How are we to reckon ourselves as being dead to sin?

[Jim B]

When one dont even believe one has to believe n CHRIST , how on earth are they then gonna teach anyone how to follow HIM .
THEY dont follow Him . IF they did , they would have KNOWN HE was and is the ONLY WAY TO GOD . They would
have taught , said , or preached BELIEVE YE IN CHRIST JESUS the only name whereby you can be saved .

Lizbeth wrote "Of course we count the cost of following Christ and He said it costs everything to follow Him. Nobody is disputing that. Why do you assume it?" and the above is your reply? Really? Why not pay attrention before you spout your usual nonsense?

 

[Lizbeth]

No no no… that would be like turning Christ’s own words of loss but gaining so much more…into “powerless to help us”

You fear: “We will lose the “salt”
When salt has lost its savour…men cast it out as no good. Not fit for anything. Not fit for the kingdom. Not fit neither for the dung heap. If salt has lost its taste?
Where then will the salt get its savour? From Christ.
Psalm 34:1-11 I will bless the Lord at all times: his praise shall continually be in my mouth. [2] My soul shall make her boast in the Lord : the humble shall hear thereof, and be glad. [3] O magnify the Lord with me, and let us exalt his name together. [4] I sought the Lord, and he heard me, and delivered me from all my fears. [5] They looked unto him, and were lightened: and their faces were not ashamed. [6] This poor man cried, and the Lord heard him, and saved him out of all his troubles. [7] The angel of the Lord encampeth round about them that fear him, and delivereth them. [8] O taste and see that the Lord is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him. [9] O fear the Lord, you his saints: for there is no want (lack)to them that fear him. [10] The young lions do lack, and suffer hunger: but they that seek the Lord shall not want any good thing. [11] Come, ye children, hearken unto me: I will teach you the fear of the Lord.

Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Savour …the salt, taste… “it has lost its taste!” “It is weird…strange. why don’t they walk with us anymore?”
2 Corinthians 2:14-17 Now thanks be unto God, which always causes us to triumph in Christ, and makes manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place. [15] For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: [16] To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things? Christ. [17] For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

Think we're complicating and confusing what is simple. The purpose of that passage in 2 Cor 3 was to instruct and warn. I just don't think we should distract from and confuse the purpose of those passages, by feminizing, castrating and rendering impotent what was meant for our good. Why would God give a warning where hope is needed, or instill hope where warning is needed. There are different purposes for different passages. Someone who is building with wood hay and stubble needs to receive the warning and instruction in those verses.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You spoke of the one whose house is on fire. But come back with it doesn’t apply. Ok.

That is The picture paul was using. To explain how a person on that day can suffer loss. Yet still be saved.

Its not speaking of what you are tryign to make it say.. It is not a judgment that is happening right now. He used the greek word used as a rewards ceremony.. where the judge hands out the rewards..

 

[Lizbeth]

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved (wood, hay, stubble), we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

And all the rest of that passage but it is too much to post…consider the magnitude of what you posted, the Hope in, the good news Gospel in “it said he will still be rescued (saved) even as through fire. I explained that yesterday how a man escapes his burning house. But he loses everything he had.. Still he was saved out of the fire or through fire.

What is dissolved? But have no fear. “We have a building not made with hands”

…death of that one who suffered loss of everything he had.. “loosing everything he had” …Paul by the same Spirit that was in Christ is an example.
Yet dissolved …”rescued” saved by whom?

Yeah well, whoever is building with wood hay and stubble NEEDS to fear the Lord and take warning from Him, for their good and the good fo the church. It's that simple, and God is not the author of confusion.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Matthew 3:11-12 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and with fire: [12] Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

The baptism of Christ where “He shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and with fire” “he will burn up the chaff” …the message seems to be He has not baptized any with fire …yet. No Holy Spirit, and with fire. Only endless debates over sprinkled or submerged? And…a futuristic baptism of Christ that purges “with the Holy Spirit, and with fire” , that burns up the chaff…

No fire. No loss. What suffered loss? What fire? That is promoting works of the flesh. it is said Paul never was baptized by fire. where does it say Paul was saved by Fire? Then he walked in the chaff instead of the Life I now Live, I Live in Christ.

“Judgement begins at the House of God”? Which House you are; if His Spirit abides in you…and you in Him.

The debate is because people try to use a non native english word to show what is being said

John said, I baptise with water (he is doing that right now)

But HE (Jesus) Will baptise with the Holy Spirit and fire

He then explains what he means, A winnowing fan is used by wheat farmers to seperate the wheat from the chaff.. Then the wheat is placed into the barn.. they then take the chaff that is left and burn it.

