A serious questions for the Jehovah's Witnesses on these threads.
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Well seeing as you just added to the bible. All the bible says is touch not the unclean thing.LOL...then why don't you choose your own days to honor those you love? Why celebrate with "the world" of which satan is its ruler? (1 John 5:19)
When the devil told Jesus that world rulership had been "delivered to him and he could give it to whomever he wished" (Luke 4:5-8) what do you suppose that meant as far as him deceiving the world that he controls and influences? Has he told you that borrowing pagan customs and false religious occasions is somehow OK with God? Scripture tells you otherwise...(2 Cor 6:14-18)....yet you still want to justify it. SMH.
What part of "don't touch" spiritually "unclean" beliefs and practices, do you not understand?
2 Corinthians 6:17
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
so are you saying a heart shaped box of chocolates and flowers are ok 364 days of the year and then become sinful on valentines day?
Honoring a person is okay 364 days a year but honoring them on the anniversary of their birth is sinful?
The world drives cars (matter of facxt unbelievers invented them and planes and cruise ships). The World works and buys homes and clothes at sotres. Are all these sinful because the world does them also?
Well if I find out all roses and chocolates and restaurants have been dedicated to false gods on Valentines day, I won't do any of htem on that day!
But other wise God has instructed us how to live with this in this manner:
1 Corinthians 8
King James Version
8 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him.
4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
1 Corinthians 10:24-28
King James Version
24 Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth.25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
26 For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.
27 If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.
28 But if any man say unto you, this is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:
Idols are nothing and we are free to partake or not partake of food sacrificed to idols! But to refrain if we are in the company of one like you who still believes the idol has power.
But we are required to reach out to them with the true gospel.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
This is one of my favorite trinitarian rationalizations. When my buttered bread falls to the floor, I am not actually claiming it is feces.
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Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
You exposed the double talk, the JW are involved in. They are saying, it is sinful to take part in birthday memorial, based on their belief that it is self-serving and pagan.
On other days of the year thinking of your mother and honoring her with gifts is not self-serving/sinful for the mother.
So mothers cannot honor their children's birth but children can honor their mother for giving them life.
No gifts for birthdays
Permitted gifts for Mothers day.
Both are honoring, celebrating, a person.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
RR144
Well-Known Member
Considering that in our nearly 150 years of existence, we still believe the same, because we studied the scriptures and proved what we were taught. There are of course some things in regard to prophecy that we have had to tweak, but it's pretty much the same for over 100 years. So, we don't follow a man, like the Bereans of old did, we "received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so." (Acts 17:11)
And yet, all JW's MUST accept what is taught to them by the Governing Body. I won't bore you with all the quotes from your publications where the GB has stated they speak for God, and disagreeing with them is disagreeing with God. And you know as well as I do, that to disagree with the JW's is a disfellowshipping offense. So you really don't have a choice, you must obey these "very much flawed humans."
And as I've stated, we use everything at our disposal to reach people with the Good News, (TV, Radio, billboards, printed page. social media, internet). But the Churches job is not to convert the world, that is what the Kingdom is for. The preaching work is for a specific reason. Do you know what that reason is?
Guess what Jane? Here we are, dialoguing. So the door-to-door ministry is not the only way to reach people. I've lived in Indiana 7 years now, I've never had a JW knock on my door. In fact, I've never seen or met a JW in the seven years I've lived here. Just remember Jane, we can knock on all the doors in the world, we can shout from the rooftops and stand on corners, but remember, it is God who does the calling. And if someone doesn't respond, then they haven't been called. There are countless people out there who believe in Jesus, countless who have been tortured and have died for their faith. Countless who have a beautiful Christlike character, character that put me to shame, and a character I'm still working on building, but they haven't been called, or maybe they have, who am I to say? I can tell you this much ... when the smoke of Armageddon clears, there will stand countless scratching their heads wondering ... "but I thought..." "How is he ....?" "Wait-a-minute, you mean ...?"
The end doesn't come when you knock on that last door. It comes when the last feet members of the Body of Christ is beyond the veil, that is the Holy of Holies. And then the fun begins. And wherever my Heavenly Father deems fit to put me ... is more than I deserve.
Well, Bible Students don't have a Great Crowd to do our bidding. I guess, if we closed the door to heaven and began gathering a second class of Christians who in essence have no standing with God, because Jesus isn't their mediator, nor do they have a covenant relationship with. , So again I ask, what is the will of the Father Jane?
