Is Reincarnation baloney?

[QuantumBit]

Begs the question.
What does it mean to be dead?
Jesus made a very curious statement in this regard.

Luke 20:38 NIV
He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”

The 'Dead' are often those already condemned to the Second Death. 'Twice Dead' is another term.

The phrase 'surely die' is another one. It means to die twice, i.e., to experience the Second Death.

Most Christians do not understand that concept and will often use the phrase 'Spiritual Death', not knowing what it means.

When God said to the First Adam...

Genesis 2:17
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

...God was literally telling him that he would die twice. In fact, the original Hebrew says thou shalt 'Die Die'.

The story of Adam and Eve is a story of the very first reincarnation. The couple died on that very day. God had to recreate them.

The Church teaches Christians to change the words of Genesis 2:17 to say 'Spiritual Death'... whatever that means... in order to hide reincarnation from being understood in the passages.

Thus 'Alive' is the opposite of Twice Dead. It refers to those that will not experience the Second Death.

 

[QuantumBit]

I think the standard rebuttal is this verse below, which is also used against UR.

Hebrews 9:27 NIV
Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,

We covered that verse, but for review I will interpret...

All Hebrews 9:27 teaches is that once someone dies, they will then be judged for that Life. Nothing more can, or should, be read into it.

Christians once again are told to change the words around to make it sound like Humans only die one time. Obviously, they are teaching a huge contradiction since the Bible teaches of a Second Death. Die once and die twice is an obvious contradiction, yet as we can see in this thread, some people have zero problems with teaching major contradictions like that.

If everyone died, that would contradict with the Rapture, Elijah, Enoch, etc.

 

[QuantumBit]

Furthermore, the Lake of Fire was created for "the devil and his angels"

It was not created as some kind of cleansing fire which human souls repeatedly pass through upon reincarnation.

First of all, we are *ALL* Fallen Angels. We were the Morning Stars that sang together...

Job 38:7
"When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"

A 'Falling Star' is a Spirit that is coming to Earth to reincarnate...

Revelation 9:1
"And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit."

Second of all, Jesus himself taught we are all born from Gehenna, the Lake of Fire...

Matthew 23:15
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."

'Child of Hell' is literal. I believe what Jesus teaches. Most of you do not, and yet I am the bad guy. See the irony?

 

[friend of]

I was following your logic. You say that judgment comes once per life. You tell me how is it this tree is judged four times?

It wasn't. It was appraised I guess, but it was not judged finally. If the tree represents a human soul, then my position is that soul was not judged yet, as it was not uprooted or chopped down.

 

[friend of]

First of all, we are *ALL* Fallen Angels. We were the Morning Stars that sang together

Hmm. Nah. I'll pass. This is completely unbiblical.

 

[Mr E]

It wasn't. It was appraised I guess, but it was not judged finally. If the tree represents a human soul, then my position is that soul was not judged yet, as it was not uprooted or chopped down.

Study up on it. On ‘the tree of Life’ and what Jesus taught as our need to remain a part of it, and not be cut off from it.

I wish you well on your journey, but you don’t get to call scripture ‘unbiblical’ just because you don’t agree with it. Sorry friend.

 

[friend of]

Study up on it. On ‘the tree of Life’ and what Jesus taught as our need to remain a part of it, and not be cut off from it.

Nobody has taken part of the tree of life yet. Read the last few chapters or Revelation, if you haven't already. Access to the tree of life is a reward for those who are finally saved in new heavens new earth.

 

[friend of]

I wish you well on your journey, but you don’t get to call scripture ‘unbiblical’ just because you don’t agree with it. Sorry friend.

I think you're getting your wires crossed. I didn't explicitly state, to you, that anything you said was unbiblical. I was talking to @QuantumBit when I said that. And do you know why I said that? I'll tell you. I said that because he said, just now, that we, human beings, are the fallen angels.

Now, are we humans fallen angels? Because THAT is what I just called unbiblical.

 

[QuantumBit]

...you don’t get to call scripture ‘unbiblical’ just because you don’t agree with it.

Amen.

 

[QuantumBit]

Hmm. Nah. I'll pass. This is completely unbiblical.

Address the verse I posted for you please...

Matthew 23:15
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."

How do you interpret 'Child of Hell'?

Did Jesus lie?

 

[friend of]

Address the verse I posted for you please...

Matthew 23:15
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."

How do you interpret 'Child of Hell'?

Did Jesus lie?

Unsaved person = child of hell.

What Jesus said here is not rocket surgery.

