How are we to reckon ourselves as being dead to sin?

[ChristisGod]

So you make a sharp distinction between "born again" and "born of the Spirit"-when there is none?

“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.--

Read the Scriptures-are you really saying we don't "need to be born again?" Yes or no--that's all I want to know from you

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


John 3:3

Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

John 3:5

Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Romans 10:9

that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

1 Peter 1:3

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

2 Corinthians 5:17

Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

Romans 6:3

Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?

1 Peter 1:23

for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.

Acts 2:38

Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Romans 6:23

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Galatians 3:26

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

John 3:6

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Titus 3:5

He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

Romans 10:9-10
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Genesis 2:7

Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

John 3:3-7
Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus *said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

Ephesians 2:1

And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,

Colossians 2:13

When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,


John 3:16
Verse Concepts
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.



James 1:18
Verse Concepts
In the exercise of His will He brought us forth by the word of truth, so that we would be a kind of first fruits among His creatures.

1 Corinthians 2:14

But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

1 Peter 1:22-25
Since you have in obedience to the truth purified your souls for a sincere love of the brethren, fervently love one another from the heart, for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God. For,
“All flesh is like grass,
And all its glory like the flower of grass.
The grass withers,
And the flower falls off,

John 1:12

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,

John 6:44

No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

Romans 6:4

Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

Colossians 2:12

having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

Romans 8:9

However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

John 1:13

who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Colossians 2:11

and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;

the person is a wolf in sheeps clothing denying the new birth and teaching a false gospel denying the necessity of the new birth that comes from the preaching of the gospel. he denies the gospel of our salvation hence denying Christ Himself. this is exactly how the enemy works sounding spiritual, using spiritual words to deceive- mixing truth with error/lies. its the very spirit of antichrist John describes in 1 and 2 John and what Jesus said in Matthew 23-24 and Jesus in John 8:39-45. Paul in Acts 20 and the book of Jude.

 

[mailmandan]

the person is a wolf in sheeps clothing denying the new birth and teaching a false gospel denying the necessity of the new birth that comes from the preaching of the gospel. he denies the gospel of our salvation hence denying Christ Himself. this is exactly how the enemy works sounding spiritual, using spiritual words to deceive- mixing truth with error/lies. its the very spirit of antichrist John describes in 1 and 2 John and what Jesus said in Matthew 23-24 and Jesus in John 8:39-45. Paul in Acts 20 and the book of Jude.

 

[Episkopos]

“Compare that self-preservational attitude with Paul who was willing to lose his salvation ...his precious foundation of self...so that his brethren might be saved. Compare your attitude to that of Moses who defended his people...even when he could have smugly condemned them and got away with it.”

LOVE what you said. I Went to bed last night wrestling with where are you God?
Then this morning reading your post, you reminded me. What you said above …to me is Him perfectly. He who had all the riches but became poor that we might be made rich. There is His Spirit.

I still need a break from here. One verse that stands out to me is “wait on your ministry”. Emphasis on “wait” for the gift of the Spirit. has always stood out to me. To me meaning don’t try to get ahead of Him. But wait. The other day while painting the trim in our house…it became clear what I should be doing instead of fighting on here. Thank you for all that you have shared …even when I was in the beginning attacking you with my already presumed “I know everything already about this guy.” I’m sorry I presumed so much.

Again, bless you. I know that there are those who will hear the the truth from the inner person of the heart...in spite of al the noisy static that is produced by religious assumptions and presumptions that tries to negate the wisdom and logic of the biblical narrative.

 

[ChristisGod]

I

Yeah, I’m not so certain I’ve been born again. I do believe I have the Spirit of God though, but it appears Johann doesn’t believe this to be the case. I could be wrong though. I have a hard time understanding his posts.

Born again, born of God, born of the Spirit and born of Him(Jesus) are all synonyms. We know when Jesus spoke to Nicodemus that he was not born again. Jesus told him of his need to be born from above.

John 3:3
3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."

