Why Hell is not a place of eternal conscious torment.

[Michiah-Imla]

the Lake of Fire is a real place. While they are real and literal places, the duration of punishment in these places is not eternal.

“And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.” (Revelation 20:10)

FOR EVER AND EVER

Forever, eternally; to perpetuity; during everlasting continuance.

 

[Jack]

To all:

Hell is a real place and the Lake of Fire is a real place. While they are real and literal places, the duration of punishment in these places is not eternal. Isaiah 66:24 shows the destruction of the wicked. Even the devil is said to be destroyed in Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28.

Then why did Jesus say "eternal", "everlasting" "forever and ever"?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

the duration of punishment in these places is not eternal.

Then why did Jesus say "eternal", "everlasting" "forever and ever"?

 

[friend of]

Fair enough.
What is the purpose of the Lake of Fire?
Meaningful, or meaningless?
What will it accomplish?

Mainly punishment, but also to God's glory in destroying His enemies, I think. "And these will go into everlasting punishment"

I am personally not happy that the punishment needs to be so severe, but that's just me.

Edit: The duration may be eternal or it may only last an "age" I don't honestly know.

 

[St. SteVen]

Mainly punishment, but also to God's glory in destroying His enemies, I think. "And these will go into everlasting punishment"

I am personally not happy that the punishment needs to be so severe, but that's just me.

Edit: The duration may be eternal or it may only last an "age" I don't honestly know.

You will find this interesting.

Aionios mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46.

All these verses below use the same NT Greek word, "aionios", the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46. See bold below. This shows that "aionios" cannot mean eternal or everlasting.

Matthew 13:22
The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.

Romans 12:2
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

1 Corinthians 1:20
Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

1 Corinthians 2:8
None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Ephesians 2:2
in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

Galatians 1:4-5 KJV
Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Compare: Matthew 12:32; Mark 10:30; Luke 18:30; Luke 20:35; Ephesians 1:21

Luke 18:29-30
“Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30 will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.”

Aionios, the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in the Bible (eternal hell?)

 

[amigo de christo]

If this is the topic you want to expound on, do so,--

2Ti 2:14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

1) "Study to shew thyself approved unto God" (spoudoson seauton dokimon parastesai to theo) "Be eager to present (stand up straight) thyself approved toward God," or give diligence to present thyself and thy work to God, approved. What God approves, He will bless.

2) "A workman that needeth not to be ashamed" (ergaten anepaischunton) "A workman unashamed or unblushing," that needs not blush or be ashamed. One is neither to be ashamed of the Word of God or work of God. He is to study that he may be able to teach or preach it without blushing, Joh_5:39; Act_17:11; 1Pe_3:15.

3) “Rightly dividing the word of truth" (orthotomounta ton logon tes aletheias) "Cutting straight (in an orthodox manner), (rightly dividing or dissecting) the Word of truth." Rightly administering the Word and work of God, or rightly handling it, Luk_24:44, according to the Lord's Commission, Mar_16:15; Mat_28:18-20; Act_1:8.

To study and rightly divide the word of truth leads to right conclusions. To study the Word wrongly divided, out of contextual setting, leads to wrong conclusions, errors, perversions, and distortions of the Word of truth.
Study: Heb_4:11; 2Pe_1:10, 2Pe_1:15, 2Pe_3:14 *Gr.
approved: Act_2:22; Rom_14:18, Rom_16:10; 2Co_5:9, 2Co_10:18; Gal_1:10; 1Th_2:4
a workman: Mat_13:52; 2Co_3:6, 2Co_6:3-4; 1Ti_4:6, 1Ti_4:12-16
rightly: Mat_13:52; Mar_4:33; Luk_12:42; Joh_21:15-17; Act_20:27; 1Co_2:6, 1Co_3:1-2; 2Co_4:2; 1Th_5:14; Heb_5:11-14

Handling aright (orthotomounta). Present active participle of orthotomeō, late and rare compound (orthotomos), cutting straight, orthos and temnō), here only in N.T.