 

[friend of]

Amen.

Good thing he was confused and I didn't actually do that.

 

[QuantumBit]

Anyone who is interested in more evidence proving that those thrown into the Lake of Fire pass through it to a new Earth Mother, as Jesus teaches, keep reading.

The word 'Tophet' is synonymous with the Lake of Fire. But where did the word Tophet come from? Why is that another name for the Lake of Fire?

Let us examine these verses…

Isaiah 30:33 (KJV)
“For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; he hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.”

Here is another translation…

Isaiah 30:33 (JPS Tanakh 1917)
“For a hearth is ordered of old; Yea, for the king it is prepared, Deep and large; The pile thereof is fire and much wood; The breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.”

Notice the word ‘Hearth’? That is your first clue. ‘Tophet’ is synonymous with the word ‘Hearth’.

The word Tophet has its origins from the Old Testament and the ‘Everlasting Fire’ of God that was to always be burning in the Brazen Altar…

Leviticus 6:13
“The fire shall ever be burning upon the altar; it shall never go out.”

Esh means Fire…

Strong's Hebrew: 784. אֵשׁ (esh) -- Fire

Jah means Jehovah…

Strong's Hebrew: 3050. יָהּ (Yah) -- LORD

Together they form ‘Esh-Jah’, the Fire of the LORD. Why is this important? According to the Scholars, the word Tophet is another name for a Goddess called ‘Vesta’, the 'Fire of the LORD'…

“…it is well known that the Romans had their goddess Vesta, whom Velleius Paterculus calls the keeper of the perpetual fires; and there were certain virgins, called the "vestal" virgins, whose business it was to take care that the fire never went out; and is by Virgil called the eternal fire”

“…and Vesta itself is thought by some learned men to be the same with (hy-va) "Esh-jah", the fire of Jehovah…”

Leviticus 6:13 - Bible Verse Meaning and Commentary

What does Leviticus 6:13 mean? Read commentary on this popular Bible verse and understand the real meaning behind God's Word using John Gill's Exposition of the Bible.

www.biblestudytools.com

Vesta is the Roman equivalent to the Greek Hestia. Note that Hestia is the Sister of Hades. The word ‘Hades’ is used in the Bible several times. Thus, it is no surprise that Hesta/Vesta would be in the Bible as well.

Remember the word 'Hearth'? Vesta/Hestia is the Goddess of the Hearth…

Isaiah 30:33 (JPS Tanakh 1917)
“For a hearth is ordered of old; Yea, for the king it is prepared, Deep and large; The pile thereof is fire and much wood; The breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.”

And now we are ready for the part that Christians are forbidden to know about.

Vesta’s (Tophet’s) image was almost never depicted in art. Why?

“The myths depicting Vesta and her priestesses were few; the most notable of them were tales of miraculous impregnation of a virgin priestess by a phallus appearing in the flames of the sacred hearth — the manifestation of the goddess combined with a male supernatural being.”

Vesta (mythology) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And there you have it. According to the Bible, the Lake of Fire is the Moment of Conception.

Satan has managed to deceive Christians for thousands of years. That time is now over. You are welcome.

​

 

[Patrick1966]

[/QUOTE]

Makes sense I think...?

 

[QuantumBit]

Unsaved person = child of hell.

What Jesus said here is not rocket surgery.

Yet this verse teaches that we all are Children born out of Hell...

Psalms 139:15
"My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth."

According to your logic, we are all Unsaved now.

By the way...

"Twofold more the Child of Hell" means that the person was not only born once from the lowest parts of the Earth, but will be born out of it again.

 

[friend of]

And there you have it. According to the Bible, the Lake of Fire is the Moment of Conception.

The LoF is divine punishment. I'm just going to back away slowly now. Goodbye.

 

[Wrangler]

I was following your logic. You say that judgment comes once per life. You tell me how is it this tree is judged four times?

Trees are not humans.

 

[Wrangler]

Nevermind that you are completely ignoring foundational principles taught throughout scripture

Reincarnation is not a principle in Scripture - neither fundamental nor otherwise.

Forget “reincarnation.” You and so many others can’t get passed the term.

It’s not the term; it’s the anti-scriptural concept.

 

[MatthewG]

Would be no point in being recreated, in the sense of coming back to physically live on earth. I don’t believe it is what Jesus presents in the Gospel, nor Paul.

 

[friend of]

Trees are not humans.

But in the parable the fruitless tree represents a fruitless professor / fruitless unrepentant unbeliever.