John 3:6
6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

1 John 2:29
29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone also who practices righteousness is born of Him.

1 John 3:9
9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him;

1 John 4:7
7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.

1 John 5:1
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.

1 John 5:4
4 For whoever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world — our faith.

1 John 5:18
18 We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

1 Peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By His great mercy He has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1 Peter 1:23-25
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24 For,
“All people are like grass,
and all their glory is like the flowers of the field;
the grass withers and the flowers fall,
25 but the word of the Lord endures forever.”
And this is the word that was preached to you.


James 1:18
He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we would be a kind of firstfruits of His creation.


terms such as born again (John 3:3), born of God (John 1:13), and born of the Spirit (John 3:6). They all mean the same thing. Birth metaphors are used because we all understand physical birth. When a baby is born, a new person emerges into the world. The new life will grow, and the young person will come to resemble his or her parents. When we are born of the Spirit, a “new person” arrives with a new spiritual life. And as we grow, we come to resemble our Father in heaven (Romans 8:29)got?


We have no more control over our physical birth than we do our spiritual birth. Man is born dead in his trespasses and sins ( Ephesians 2:1-3). We are spiritually dead hence the need for our spiritual birth which comes from the Holy Spirit as we read in John 3. Peter tells us it comes from God , not ourselves : he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3). Just as Lazarus who was dead physically and could not come out of the grave until Jesus gave him life, so we cannot come alive without the regeneration of our spirit by Christ.

John 5:21
For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

Ephesians 2:1
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Ephesians 2:5
made us alive with Christ even though we were dead in trespasses. You are saved by grace!

Colossians 2:13
When you were dead in your trespasses and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our trespasses

hope this helps !!!

 

[ChristisGod]

View attachment 31531

Amen brother !

notice the imposter cannot use the word of God but only opinions and ideas. Zero biblical basis for his false teachings and refuses to define biblical words and their meanings when asked. The real man of God will gladly give anyone a reason for the hope that he has in him as Peter commands we give an apologetic answer to those who ask us,

1 Peter 3:15
But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

Colossians 4:6
Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.

2 Timothy 2:25
He must gently reprove those who oppose him, in the hope that God may grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth.

 

[Episkopos]

I

Yeah, I’m not so certain I’ve been born again. I do believe I have the Spirit of God though, but it appears Johann doesn’t believe this to be the case. I could be wrong though. I have a hard time understanding his posts.

I never seek to push anyone in a religious way. I avoid dogmatic presumptions like the plague. The important thing is to keep the main things the main things. It's important to love others as ourselves...to be humble, to fear the Lord. I think pushing a spiritual status on people is self-defeating.

 

[ChristisGod]

I never seek to push anyone in a religious way. I avoid dogmatic presumptions like the plague. The important thing is to keep the main things the main things. It's important to love others as ourselves...to be humble, to fear the Lord. I think pushing a spiritual status on people is self-defeating.

That is because you don't know or understand the gospel. Believing and receiving the gospel is the only way one can be saved and become born again.

1 Corinthians 15:1-3- Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

Romans 1:16- For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

1 Peter 1:23-For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

1 Peter 1:3-Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By His great mercy He has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

James 1:18- He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we would be a kind of firstfruits of His creation.

John 1:12-13- Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

John 3:3- Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

 

[ChristisGod]

Again, bless you. I know that there are those who will hear the the truth from the inner person of the heart...in spite of al the noisy static that is produced by religious assumptions and presumptions that tries to negate the wisdom and logic of the biblical narrative.

more empty rhetoric and religiosity with no scripture.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

For those who struggle with what it means to be born again...and who feel they must claim to be so to be saved.


That which is born of the flesh is flesh. If we are physically alive we normally have the temporal faculties to navigate our way through the physical world. We are present and aware...given a temporal consciousness in the environment of the temporal world. We lose our awareness, and our temporal consciousness of the physical world when we sleep.

That which is born of Spirit is Spirit. The only way to enter into the realm of the Spirit, and be given spiritual faculties, is to be born of the Spirit. Is this necessary to be saved from sin? Yes. Only the higher kingdom spiritual walk empowers a person with resurrection life. The Holy Spirit gives us an eternal awareness...an eternal consciousness...otherwise we are spiritually dead or asleep.

