St. Joseph
Member
The Spirit calls and convicts. Paul said Their conscience accusing or excusing.
Does God love burning people in hell?
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St. SteVen
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Yes, I agree. I'm familiar with that scripture.
What is their basis of salvation, since they are "without the law"?
St. Joseph
Member
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
It could equally be understood as, I am saying to you today... Your translation can be equally applied to Jesus'words, as they may be to their meeting together in paradise, for the comma want invented until a very long time after the conversation was first recorded, and was inserted according to the preconceived ideas of the translators.
What must guide our understanding is the context and the plain reading of the rest of scripture. First, the context. Jesus did not ascend into paradise that day. Second, there is no other event or experience in scripture that would harmonize with the idea that someone could go to heaven spiritually, outside of his body. The spirit of man as a separate living conscious entity with the ability to communicate, think, and act independent of the body is an idea of occult paganism and does not belong in Christian doctrine. With the concept of the immortality of the soul, paganism would collapse. And all associations with the so called communicating with the dead, praying to and/or for the dead, is a practice and one of the abominations of the harlot, Babylon, a counterfeit Christian apostate church that along with the rest of her fermented wine, she has made all nations to drink.
I don't blame you. I wouldn't go down those paths either. What I will say to you is this... If God is Spirit, and God only is immortal, then He is the only immortal Spirit. Not you. Not me. Not anyone else. Just God. If we want to live forever, we must do what everyone else must do with but 3 scriptural exceptions... We must await the resurrection. And before the resurrection, we must needs to through the judgement, which takes place prior to the second coming.
PS. These beliefs are not the sole property of JWs. They have been around since the time of Moses who first wrote...
KJV Deuteronomy 18:9-12
9 When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.
10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
And in the NT, John wrote...
KJV Revelation 16:13-14
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
KJV 1 Timothy 4:1
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.
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Behold
Well-Known Member
You "disagree" that a person can die unforgiven their sin because they chose not to receive Christ's sacrifice for their sin, and died in unbelief, = unforgiven, = unpardoned.. .. like this..
John 3:36
You need to think about that a bit more.
Behold
Well-Known Member
You ask them.
Tney'll tell you...>"yes, i was water baptized and confirmed".
So, dont "respect" that, as that is a cult teaching that is "baptismal regeneration" that came from JEROME who mistranslated much of the Latin Text that became the "Douhay Rheims" "cult of mary" bible that teaches this LIE>
"Born again BY WATER"........ John 3
See that?
"Born again.........BY..........Water"
This is a "doctrine of Devils"......... as this "CATHOLIC " teaching is substituting WATER for the HOLY SPIRIT.
As its God's HOLY SPIRIT WHO give the NEW Birth, ......NOT. "born again BY water".
Water is water, and nothing more, yet the "cult of mary" teaches that WATER... '"washes away your sin".
And that DENIES that the Blood of Jesus is the redemption of sin.
Behold
Well-Known Member
The forgiveness of ALL sin, is based on the Sacrifice of Christ on the Cross DYING for YOUR Sin.
Unless you think you can do it for yourself.
Maybe that is what you think. ?
To receive this forgiveness that is Jesus dying on the Cross for your sin, you have to BELIEVE.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
PinSeeker said:
Ah, you're turning the verse into something other than it is. Jesus said to him, "Truly, I say to you, today..." (not "someday") "...you will be with me in paradise." The Greek word we translate 'today,' there, Brakelite, is σήμερον (sēmeron), and is properly understood as ~ paraphrasing ~ "this event will happen this very day."
Ah, you're turning the verse into something other than it is. Jesus said to him, "Truly, I say to you, today..." (not "someday") "...you will be with me in paradise." The Greek word we translate 'today,' there, Brakelite, is σήμερον (sēmeron), and is properly understood as ~ paraphrasing ~ "this event will happen this very day."
That's a great point, Thanks.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Each in turn.
All will be made alive. But each in turn.
That is how it is done, in my view.
No one can come to God until his Spirit draws them.
Some in this life, the rest in the afterlife.
1 Corinthians 15:22-24 NIV
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father
after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
It's not a free gift if you to give anything for it.
Does it cost anything to "believe"? (yup)
Not free then.
Acknowledge is probably enough.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Behold
Well-Known Member
Its a free Gift from God, but its conditional to receive it.
"Faith is counted as Rightousness"
"all that believe will be saved".
Heretics teach that "faith" is a work, but, Heretics are to be ignored.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Behold
Well-Known Member
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Say what?
Let's slow that down so we can understand what you are saying.
Its a free Gift from God,
but its conditional to receive it.
Like this then?
Man #1: I have a free gift for you.
Man #2: No thanks.
Man #1: I said it was free.
Man #2: Are there strings attached?
Man #1: Well, of course.
Man #2: It's not really free then.
Man #1: You better take it, or else!
Man #2: Or else what?
Man #1: You'll be incinerated!
Man #2: What kind of free gift is that?
Indeed.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Behold
Well-Known Member
Being in the middle of the road, ... its impossible not to get run over.
Behold
Well-Known Member
"say what' this..
Jesus died on the Cross , by laying His own life down.
He said....>"no person takes my life....i give it freely". = on the Cross.
So that is the GIFT of Salvation.
Its His DEATH for your sin.
If you want that GIFT , then you have to do this..
"Jesus said....>"all that BELIEVE in me, i give unto you Eternal Life, and you shall never go to Hell (perish).
Jesus said, i am THE WAY to the Father, and no person comes to the Father, except by me"..
So, that is the condition to receive the GIFT of the Cross of Christ.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Behold
Well-Known Member
But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless nonsense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated.
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