The same one the JW's tossed to the side all those years ago. You know the Studies in the Scriptures were subtitled "Keys to the Scriptures". But in 1927, the Society ceased publishing them. J.F. Rutherford, your true founder then began writing, book after book, booklets and articles, and each book he wrote contradicted the previous book he wrote all under the guise of NEW LIGHT, and 100 years later that light is stilling changing like a disco ball glistening in a dark room.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
And I will leave that there as the perfect example of what justification looks like.....you don’t have to answer to me.....just remember that.
It’s our choice as to what we actively, or even tacitly participate in, in this life. Those decisions will affect our whole future. “Faithful in what is least” will ensure that we are “faithful also in much”. (Luke 16:10)
When was the last time a Bible Student called on me to bring me the good news of the Kingdom....?
NEVER ... They just can't. They haven't been sent out.
Rom. 10:14 However, how will they call on him if they have not put faith in him? How, in turn, will they put faith in him about whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? 15 How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent out? Just as it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who declare good news of good things!”
Actually, beware of them: among them are many disfellowshipped who do not wish to follow the instructions of the Governing Body. They are only there because they all want to be their own governing self ... They obviously don't know why God's servants are called "sheep" in the Scriptures.
The goats are already taking their places for the great tribulation.
Matt. 25:32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.
RR144
Well-Known Member
Well, I haven't been contacted in the seven years I've lived here, despite a Kingdom Hall a few miles away. I have been contacted by the Seventh-Day Adventist and Mormons.
Good News eh? "Join us or die at Armageddon!" No thank you.
But I thought you don't follow men?
RR144
Well-Known Member
We live in an era in which religious untruth abounds. As foretold by the apostle Paul under divine inspiration, many people in these “last days” have a form of godly devotion but prove false to its power. Some resist the truth, being “completely corrupted in mind.” Furthermore, “wicked men and impostors . . . advance from bad to worse, misleading and being misled.” Though such people are always learning, they never come to “an accurate knowledge of truth.” https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2003564
1 Tim. 3:1 But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. (...) 5 having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power; and from these turn away. (...) 7 always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth. 8 Now in the way that Janʹnes and Jamʹbres opposed Moses, so these also go on opposing the truth. Such men are completely corrupted in mind, disapproved as regards the faith. (...) 13 But wicked men and impostors will advance from bad to worse, misleading and being misled.
1 Tim. 3:1 But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. (...) 5 having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power; and from these turn away. (...) 7 always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth. 8 Now in the way that Janʹnes and Jamʹbres opposed Moses, so these also go on opposing the truth. Such men are completely corrupted in mind, disapproved as regards the faith. (...) 13 But wicked men and impostors will advance from bad to worse, misleading and being misled.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Strangely, this has been my experience too. Like the Bereans of old, we too check the scriptures carefully 'to find out whether the things we are taught were so.'
It’s just a matter of where we put our faith...and in whom. The devil is a great mimic.....as you know, he can masquerade as “an angel of light”......appearing to be what he is not. (2 Cor 4:4)
The governing body, to us, are “the faithful and discreet slave”, (Matt 24:45) whom Jesus appointed to “feed” his household of fellow slaves, “their food at the proper time”.
This arrangement did not allow for the slaves being fed by this body to refuse certain food as unpalatable. Nor was it a buffet where you could serve yourself only what you liked. And it didn’t mean that they dished up the same tired menu day after day to be regurgitated and swallowed without ever being digested. All the food dispensed was “food at the proper time”...... IOW, we were told what we needed to know, when we needed to know it....”at the proper time”. This in itself does not allow for a stagnation in our beliefs, or something that the light of truth cannot further illuminate as the need arises.
Clarifications are ongoing as this indicates. No ongoing or progressive enlightenment leads to stagnation.
Not everyone has a TV, radio or the internet and not everyone can read....that leaves a good portion of the world without a witness.
Jehovah’s Witnesses will traverse all terrains, in all parts of the world to reach isolated people with the message of the Kingdom. Videos are a major teaching tool now rather than the written word. Electronic devices now substitute in large measure as teaching tools instead of cumbersome and weighty books. Images convey so much more than words do.
The preaching work has a two fold purpose, as it did in Noah’s day. Peter calls Noah a “preacher of righteousness” (2 Pet 2:5) in a world where violence and immorality were the norm. If God already knew that only Noah and his family would eventually board the ark and be saved, what was the purpose of Noah’s preaching?
Not a soul could claim that they didn’t know what God was going to do, because no one told them.
