Leaving Room for Faith - why we don't know EVERYTHING

[St. SteVen]

At one time I was bothered by the fact that we don't really have ALL the answers.
There was always a loose end somewhere.

I chased the apologetics in every direction, but always came up short somewhere.
And frankly, I don't remember the specifics, only the moment of my release from the tyranny I had inflicted myself with.

I finally realized that I needed to leave some room for faith.
To live with some mystery. To admit that I didn't have ALL the answers.

This follows-up on my previous topic:

Theistic Agnosticism - The honesty to admit we don't know everything

This term came up this morning in a discussion over coffee. I thought it worth discussing further. Being raised in the church, I was held in a bubble of "we have all the answers." Now that I am an adult, I realize the reason for that. We DIDN'T have all the questions. I know, I know... (who...

www.christianityboard.com

Which was a follow-up to yet another topic.

Christianity as a Closed System

This is an extension of a previous topic. https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/theistic-agnosticism-the-honesty-to-admit-we-dont-know-everything.53916/ As I have said often, "I was raised Protestant evangelical." --- A closed system. Which had an odd antithetical twist. You can't DO...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[amadeus]

At one time I was bothered by the fact that we don't really have ALL the answers.
There was always a loose end somewhere.

I chased the apologetics in every direction, but always came up short somewhere.
And frankly, I don't remember the specifics, only the moment of my release from the tyranny I had inflicted myself with.

I finally realized that I needed to leave some room for faith.
To live with some mystery. To admit that I didn't have ALL the answers.

This follows-up on my previous topic:

Theistic Agnosticism - The honesty to admit we don't know everything

This term came up this morning in a discussion over coffee. I thought it worth discussing further. Being raised in the church, I was held in a bubble of "we have all the answers." Now that I am an adult, I realize the reason for that. We DIDN'T have all the questions. I know, I know... (who...

www.christianityboard.com

I remember my own early work to obtain what Enoch did from God. Then after a 10-year period in darkness, God opened my eyes to my continual short coming. God knows it all, but me and others... what do we know of what we have believed that we have known?

Ro 1:17

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

And faith...?

Heb 11:1

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen

Give God the glory!

 

[Behold]

At one time I was bothered by the fact that we don't really have ALL the answers.

Any specific questions?

 

[St. SteVen]

Any specific questions?

From the OP:

And frankly, I don't remember the specifics, only the moment of my release from the tyranny I had inflicted myself with.

Are you claiming to have ALL the answers?

 

[MatthewG]

For myself i just wanna know what is truth and what is not truth… but not for myself alone but also let other people know the reality of the scope between our flesh and the spirit of God.

Maybe its selfish to search for truth?

But what else is there time for other than learning and growing in the knowledge of God and finding truth that is able to set you free from bondage from any religious group, that may or not really properlly feed their flock that comes to them.

That is my issues i guess; maybe its selfish to some…

There was 10 popular churches a friend of mine went to; and only 1 church was actually teaching from the word of God.

That is where you can learn, and atlest get some truth from going verse by verse and teaching from the aspect of what your readinf and the times of the time your reading about.

I dont know all the answers but a generally had idea of what is going on is a must.

 

[St. SteVen]

Any specific questions?

Here's one. (for you)

Jesus tells us to love our enemies. Which he describes as godly behavior. (be perfect)
Does God operate at a lower standard than he holds us to?
Incinerating your enemies would not be love, correct?
Unless God is worse than a pagan, or a tax collector. (traitor)

Matthew 5:43-48 NIV
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

 

[Behold]

From the OP:

Are you claiming to have ALL the answers?

Only God has all the answers as...>"Jesus in Whom is hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge".

Colossians 2:3

However, "Christ in you, the hope of Glory" shows us that Christ and all the answers and knowledge are in all the born again.
He has all the answers, and He's inside the born again.

How does He give all this info and insight and enlightenment as our '"spiritual understanding".

Through the Bible, as "revelation knowledge" given by the Holy Spirit

And through a skilled in the word, teacher, as God gives "teachers = """ For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:""""

Ephesians 4:12


So, did the OP have any specific questions that have no answers yet that the OP is satisfied with?
That is my question.

 

[MatthewG]

@St. SteVen luke 6 also is a place to find the same passage only i do like the wording a bit more, even though its representively the same thing.

 

[Behold]

Here's one. (for you)

Jesus tells us to love our enemies. Which he describes as godly behavior. (be perfect)
Does God operate at a lower standard than he holds us to?
Incinerating your enemies would not be love, correct?
Unless God is worse than a pagan, or a tax collector. (traitor)

The wrong understanding of "Hell" is that God is forcing you to go., or that He's responsible for you ending up there.

But on the Contrary, Hell, just like Heaven, is a Eternal Destination.

A person is given.....the OFFER of the Blood and Death and Cross of Christ as THE Gift of Salvation, that Cost God His Son's Life, so that all of us can CHOOSE not to go to Hell, as that is how you have to see it, regarding your POV.

