is nonsensical.

That is why other translations say more or less in this way:

John 10:17 This is why the Father loves me, because I surrender my life, so that I may receive it again. 18 No man takes it away from me, but I surrender it of my own initiative. I have authority to surrender it, and I have authority to receive it again. This commandment I received from my Father.

Note that the same verb is translate as "to receive" in the last part of the verse 18 when Jesus says "I received this commandment from my Father". That "received" is the same word that is translated "to take". Why? Probably because the translators think that Jesus didn0t die really so he gave life to his own dead body, which as said before is ridiculous.

Translating ἐξουσία as "power" instead of "authority" as would be correct doesn't help either.

 

[Johann]

My Brothers Johann & @ewq1938 , it is 100% TRUTH to SEE the entirety of Scripture as ONE MESSAGE and THOUGHT which comes from the Godhead.

Example: John 5:24-30
“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. 30I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.


Hebrews ch10
Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”

PEACE and BLESSING be upon the Beloved in Christ = @ewq1938 and @Johann

Shalom to you and precious family David
Johann.

 

[David in NJ]

There is a translation issue with the Greek text here in John 10:17,18.

The Greek verb λαμβάνω that is translated in this expression "I may TAKE it AGAIN" means also RECEIVE.

It is not logical to translate it "to take again", since a dead person can't do anything for his dead body. If there was a non-dead Jesus alive that resurrected a dead Jesus, then there would be two jesuses, which is nonsensical.

That is why other translations say more or less in this way:

John 10:17 This is why the Father loves me, because I surrender my life, so that I may receive it again. 18 No man takes it away from me, but I surrender it of my own initiative. I have authority to surrender it, and I have authority to receive it again. This commandment I received from my Father.

Note that the same verb is translate as "to receive" in the last part of the verse 18 when Jesus says "I received this commandment from my Father". That "received" is the same word that is translated "to take". Why? Probably because the translators think that Jesus didn0t die really so he gave life to his own dead body, which as said before is ridiculous.

Translating ἐξουσία as "power" instead of "authority" as would be correct doesn't help either.

Read John chapter 1 so that your understanding may increase.

 

[ElieG12]

Read John chapter 1 so that your understanding may increase.

Maybe you should read the whole Scriptures more often to get a better understanding.

 

[Johann]

Maybe you should read the whole Scriptures more often to get a better understanding.

I think brother David is grounded in Scriptures-the problem is, when there is a disagreement-all hell is breaking loose, that's when it become too personal.
Are you a Greek scholar?
Johann.

 

[David in NJ]

Maybe you should read the whole Scriptures more often to get a better understanding.

40 years and counting of reading the the Whole of Scripture

Now go back to John ch1 and open your eyes because your post made an error by applying human logic.

 

[ElieG12]

There is a translation issue with the Greek text here in John 10:17,18.

The Greek verb λαμβάνω that is translated in this expression "I may TAKE it AGAIN" means also RECEIVE.

It is not logical to translate it "to take again", since a dead person can't do anything for his dead body. If there was a non-dead Jesus alive that resurrected a dead Jesus, then there would be two jesuses, which is nonsensical.

That is why other translations say more or less in this way:

John 10:17 This is why the Father loves me, because I surrender my life, so that I may receive it again. 18 No man takes it away from me, but I surrender it of my own initiative. I have authority to surrender it, and I have authority to receive it again. This commandment I received from my Father.

Note that the same verb is translate as "to receive" in the last part of the verse 18 when Jesus says "I received this commandment from my Father". That "received" is the same word that is translated "to take". Why? Probably because the translators think that Jesus didn0t die really so he gave life to his own dead body, which as said before is ridiculous.

Translating ἐξουσία as "power" instead of "authority" as would be correct doesn't help either.

Friend Johann, did you get the point?

This translation problem greatly changes the interpretation of the passage. It is very important to correctly understand what Jesus said, so as not to invent ideas that are not in the Bible.

It is not the same to say "I have permission to receive my life back, even if I give it up myself", than to say "I am going to let others to take my life because I have the power to give myself life again even if they kill me".

PS: I don't need cheerleaders. No real Christian should, since a real Christian knows this world, false religious included, will hate them (John 15:17-21).

 

[Johann]

Friend Johann, did you get the point?

PS: I don't need cheerleaders. No real Christian should, since a real Christian knows this world, false religious included, will hate them.

I get your point-and admire your searching the Greek text and words-but-

"I lay down My life so that I may take it again" This implies the resurrection. Usually in the NT it is the Father who raises the Son (cf. John 18b) to show His acceptance of His sacrifice. But here the power of Jesus Himself in the resurrection is asserted.

This phrase is an excellent opportunity to show that the NT often attributes the works of redemption to all three persons of the Godhead.

God the Father raised Jesus (cf. Acts 2:24; 3:15; 4:10; 5:30; 10:40; 13:30,33,34,37; 17:31; Rom. 6:4,9; 10:9; 1 Cor. 6:14; 2 Cor. 4:14; Gal. 1:1;Eph. 1:20; Col. 2:12; 1 Thess. 1:10)
God the Son raised Himself (cf. John 2:19-22; 10:17-18)

Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
ἐγερῶ
Transliteration: egerō
Morphology: V-FIA-1S
Verb - Future Indicative Active - 1st Person Singular
Strong's no.: G1453 (ἐγείρω)
Meaning: (a) to wake, arouse, (b) to raise up. See the First Person Singular?

Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.