“Just like the days of Noah”, Jesus said the time of his return would be. (Matt 24:37-39) How was that? “They took no notice until the flood came and swept them all away”, so it will be when the time of Christ’s judgment comes.
Noah’s warning was ignored and ridiculed and vilified......but we can only wonder what went through the minds of those who had an opportunity to save themselves.....and didn’t.
Today people have the same choice.....to accept the warning and act on it, or to ignore it and perish.....
Romans 10:13-15
“For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” [Joel 2:32] 14 However, how will they call on him if they have not put faith in him? How, in turn, will they put faith in him about whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? 15 How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent out? Just as it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who declare good news of good things!”
Unless Jesus sent out preachers, who called on people, “door to door”, (the most effective method when you can’t afford to miss anyone) how would they hear the message? (Acts 20:20; Matt 10:11-14)
To whom did Jesus send his disciple out to preach? Wasn’t it those who already worshipped Jehovah? Yet, they were not worshipping him in truth. Jesus was there to set things straight so that those with the right heart would respond and act on what they heard. Those who were already comfortable with what they had been taught from the lying, hypocritical Pharisees, rejected Jesus as Messiah, and lost out on places in the Kingdom.
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Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
When the smoke of Armageddon clears, those who come out will be those who have obeyed the son in all things. By our choices we determine our own destiny.....Jehovah will not correct us or force the truth on us....acceptance has to come from our own hearts. He will then do the rest. (John 6:44, 65)
Ezekiel 3:17-19 is sobering....this is another facet of our responsibility as disciples of the Master.
Yes, we believe this too....’unless the days of the great tribulation were cut short, no flesh would be saved’ but the great crowd will come out of that tribulation as survivors (Rev 7:13-14) and the last of the elect will be there with Jesus as the world system under satan is finally destroyed, so that no trace will be left of the wickedness that has prevailed for so long under his influence. (1 John 5:19)
That is interesting....you haven’t identified the great crowd, which is something that happened when the “proper time” came to recognize who they were. Many were withholding from baptism because they did not have the conviction or calling to heaven, (Heb 3:1) so it was announced that their identity had been established in scripture....they are the support system for the elect as these ones leave the earthly scene to take up their heavenly assignments. Very few of Jehovah’s Witnesses are anointed ones now, as we would expect this close to the end. The majority are already in heaven ready to take over world rulership with their King leading the charge. (Daniel 2:44)
If the light on the pathway never got brighter as the day dawned, then we can only imagine some poking around in a darkness that has never lifted. (Prov 4:18)
We continue to be enlightened as the inevitable day approaches, not having been left behind with a dim candle and a truth that never allows new light to reveal new aspects of ongoing prophesy.
Russell was an enlightened man and his findings in company with other like-minded individuals in those early days were remarkable in laying a foundation for what was to come.....but he was never alone.....there has always been “a body” of Christ’s anointed. In the beginning all were of that class, but as time progressed and the identity of the “great crowd” was made known, it is very apparent that when the “sheep and the goats” are separated at the judgment, those who supported Christ’s “brothers” (his spirit anointed “joint heirs”) will be rewarded for their ongoing assistance.
“When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right: ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world. 35 For I became hungry and you gave me something to eat; I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger and you received me hospitably; 36 naked and you clothed me. I fell sick and you looked after me. I was in prison and you visited me.’ 37 Then the righteous ones will answer him with the words: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and receive you hospitably, or naked and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 In reply the King will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’” (Matt 25:31-40)
There are two groups mentioned there.... Christ’s “brothers” and those who render assistance to them.
How have you not discerned the two groups? No new light....which means that you all got stuck in the past and have never progressed. I find that rather sad actually, because “faith follows the thing heard”...it comes from what we are led to believe.....so it’s not “what” we believe at the end of the day....but “who” we believe......isn’t it?
It's been a while I asked you if you were a baptized JW before.
Until you don't answer that question, I wouldn't like to discuss anything with you, sure thing.
Keiw
Well-Known Member
Your choice, but don't forget everlasting life is on the line for all. Satan has had 99% mislead ever since the fall in Eden. The only time maybe not was when Israel stood strong, but he got them to fall over and over. Even Solomon fell. He is the god of this system of things. Alls he has to do by transforming into an angel of light( him and his teachers) 2Cor 11:12-15) is get one to partake off the table of demons.1 Cor 10:21--and they will lose. Because God says-one CANNOT partake off his table if they partake off of that one. Yet billions are being mislead into trying both tables--Gods table counts 0 for them.
RR144
Well-Known Member
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