Hell was not made for people, for humans.
Hell, was created "for the devil and his angels"....before ADAM fell., before Adam existed.
SATAN was cast out of heaven, down to this earth, before Adam was created.
Remember? So, God had created Hell for the Devil, before Adam was on Earth.
And once Adam fell, (sinned) = then Adam became a spiritual SON of the DEVIL., and that "sonship" is on all of us. = "Adamic nature"
"choose this day whom you will serve"... as the one you serve is your God......and Satan became the Spiritual Father of Fallen Adam, as he became the "nature of the Devil", and that is the SIN Nature.
That's is the devil's nature....

So, to be born again.......the reason you have to be born again, is because that is how you CHANGE SPIRITUAL FATHERS.....
See that?

Look at this verse.....>"Jesus said......You are of YOUR FATHER... the DEVIL, and the LUSTS of your FATHER, you will do".

Who is that?
That is everyone........its all of us, until we are BORN AGAIN.

So, if we remain a """spiritual son of the devil"" then we end up with our Father the devil, after we die.....and that is HELL that was created for the DEVIL and His Angels.
See it?
So, its natural, its correct, that The Devil's sons, (unbelievers) die and go to their Father's HOME.
And the BORN AGAIN, who now have a NEW FATHER.....who is in HEAVEN........... The born go there, as that is to go to OUR FATHER.

So that is why a person goes to Heaven or to Hell.

You go to your SPIRITUAL Father after you die., and both have a place , St Steven.

 

[St. SteVen]

For myself i just wanna know what is truth and what is not truth… but not for myself alone but also let other people know the reality of the scope between our flesh and the spirit of God.

A search for truth is not a bad thing from my perspective.
How we communicate that to others can be a problem.
Can lead to a clash of claimed 'truth".

Maybe its selfish to search for truth?

No, not the search... how open are you to challenging ideas?

But what else is there time for other than learning and growing in the knowledge of God and finding truth that is able to set you free from bondage from any religious group, that may or not really properlly feed their flock that comes to them.

How are such things measured?
Is it not tribalism to judge another body of believers as not properly feeding their flock?
Are they wrong because they don't do it OUR way?

That is my issues i guess; maybe its selfish to some…

Depends...

There was 10 popular churches a friend of mine went to; and only 1 church was actually teaching from the word of God.

Seriously?
How was this determined?

That is where you can learn, and atlest get some truth from going verse by verse and teaching from the aspect of what your readinf and the times of the time your reading about.

I recommend verse by verse, actually. - LOL
Otherwise, who can you trust?

Best advice: Eat the meat and spit out the bones.
No one church has ALL the answers.
Like medicine, churches are specialists in different areas.

I dont know all the answers but a generally had idea of what is going on is a must.

I agree with that.

 

[St. SteVen]

The wrong understanding of "Hell" is that God is forcing you to go., or that He's responsible for you ending up there.

Nonsense.
No one chooses to go to hell. (as described by the church)
You have provided the "blame the victim" apologetic.

 

[St. SteVen]

... that is how you have to see it, regarding your POV.

That is NOT how I see it at all. And you didn't answer my question.

Jesus tells us to love our enemies. Which he describes as godly behavior. (be perfect)
Does God operate at a lower standard than he holds us to?

Matthew 5:43-48 NIV
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

 

[Behold]

Nonsense.
No one chooses to go to hell. (as described by the church)
You have provided the "blame the victim" apologetic.

You want to blame God.
Ive met a few like you.

John Calvin had that same issue, as His concept of God is that God is to be blamed .>"blame God".
Calvin hated God so much that He created a "salvation theology" that blames God for causing people to go to Hell.

That's "God hating Calvinism" the Religion.. = "blame God, shall be the whole of the doctrine".

Listen, You have free will. We all do.
You, we, all of us, have the free will choice to Believe in Jesus.., and if you do that, God births us as His son, and You go to God the Father, in Heaven, after you die.

If you are never born again, then you remain After your DEATH the same Spiritual Son of the Devil, and you go to your father, who is not in Heaven, as "Hell was created for the DEVIL and His Angels", and unbelievers have His Nature......the "sin nature"....so, they go to their Spiritual father.
= Hell.

Its really that simple.
Its not a complex understanding, unless you are a "God blamer" type of mentality.

Now i'll post my teaching again, for the readers so that they can get the teaching on why you must be born again.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A person is given.....the OFFER of the Blood and Death and Cross of Christ as THE Gift of Salvation, that Cost God His Son's Life, so that all of us can CHOOSE not to go to Hell, as that is how you have to see it, regarding your POV.

Hell was not made for people, for humans.
Hell, was created "for the devil and his angels"....before ADAM fell., before Adam existed.
SATAN was cast out of heaven, down to this earth, before Adam was created.
Remember? So, God had created Hell for the Devil, before Adam was on Earth.
And once Adam fell, (sinned) = then Adam became a spiritual SON of the DEVIL., and that "sonship" is on all of us. = "Adamic nature"
"choose this day whom you will serve"... as the one you serve is your God......and Satan became the Spiritual Father of Fallen Adam, as he became the "nature of the Devil", and that is the SIN Nature.
That's is the devil's nature....