απεκριθη ο ιησους και ειπεν αυτοις λυσατε τον ναον τουτον και εν τρισιν ημεραις εγερω αυτον

Joh 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

Joh 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
Joh 2:22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

God the Spirit raised Jesus (cf. Rom. 8:11)

Do you get my point? Do you agree, not with me, but the Scriptures?
Johann.

 

[ElieG12]

Thank you for sharing the way you understand this issue. I don't agree, since I don't believe there are two Jesuses in heaven: one that died and the other one who resurrected him. There is one Jesus, and he is the one who said "I became dead, but look! I am living" in Rev. 1:18.

Rev. 2:8 “And to the angel of the congregation in Smyrʹna write: These are the things that he says, ‘the First and the Last,’ who became dead and came to life again ...

In the Scriptures being dead is the opposite to being alive. That is basic, but there are many believers who have lost their senses (1 Cor. 4:1-6).

Tell me: if he was alive as to give life back to the dead body, why would that step be necessary, if he could have appeared alive to his disciples without giving life to that dead body?

 

[Enoch111]

Tell me: if he was alive as to give life back to the dead body, why would that step be necessary, if he could have appeared alive to his disciples without giving life to that dead body?

This sounds like total gobbledegook. So let's keep it really simply. Christ did indeed die. His soul and spirit were separated from His body for three days and three nights. That was to be the sign of the prophet Jonah. But after that Christ was resurrected, meaning that His dead body in the tomb literally rose up and was in fact a living body. He walked out of that tomb and then went to Heaven. That was a glorious transformed body, one without limitations, and one which could travel from earth to Heaven and back.

This was a stupendous miracle in which the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit were all involved with the resurrection of Christ. But Christ -- BY HIMSELF -- had the power to raise the dead, and the most outstanding miracle was the raising of Lazarus. But He also raised the daughter of Jairus, and the son of the widow of Nain. These are only the recorded incidents. Many may not even have been recorded.

All these people had literally died, and all of them were really and truly alive after Christ raised them from the dead. Jesus said "I am the RESURRECTION and the LIFE". That should settle all arguments. But once again we have a whole bunch of naysayers here who stubbornly refuse to believe that Jesus -- the Creator of the universe -- is God. He said He had the power to lay down His life, and He also had the power to raise Himself from the dead. The Bible says "Is anything too hard for the Lord?"

 

[David in NJ]

This sounds like total gobbledegook. So let's keep it really simply. Christ did indeed die. His soul and spirit were separated from His body for three days and three nights. That was to be the sign of the prophet Jonah. But after that Christ was resurrected, meaning that His dead body in the tomb literally rose up and was in fact a living body. He walked out of that tomb and then went to Heaven. That was a glorious transformed body, one without limitations, and one which could travel from earth to Heaven and back.

This was a stupendous miracle in which the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit were all involved with the resurrection of Christ. But Christ -- BY HIMSELF -- had the power to raise the dead, and the most outstanding miracle was the raising of Lazarus. But He also raised the daughter of Jairus, and the son of the widow of Nain. These are only the recorded incidents. Many may not even have been recorded.

All these people had literally died, and all of them were really and truly alive after Christ raised them from the dead. Jesus said "I am the RESURRECTION and the LIFE". That should settle all arguments. But once again we have a whole bunch of naysayers here who stubbornly refuse to believe that Jesus -- the Creator of the universe -- is God. He said He had the power to lay down His life, and He also had the power to raise Himself from the dead. The Bible says "Is anything too hard for the Lord?"

Now that was 'fillet mignon' - thank you

 

[ewq1938]

This is the reason why I don't want to dialogue with people such as you-always twisting and inserting what I have never said-

Don't dialogue with yourself then because everything you said applies to yourself.

The Bible indicates that all three Persons of the Trinity were involved in Jesus’ resurrection.

No, it credits the Father as raising his Son.

Galatians 1:1 says that the Father raised Jesus from the dead. First Peter 3:18 says that the Spirit raised Jesus from the dead (see also Romans 1:4, and note that Romans 8:11 clearly says that God will resurrect believers “through His Spirit”).

That's still the Father doing it through his Spirit just as he used the HS to make Mary pregnant but He is still credited as the Father.

And in John 2:19 Jesus predicts that He will raise Himself from the dead (see also John 10:18). So, when we answer the question of who resurrected Jesus, we can say God did. And by that we can mean it was the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

I disagree. Scripture only credits the Father and says he used the Spirit to do so which is normal for the Father to do, especially when the action is on the Earth.

Correct: The Father raised the Son from the dead.
Incorrect: The Son raised himself from the dead.

 

[ewq1938]

Note that the same verb is translate as "to receive" in the last part of the verse 18 when Jesus says "I received this commandment from my Father". That "received" is the same word that is translated "to take".

Agreed. And, to add to this:

Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I TAKEN of my Father.

Does that make much sense? No. lambanō appears twice in this verse and "taken" is not a good translation choice. "received" is much better.

Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to RECEIVE it again. This commandment have I RECEIVED of my Father.



Matthew Henry:

Therefore doth my Father love me, that is, me, and all that by faith become one with me; me, and the mystical body, because I lay down my life.
[b.] That his laying down his life was in order to his resuming it: I lay down my life, that I may receive it again. First, This was the effect of his Father's love, and the first step of his exaltation, the fruit of that love. Because he was God's holy one, he must not see corruption, Psa_16:10.



This also is in perfect harmony with another scripture:

Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.


His soul was not left in hell because the Father raised him back to life! This makes less sense if Jesus was the one who made sure he soul wasn't left in hell.