It occurs in Pro_3:6; Pro_11:5 for making straight paths (hodous) with which compare Heb_12:13 and “the Way” in Act_9:2. Theodoret explains it to mean ploughing a straight furrow. Parry argues that the metaphor is the stone mason cutting the stones straight since temnō and orthos are so used. Since Paul was a tent-maker and knew how to cut straight the rough camel-hair cloth, why not let that be the metaphor? Certainly plenty of exegesis is crooked enough (crazy-quilt patterns) to call for careful cutting to set it straight.
Robertson

Is that what Paul is saying--preach Christ, and Him crucified?
Or preach hell--everyone terrified?--believe it or no, the majority is not even afraid of Hell or eternal consequences. Nor the preaching of the thunders and lightning's of Mt. Sinai

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

Joh 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Shalom brother, sorry for the edit, an afterthought-
J.

We should always behold both the goodness of GOD and His severity .
Most all the time i stick to preaching Christ and Him crucified and reminding all of the dire need to believe on Him .
And the dangers to those who reject Him . It depends on what i am led to do my friend .
The apostels did exactly what JESUS had said to do to those who rejected the gospel of Christ .
They always preach CHRIST and then later when folks got hardened or rejected them
They shook the dust off as a testimony against them .
That came from this .
IF one recieves you not , when you exit that city shake the dust off your feet as a testimony against them
I tell you it will be worse for that city on the day of judgment than for sodom .
Jesus , his gospel , ITS DIRE NECESSARY folks believe in Him . And this man , by grace , is gonna continually
point to Christ and Him crucified . Now lift those hands up and let the LORD be praised my friend .

 

[Patrick1966]

Then why did Jesus say "eternal", "everlasting" "forever and ever"?

I don't believe that Jesus said that. I believe the translation of the original scripture into English changed what Jesus said. I believe that Jesus said that people would be damned for the age or an age, not FOREVER.

 

[Patrick1966]

Mainly punishment, but also to God's glory in destroying His enemies, I think. "And these will go into everlasting punishment"

I am personally not happy that the punishment needs to be so severe, but that's just me.

Edit: The duration may be eternal or it may only last an "age" I don't honestly know.

My brother, I encourage you to invest 15 minutes and listen to this explanation of the Lake of Fire.

 

[Jack]

I don't believe that Jesus said that. I believe the translation of the original scripture into English changed what Jesus said. I believe that Jesus said that people would be damned for the age or an age, not FOREVER.

I don't think you're qualified to rewrite our Bibles. Are you really willing to risk burning in Hell yourself?

 

[Patrick1966]

and brimstone

Why would God use (figuratively) brimstone?

 

[Patrick1966]

I don't think you're qualified to rewrite our Bibles. Are you really willing to risk burning in Hell yourself?

 

[Jack]

Why would God use (figuratively) brimstone?

Quote the Scripture.

 

[Jack]

View attachment 31511

I don't know of any English translation that doesn't say you're WRONG!

 

[Patrick1966]

Brimstone is an agent used for refining. Why would God use a refining agent if his intent is to torture someone forever?

 

[Patrick1966]

I don't know of any English translation that doesn't say you're WRONG!

Young's Literal Translation, for one. There are several others but I do confess that most of Christianity, including yourself, believe in the world's version of God the destroyer and torturer.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

“And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.” (Revelation 20:10)

FOR EVER AND EVER

Forever, eternally; to perpetuity; during everlasting continuance.

And you have to ignore and or change the plain reading of these verses in Scripture.

1. The Tree in the Garden (See here).
2. Revelation 21:8 says that the Lake of Fire is the Second Death. The Second Death is related to the First Death. But in ECT this is not the case; They are not really related.
3. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body..." (Matthew 10:28). In this verse Jesus compares to not be afraid of those who kill (destroy) the body, but be afraid of the One (Jesus) who can destroy the soul. The parallel is destroyed in ECT.
4. There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy" (James 4:12). Save AND DESTROY. But in ECT, the word “destroy” does not really mean, “destroy.”
5. "...who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel" (2 Tim 1:10). In ECT, there is no immortality through the gospel. Everyone is either already immortal or they will be immortal regardless of the gospel.
6. Jesus (God) alone has immortality-anyone else becomes immortal only as a result of God's gracious gift (1 Timothy 6:16, Romans 2:7). Yet, in ECT this is not the case.
7. To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: (Romans 2:7). Yet, in ECT, Why are we told to seek after eternal life if everyone is already going to live eternally?
8. Jude 1:7 - eternal fire. Just because the fire is “eternal fire” does that mean Sodom and Gomorrha is still burning today? Certainly not. But ECT Proponents just brush this truth aside and put their fingers intheir ears and move on (With them not really dealing with the truth).
9. Hebrews 6:2 says there is an “eternal judgment.” Does that mean that God is going to judging saved and unsaved for a finite amount of people for all eternity? Surely not. So then to say that “everlasting” (or eternal) punishment must be interpreted in the same way is silly (Especially when there are Conditional Immortality verses that ECT proponents love to ignore or twist).
10. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. (John 6:51). Again, in ECT, these words by our Lord Jesus do not really mean anything. Why should we care if we live forever if everyone is going to live forever anyways? It doesn’t make any sense.
11. Whose end is destruction, (Philippians 3:19). Yet, in ECT, they don’t believe the the wicked will have an end that is destruction.
12. 2 Thessalonians 1:9-Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction. In ECT, they don’t believe this word “destruction” is to be read literally. They somehow favor a God who punishes people way beyond what the crime calls for.
13. Hebrews 10:39-But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition. (Greek: perdion means “destruction”).
14. , "He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal." John 12:25. Again, how can one really lose his life if they live eternally in conscious torment in fire? Technically their life is not lost in ECT.
15. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 6:23). In ECT, death is not really the wages of sin because they will live forever. In ECT, eternal life is not really a gift of eternal life because everyone will have eternal life regardless of whether they receive the gift of eternal life or not. So more twisting or ignoring of Scripture is involved if one believes in ECT.