Is it necessary to be born again to inherit life after death? No. There has never been a cancelling of the lower standard of righteousness. We are still to love our neighbours as ourselves. We will still be judged by what we have done with what we have been given.

By claiming to be born again, we put ourselves into a much harder judgment category. With that claim we will be judged against every saint that ever lived. So then it is foolish to claim to be something we are not. We are not to esteem ourselves to be MORE than we are. The fire of judgment will reveal the truth about who and what we are.

Why isn't there a warning against claiming to be LESS than we are? God loves the humble.

and here we go

We must be saved from sin, saved to live a sinless life

He does not believe we are saved from the penalty of sin.;

which is why he does not understand what it means to be born again. He thinks he can be dead in sin and do things for God..

 

[ChristisGod]

and here we go

We must be saved from sin, saved to live a sinless life

He does not believe we are saved from the penalty of sin.;

which is why he does not understand what it means to be born again. He thinks he can be dead in sin and do things for God..

ditto a false gospel, another jesus as Paul describes in Galatians 1:6-10.

 

[ChristisGod]

I don't see any mention of hell in anything concerning being born again or not. I think the hell comes from the religious minds who interpret the bible falsely. ....and to their own advantage.

If someone says....unless you put on your glasses...you cannot read the paper. Does that mean that if you forgot your glasses..you are going to hell? Or you are not "saved" ????

What kind of person is so obsessed with being saved that every verse is meant as a zero-sum game of salvation or not?

How can people discuss anything with such indoctrination?

And when salvation IS in the balance..those verses are deemed to be for others.

So then unwittingly...if the warnings are meant for those who WILL be saved...and you see those verses for others and not yourselves... then...

since you deny hell you might as well deny heaven since Jesus and the Apostles many times mention them together in their teachings/writings. you might as well deny there are believers and unbelievers as well since those are the two places believers and unbelievers will spend eternity. you might as well also deny there is good and evil, sin, salvation, the gospel, Jesus, Gods eternal word etc...... oh wait a minute you actually do epi.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Episkopos]

and here we go

We must be saved from sin, saved to live a sinless life

We must be born again to be saved from sin. Yes, Jesus came to take away the sins of the world.

He does not believe we are saved from the penalty of sin.;

That's right. We reap what we sow. The wages of sin is death.

which is why he does not understand what it means to be born again.

I understand your American version of being born again. I just don't think it is according to the truth. I believe it is based on religious presumption.

What I do understand...which you cannot fathom...is the gospel that Jesus, Paul and the other apostles preached. A gospel according to power from heaven.

He thinks he can be dead in sin

Sin brings death. Rather, we can be dead IN Christ...and be alive to God. In Him is no sin.

and do things for God..

Yes he does! :)

 

[Johann]

2 Corinthians 4:1-2 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; [2] But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

Excellent-so would you agree Epi is handling the word of God deceitfully?

"Nor handling the Word of God deceitfully," (mede dolountes ton logon tou theou) "nor polluting, that is adulterating, the Word of God," to please any party, or curry the favor of any, 2Co_10:3; Col_2:4.
To every conscience of men (pros pāsan suneidēsin anthrōpōn). Not to whim, foible, prejudice. 2Co_3:1-6 for “commending” (sunistanontes).


2Co 3:1 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
2Co 3:2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
2Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
2Co 3:4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
2Co 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Unless, of course, you are referring to me adulterating Scriptures?
But thank you for the Scripture reference and for reaching out to me, I'm not here to "bite and devour" and I certainly "don't know it all" but what I do know, I'll gladly share sister.

2Ti_4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.


2Ti_2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

I am sure we are here to "rightly cutting straight" the D'varim of YHVH and not introduce a heteron gospel, yes?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I

Yeah, I’m not so certain I’ve been born again. I do believe I have the Spirit of God though, but it appears Johann doesn’t believe this to be the case. I could be wrong though. I have a hard time understanding his posts.

if you have not been born again, Your still dead in your sin.

John 3: 3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Its not a suggestion, Its a requirment

 

[Eternally Grateful]

We must be born again to be saved from sin. Yes, Jesus came to take away the sins of the world.