So, to be born again.......the reason you have to be born again, is because that is how you CHANGE SPIRITUAL FATHERS.....
See that?

Look at this verse.....>"Jesus said......You are of YOUR FATHER... the DEVIL, and the LUSTS of your FATHER, you will do".

Who is that?
That is everyone........its all of us, until we are BORN AGAIN.

So, if we remain a """spiritual son of the devil"" then we end up with our Father the devil, after we die.....and that is HELL that was created for the DEVIL and His Angels.
See it?
So, its natural, its correct, that The Devil's sons, (unbelievers) die and go to their Father's HOME.
And the BORN AGAIN, who now have a NEW FATHER.....who is in HEAVEN........... The born go there, as that is to go to OUR FATHER.

So that is why a person goes to Heaven or to Hell.

You go to your SPIRITUAL Father after you die., and both have a place , St Steven.

 

[St. SteVen]

So, did the OP have any specific questions that have no answers yet that the OP is satisfied with?
That is my question.

Do you have anything to CONTRIBUTE to the topic?
All is see is a claim that somehow you believe you have ALL the answers. ???

 

[St. SteVen]

You want to blame God.
Ive met a few like you.

Don't forget to shake the dust off your sandals on your way out. Thanks.

 

[St. SteVen]

Only God has all the answers as...

Define "faith".

John 20:29 NIV
Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed;
blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

 

[Behold]

Do you have anything to CONTRIBUTE to the topic?
All is see is a claim that somehow you believe you have ALL the answers. ???

You asked me to answer your accusation against God.

You said this...

"""""Incinerating your enemies would not be love, correct?""""

So, that is you judging God for Hell, as you are implying that people going to Hell, proves that God is not really "love"

That's a really blasphemous idea, you posted, so, i wanted to give you a sound and solid and accurate and true teaching on the why, when, and how of Hell, so that you can have one.
And also, i wanted to protect the readers from such an idea that """""God is not love, because Hell is waiting for Christ rejectors" tho you didnt actually explain WHO goes to Hell and why.

So, i did all that, and its good, as now the readers who find the accusations, can find the ANSWER, on the Same THREAD.

 

[Randy Kluth]

At one time I was bothered by the fact that we don't really have ALL the answers.
There was always a loose end somewhere.

I chased the apologetics in every direction, but always came up short somewhere.
And frankly, I don't remember the specifics, only the moment of my release from the tyranny I had inflicted myself with.

I finally realized that I needed to leave some room for faith.
To live with some mystery. To admit that I didn't have ALL the answers.

This follows-up on my previous topic:

Theistic Agnosticism - The honesty to admit we don't know everything

This term came up this morning in a discussion over coffee. I thought it worth discussing further. Being raised in the church, I was held in a bubble of "we have all the answers." Now that I am an adult, I realize the reason for that. We DIDN'T have all the questions. I know, I know... (who...

www.christianityboard.com

I'd like to share an event on this subject, brother, because I find it both interesting and relevant to your topic. A couple of years ago I had a dream, almost as if not a dream, in which the Lord communicated to me that He could answer every question I had. I woke up with that still on my mind, and I started asking questions, with the answers seemingly coming to me immediately.

Excitedly, I went and told my wife, asking her to ask me anything. I had been asking the most difficult questions in my life, and the answers seemed to race towards me. This lingered for some time until I was back where I was before, ignorant of so many things.

What was the lesson in this experience? I speculated that it was encouragement for me to keep asking questions, because the answers were there. But God normally wants to take us through a process in learning, with the process being just as important as getting the answers.

But I'm no longer intimidated by the fact Christians have disagreed on things throughout the centuries. For those willing to persevere, the answers are there. Certainly, not all will agree. But you can indeed get satisfactory answers.

 

[St. SteVen]

You asked me to answer your accusation against God.

https://soundcloud.com/user-426611522%2Flifes-pretty-good-without-you

 

[Behold]

Define "faith".

John 20:29 NIV
Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed;
blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Christian Trust, in the context of Christianity is to Trust in the Truth, who is the Unseen Christ, as their Savior.

To do this is "Faith in Christ".

The literal NT explanation is that "faith is the substance of things HOPED for.....the evidence of thing Not seen", or (unseen).

Believing in the Unseen, is to Trust in the Heart what is not seen by the eyes.
That's Christian : Faith.

"blessed are all those who have not SEEN ME", and "believe".......so that is BLIND TRUST, or to believe in what you can't see, that is the opposite of Logic or Natural Law.

See, Christianity is not Logical....its ALL SPIRITUAL Truth.

We think of Truth as , "isnt a lie" or the opposite of a Lie.
But Jesus said....

"I am THE TRUTH"......not some, or most....but LIVING Truth...>"THE".

The """Spiritual realm""" .....It can be understood as "cosmic design" but, even that is not really "scientific" in the traditional sense.

Christianity is TRUST based, not Logic based... Its ALL Spiritual, which is not the "natural realm". understanding.