Again, a picture of what Christ will do to seperate the what (children of God ) from the chaff (the lost)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Think we're complicating and confusing what is simple. The purpose of that passage in 2 Cor 3 was to instruct and warn. I just don't think we should distract from and confuse the purpose of those passages, by feminizing, castrating and rendering impotent what was meant for our good. Why would God give a warning where hope is needed, or instill hope where warning is needed. There are different purposes for different passages. Someone who is building with wood hay and stubble needs to receive the warning and instruction in those verses.

They also need to understand what kind of judgment it is..

its a rewards ceremony..not a judgment where we are tried to see who is guilty and who is innocent.

 

[ChristisGod]

Yeah, Reading skills. No one said someone was saying the foundation is not Christ. All I was doing was breaking the passage down. If you were not so busy trying to defend yourself. You might be able to see that.

I am not confusing anything, I am just stating what the passage says. On THAT DAY, our works will be tried by fire..


lol. Cast to outer darkness? That person was not saved.. so how was his salvation downgraded? It said he will still be rescued (saved) even as through fire. I explained that yesterday how a man escapes his burning house. But he loses everything he had.. Still he was saved out of the fire or through fire.

You not showing me how I am wrong in what I am saying,

lol. It does not matter what the flesh wants, The people who are Gods children WILL have their works tried by fire.. We are tried for what we did. Not for what we are doing

Not in the passage..

Or I can just read the passage and interpret it. And not be like you and destroy the passage and its wording to make it fit my belief system.

No. If you read the passage, the baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire are what God with his winnowing fan. He seperates the wheat Ithe righteous) front he chaff ( the lost) and he gathers the wheat and puts in in the barn (representative of heaven)

but the chaff he will burn with an unquntiable fire.. (representative of eternal hellfire)

your reading comprehension of this baptism of fire is just as bad as yoru reading of Romans 6 and crucify with christ, and 1 cor 3 and a future bema seat judgment.

Ditto

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Think we're complicating and confusing what is simple. The purpose of that passage in 2 Cor 3 was to instruct and warn. I just don't think we should distract from and confuse the purpose of those passages, by feminizing, castrating and rendering impotent what was meant for our good. Why would God give a warning where hope is needed, or instill hope where warning is needed. There are different purposes for different passages. Someone who is building with wood hay and stubble needs to receive the warning and instruction in those verses.

I don’t think (to me) it complicates the Gospel, but helps. I find encouragement and comfort in it. instead the message of Christ (Imo) reveals complications of tightly held doctrines of men. For us to see what we have refused to see. Or not wanted to see to hold on to …not having to go back to the beginning and begin again. Frustrating not the Gospel but our opinions. It is merciful I think, for him to deliver us from our delusions.

You said: “Why would God give a warning where hope is needed, or instill hope where warning is needed.” Agree. He does this. Or do you mean He doesn’t because if that is the case…parables?

You said “There are different purposes for different passages.”
Agree but in the same passages …one may see hope. One may see a warning of destruction. Should we douse the Hope in favor of only seeing destruction in the passages? What if one needs Hope?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

That is The picture paul was using. To explain how a person on that day can suffer loss. Yet still be saved.

You are all over the Hope but ignoring it for the destruction instead.

The fire saves that man.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The debate is because people try to use a non native english word to show what is being said

John said, I baptise with water (he is doing that right now)

But HE (Jesus) Will baptise with the Holy Spirit and fire

He then explains what he means, A winnowing fan is used by wheat farmers to seperate the wheat from the chaff.. Then the wheat is placed into the barn.. they then take the chaff that is left and burn it.

Again, a picture of what Christ will do to seperate the what (children of God ) from the chaff (the lost)

So you are saying there is no baptizing in the Holy Spirit, and with Fire? But this is yet to come? Then why did they look and see the gentiles also were baptized with the baptism of Christ? What of
Acts 2:16-19 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; [17] And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: [18] And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: [19] And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

Placed into His barn…where is this barn he gathers into? What of Paul saying when the time come God separated me from my mothers womb?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You are all over the Hope but ignoring it for the destruction instead.

The fire saves that man.

But he himself will be saved, even though as THROUGH FIRE.

it does Not say by fire.. it says AS IF HE WENT THROUGH FIRE.

If we are going to read somethign we should at least interpret it as written.

The fire does not save the man. The blood of christ saves the man. This is shown through out the word.. If you reject the blood. You will nto be saved..