 

[Patrick1966]

So more twisting or ignoring of Scripture is involved if one believes in ECT.

You spewed many untruths in your post.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

“And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.” (Revelation 20:10)

FOR EVER AND EVER

Forever, eternally; to perpetuity; during everlasting continuance.

Philemon 1:15 (KJB)
”For perhaps he therefore departed for a season, that thou shouldest receive him for ever;”

So lets get this straight. Do you believe Onesimus was being received by his master forever or all eternity?

What about the words “eternal Judgment” in Hebrews 6:2?
Do you believe God will be judging saved people, and unsaved people for all eternity?

The word “ever” can also be defined in the English dictionary differently, as well.

Ever:
(adverb):
To a great extent or degree.

Dictionary Source:
Ever dictionary definition | ever defined
So while this may not be 100% biblical fact, it may possibly mean in Revelation 20:10 as saying,

“...shall be tormented day and night for ever [a great extent] and ever [degree].”​

Also, the beast and the false prophets are demons in Revelation 20:10, and not wicked men. The false prophet in Revelation 16:13-14 is implied to be the one who is the second beast who rose up out of the earth (Revelation 13:11-15). So even if one wanted to take the words for ever and ever literally in Revelation 20:10, it is referring to demons and not wicked humans.

1 Corinthians 15:26 says,
“The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.”

If we believe the last enemy to be destroyed is death, this strongly implies that there are other previous enemies of God who will also be destroyed, as well.
This is EXACTLY what we see described of the devil in Ezekiel 28.
“By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.” (Ezekiel 28:16).

Smoke of torment ascending for ever and ever” is a metaphorical phrase from Isaiah 34:10 that says,

“It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.” (Isaiah 34:10).

Notice the words "night nor day shall not be quenched” in the verse.
The burning pitch or fire will not be quenched night or day. The smoke ascends up forever.
But this must be a metaphor for destruction.

Why?

Well, surely the fire and smoke of the city of Edom will not go up for all eternity because Jesus says Heaven and Earth will pass away (Matthew 24:35) and Revelation 21:1 says, “the first heaven and the first earth were passed away.” You cannot have eternal cities burning forever on a planet that passes away. It doesn’t make any sense. So this lets us know that the words "for ever and ever" and “night and day” is in reference to the language for destruction. This is how I believe that we are to interpret Scripture. We interpret Scripture with Scripture (Isaiah 28:10).

 

[Marvelloustime]

says the man who couldnt speak a word of greek
yet pretended to hear from GOD and then changed parts of the bible to fit his own belief .
GOD is HIS WORD as HE is HIS SPIRIT and HE IS SPIRIT and HIS WORD IS SPIRIT . Its his own essence coming forth of HIM .
My advice is flee the JW camp . Also if we have any mormons , any of the RCC and calvnists and etc
BETTER Flee such places and fast . Folks are being lied too . Time to open the Holy Bible
and always beware men who try and attack it and then make their own copy of it . YEAH that wont bode well for those .

Ooops… didn’t “they” forget to take this out of their bibles?

 

[Marvelloustime]

Another scripture that proves the Deity of Jesus.
Sound it out @amigo de christo