No. we must be born again because we are DEAD because of sin.

One who is dead must be made alive..

That's right. We reap what we sow. The wages of sin is death.

which is why you must be born again, because all have sinned and missed the mark

I understand your American version of being born again. I just don't think it is according to the truth. I believe it is based on religious presumption.

You do not understand born again at all..

Your people are still dead in sin, no wonder they have no power to walk in he spirit

What I do understand...which you cannot fathom...is the gospel that Jesus, Paul and the other apostles preached. A gospel according to power from heaven.

Sin brings death. Rather, we can be dead IN Christ...and be alive to God. In Him is no sin.

Yes he does! :)

What you fail top understand is Jesus paul and especially John taught that we must be born again, We are made alive through faith in christ. and that unless we are made alive, we are dead in sin.

Your not going to get to heaven unless the lamb of God takes your sin away.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

“Compare that self-preservational attitude with Paul who was willing to lose his salvation ...his precious foundation of self...so that his brethren might be saved. Compare your attitude to that of Moses who defended his people...even when he could have smugly condemned them and got away with it.”

LOVE what you said. I Went to bed last night wrestling with where are you God?
Then this morning reading your post, you reminded me. What you said above …to me is Him perfectly. He who had all the riches but became poor that we might be made rich. There is His Spirit.

I still need a break from here. One verse that stands out to me is “wait on your ministry”. Emphasis on “wait” for the gift of the Spirit. has always stood out to me. To me meaning don’t try to get ahead of Him. But wait. The other day while painting the trim in our house…it became clear what I should be doing instead of fighting on here. Thank you for all that you have shared …even when I was in the beginning attacking you with my already presumed “I know everything already about this guy.” I’m sorry I presumed so much.

I prayed for you last night.. That you would see how you are being deceived by a spirit of legalism and religion. and that you would see the truth behind God and the gift he wants to offer you. through the price of his own blood.

 

[Johann]

I never seek to push anyone in a religious way. I avoid dogmatic presumptions like the plague. The important thing is to keep the main things the main things. It's important to love others as ourselves...to be humble, to fear the Lord. I think pushing a spiritual status on people is self-defeating.

You are in denial of the necessity of the new birth and your disciple @Waiting on him said "he is not sure that he is reborn-but [I do believe I have the Holy Spirit]

Why don't you correct your disciple? But wait, this is how YOU believe contradicting yourself in making a distinction between the new birth and being born from the Pneuma when it is the same.

By reading your post this should be in the "unsaved section" since this is not the gospel you are promulgating-but Gnosticism, or worse, Atheism.

Unbelievable

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Again, bless you. I know that there are those who will hear the the truth from the inner person of the heart...in spite of al the noisy static that is produced by religious assumptions and presumptions that tries to negate the wisdom and logic of the biblical narrative.

My friend

All you offer is religion.. You are decieving others using these words to try to deflect.

You do not even understand what it means to be born again. You think you can walk in front of God still dead in your sin.

That will not happen..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You are in denial of the necessity of the new birth and your disciple @Waiting on him said "he is not sure that he is reborn-but [I do believe I have the Holy Spirit]

Why don't you correct your disciple? But wait, this is how YOU believe contradicting yourself in making a distinction between the new birth and being born from the Pneuma when it is the same.

By reading your post this should be in the "unsaved section" since this is not the gospel you are promulgating-but Gnosticism, or worse, Atheism.

Unbelievable

its sad. They also claim they have never walked in the spirit.

what religion is there that teaches those who are gods children can become one without being born again, and they never walk int he spirit?

 

[ChristisGod]

No. we must be born again because we are DEAD because of sin.

One who is dead must be made alive..


which is why you must be born again, because all have sinned and missed the mark

You do not understand born again at all..

Your people are still dead in sin, no wonder they have no power to walk in he spirit

What you fail top understand is Jesus paul and especially John taught that we must be born again, We are made alive through faith in christ. and that unless we are made alive, we are dead in sin.

Your not going to get to heaven unless the lamb of God takes your sin away.

No new birth, no new life, no salvation, no eternal life, no forgiveness of sins.