You’re ignoring the true way to salvation.

if your not born again, You will not be part of this judgment by fire. You will be at the great white throne judgment, where there will bto no gold silver precious stone, wood hay or straw. Only eternal death.

 

[Lizbeth]

God is not the author of confusion, that's all I know, and boy does it get confusing around here.

There is also a lot of "snowflakiness" in the church today, just like in society today, where anything "negative" is perceived as being necessarily "bad". When what God wants to do is to raise up battle-hardened SOLDIERS of the cross who will endure the training of His DISICPLINE, which involves, fearing Him, being warned and suffering chastisements. We need to be careful we are not working against HIM, by teaching things that go contrary to His purposes:

Eze 13:22

Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So you are saying there is no baptizing in the Holy Spirit, and with Fire? But this is yet to come? Then why did they look and see the gentiles also were baptized with the baptism of Christ? Place into His barn…where is this barn? What of Paul saying when the time come God deprecated me from my mothers womb?

As usual you are not understanding a word I say.

I never said there is no baptism in the HS and fire. Will you please stop falsely accusing me of this.. You are doing the same thing EPI does.

John the Baptist is saying baptism in water is just that, A baptism in water.

The most important baptism is yet to come. The baptism of the Holy Spirit and the baptism of fire.

the wheat and chaff represent all mankind..

The barn represents heaven, from which CHrist came to save those which was lost

the chaff are those who reject christ. The fire is hell

once again, the words (the fire shall never be quenched) should show you what fire it is.

The baptism of the HS is seen in romans 6, 1 cor 12, Gal 5 (I think) it is the baptism which saved. where we are crucified with Christ, and that is why pau said we are to reckon ourselved dead to sin, for that same baptism.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

it does Not say by fire.. it says AS IF HE WENT THROUGH FIRE.

Gone through the fire
Or by the fire
Same thing

The fire does not save the man. The blood of christ saves the man. This is shown through out the word.. If you reject the blood. You will nto be saved..

The fire does not save the man.
The blood of Christ saves the man.
He is the Fire. His Spirit. Don’t buy it…Zechariah 2:4-5 And said unto him, Run, speak to this young man, saying, Jerusalem shall be inhabited as towns without walls for the multitude of men and cattle therein: [5] For I, saith the Lord, will be unto her a wall of fire round about, and will be the glory in the midst of her.

1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perishes, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

I know. That is a Mix- mash of verses and you are right. But still that is how I read the man who loss everything is saved. Read it how you like. As it has been exhausted in this thread. People are going to see what they choose to see. Destruction which yields destruction. Or Hope which yields Hope. Because unless I’m crazy what we give is what we receive. So really, you don’t have to stress over me. God is the only one who can help me see what you want me to see.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I never said there is no baptism in the HS and fire. Will you please stop falsely accusing me of this.. You are doing the same thing EPI does.

John the Baptist is saying baptism in water is just that, A baptism in water.

The most important baptism is yet to come. The baptism of the Holy Spirit and the baptism of fire.

“The most important baptism is yet to come. The baptism of the Holy Spirit and the baptism of fire.”

ok…I meant it is not now or hasn’t been but is still to come. Then why did they witness it?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

once again, the words (the fire shall never be quenched) should show you what fire it is.

Nahum 1:9-15 What do you imagine against the Lord ? he will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time. [10] For while they be folden together as thorns, and while they are drunken as drunkards, they shall be devoured as stubble fully dry. [11] There is one come out of thee, that imagines evil against the Lord, a wicked counsellor. [12] Thus saith the Lord ; Though they be quiet, and likewise many, yet thus shall they be cut down, when he shall pass through. Though I have afflicted thee, I will afflict thee no more. [13] For now will I break his yoke from off thee, and will burst thy bonds in sunder. [14] And the Lord hath given a commandment concerning thee, that no more of thy name be sown: out of the house of thy gods will I cut off the graven image and the molten image: I will make thy grave; for thou art vile. [15] Behold upon the mountains the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace! O Judah, keep thy solemn feasts, perform thy vows: for the wicked shall no more pass through thee; he is utterly cut off.

 

[ChristisGod]

This is a strawman...or it is based on a lack of reading skills. No one is saying that the foundation isn't Christ. The bible describes how we are to build on that foundation.


You are confusing a future judgment and what we are to do now to be assured of a better outcome on that day. This is about wisdom. I don't expect many to get that.


He will suffer loss if his works are burned up. There will be a downgrading of a person's salvation by either being sent into the nations or else being cast away into outer darkness.


It depends HOW we build. You are not reading at a high enough level to understand the meaning of the text.


This is plainly a bad reading. You are doing the usual dance around the narrative. We are to be careful HOW we build. The flesh wants a guarantee that EVERY work will be accepted. But God doesn't respect the ego aspirations of "believers."


Some to honour, and glory and others to dishonour, and shame.


That's all you are seemingly able to do. There are reading upgrades available online. But you will have to want to be honest in your reading.

The baptism of fire is what ensures that we are building with eternally tried materials. But continue to do as your wish. The warnings are obviously for others.

Yet another complete butchering of the Biblical text in 1 Cor 3 as expected coming from you with conflating the baptism of the spirit by fire and the fire mentioned in the judgement seat of Christ for believers.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Lizbeth]

I don’t think (to me) it complicates the Gospel, but helps. I find encouragement and comfort in it. instead the message of Christ (Imo) reveals complications of tightly held doctrines of men. For us to see what we have refused to see. Or not wanted to see to hold on to …not having to go back to the beginning and begin again. Frustrating not the Gospel but our opinions. It is merciful I think, for him to deliver us from our delusions.

You said: “Why would God give a warning where hope is needed, or instill hope where warning is needed.” Agree. He does this. Or do you mean He doesn’t because if that is the case…parables?

You said “There are different purposes for different passages.”
Agree but in the same passages …one may see hope. One may see a warning of destruction. Should we douse the Hope in favor of only seeing destruction in the passages? What if one needs Hope?

Let's not overthink things. And let's hope we are only seeing what God wants us to see and knows that we need to see, in any given passage. Because the passage itself tells us what God is intending by it, whether encouragement or rebuke or warning.

(Just for an aside, speaking of hope, scripture teaches that there is no hope for the wicked, unless they repent. The fire of judgment at the end snuffs out their candle, they have no hope of posterity. It's the end of the road for the unrepentant. An unfortunate fact of life that grownups should be able to accept. And what will happen to those who teach a false hope....not going to end well for them either.)

 

[amigo de christo]

@Episkopos @VictoryinJesus how can we destroy a passage of scripture so bad. That we can not comprehend what it says.

1 cor 3: For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

1. The foundation is Christ. Not ones works. Or what one gives up
2. In our lives, as children of God. We build on this foundation, Gold silver precious stone, or Wood hay and straw
3. Everyones works WILL become clear. Because that DAY ( a future day) Will declare it, because IT (their works) will be revealed by fire., that fire will TEST everyones works.
4. IN THAT DAY, If our work endured. We will recieve reward (Gold silver precious stone
5. But in that day, if it is burned (wood hay and straw( he will suffer loss IN THAT DAY, But HE HIMSELF WILL STILL BE SAVED (eternally) Even as though through fire.

The work we do to BUILD on the foundation, will endure forever.

the work we do that does not build on that foundation will be burned..and we will suffer loss

but no matter what. We will be saved.

This is not indoctrination. This is just taking the passage for what it says. And not trying to read into it something that is not there

There is no baptism of fire n this passage./ This fire will be quenched. It is not eternal..

No one is building on the foundation of Christ if said person dont even believe one must believe on him .
THEY building on another entirely false foundation .

 

[amigo de christo]

This is a strawman...or it is based on a lack of reading skills. No one is saying that the foundation isn't Christ. The bible describes how we are to build on that foundation.


You are confusing a future judgment and what we are to do now to be assured of a better outcome on that day. This is about wisdom. I don't expect many to get that.


He will suffer loss if his works are burned up. There will be a downgrading of a person's salvation by either being sent into the nations or else being cast away into outer darkness.


It depends HOW we build. You are not reading at a high enough level to understand the meaning of the text.


This is plainly a bad reading. You are doing the usual dance around the narrative. We are to be careful HOW we build. The flesh wants a guarantee that EVERY work will be accepted. But God doesn't respect the ego aspirations of "believers."


Some to honour, and glory and others to dishonour, and shame.


That's all you are seemingly able to do. There are reading upgrades available online. But you will have to want to be honest in your reading.

The baptism of fire is what ensures that we are building with eternally tried materials. But continue to do as your wish. The warnings are obviously for others.

YOUR FOUNDATION AINT JESUS CHRIST EPI . its the SOCIAL GOSPEL LIE .
SO stop pretending . You dont even believe muslims and buddists and etc have to believe n HIM .
SO stop trying to decieve folks . You do not follow Christ , you do not know Him and i
will be here by GODS eternal grace to expose ya till YOU DO repent .