The answer of hell and its origins

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Jack said,
Again you evade the Scripture. Luke 24 a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have."[/QUOTE\]

No Jack I didn't evade it you must have missed it. I said in post #1360:

"For 40 days after his resurrection Jesus appeared to his disciples on different occasions in various fleshly bodies, just as angels had appeared to men of ancient times. Like those angels, he had the power to construct and to disintegrate those fleshly bodies at will, for the purpose of proving visibly that he had been resurrected."

 

[Jack]

Jack said,
Again you evade the Scripture. Luke 24 a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have."[/QUOTE\]

No Jack I didn't evade it you must have missed it. I said in post #1360:

"For 40 days after his resurrection Jesus appeared to his disciples on different occasions in various fleshly bodies, just as angels had appeared to men of ancient times. Like those angels, he had the power to construct and to disintegrate those fleshly bodies at will, for the purpose of proving visibly that he had been resurrected."

You have evaded several simple questions I have asked you more than once. Very, very suspicious indeed!

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

You have evaded several simple questions I have asked you more than once. Very, very suspicious indeed!

People can think what they want I don't care what they think of me. I believe you're someone who will not believe the truth just as you do with me. You and I will disagree on many subjects concerning the scriptures. I don't let what a person thinks of me change my mind about the truth that's in the scriptures no matter how much anyone else thinks what I say the truth is concerning the scriptures isn't the truth in the scriptures. You haven't said anything that has convinced me that what you have said is the truth concerning the scriptures

 

[Jack]

People can think what they want I don't care what they think of me. I believe you're someone who will not believe the truth just as you do with me. You and I will disagree on many subjects concerning the scriptures. I don't let what a person thinks of me change my mind about the truth that's in the scriptures no matter how much anyone else thinks what I say the truth is concerning the scriptures isn't the truth in the scriptures. You haven't said anything that has convinced me that what you have said is the truth concerning the scriptures

Did Kingdom Hall command you to avoid answering questions? Oh I almost forgot, you don't answer questions.

 

[Space_Karen]

Allow me to quote from Thomas Hobbes who uses some colorful language in describing hell.

The fire prepared for the wicked is an Everlasting Fire:

Hell is only temporary in the islam faith.

Making for an interesting contrast.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Did Kingdom Hall command you to avoid answering questions? Oh I almost forgot, you don't answer questions.

The kingdom hall doesn't command me just like you don't command me. The only time you think a person is truly thinking on his own is when that person is blindly following you or blindly agreeing with you.

 

[Patrick1966]

Hell is only temporary in the islam faith.

If Hell is permanent for Christians, then 1 Timothy 4:10 is false.

1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.

 

[Patrick1966]

Oh I almost forgot, you don't answer questions.

Let's love one another.

 

[Jack]

The kingdom hall doesn't command me just like you don't command me.

Then why won't you answer questions about Kingdom Hall?

The only time you think a person is truly thinking on his own is when that person is blindly following you or blindly agreeing with you.

That's a lie!

What Kingdom Hall didn't tell you:
Revelation 21:8 All liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

 

[Jack]

Let's love one another.

Christians defend the Bible. That's love! Telling people that there is no eternal Hell fire is not love! That's what Satan wants us to believe.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Christians defend the Bible. That's love! Telling people that there is no eternal Hell fire is not love! That's what Satan wants us to believe.

Telling people that there is no literal fires of gehenna (Hellfire) is showing love, because it is defending the Bible. It's showing love first for the only true God first and foremost, by speaking the truth about him and teaching people the truth that human beings are Souls, not that they have Souls. So human beings don't have a Soul that separates at death and literally goes to some literal place. The fires of gehenna (Hellfire) in the scriptures always has represented an eternal condition, not a literal place. So like the lake of fire which is the second death, those that are symbolically thrown into the fires of gehenna (Hellfire) are never awakened from their sleep of death, so they are forever nonexistent as living persons.
Those that don't believe you stop existing as a living person because they believe and teach human beings have immortal Souls that separates at death and so continues living in another form, in another plain of existence are calling the true God a liar, because they believe a person continues to exist as a living person, even though God said a person does die. These are the ones who are not showing love for the true God, because they're calling the true God a liar and saying the serpent in the garden of Eden was telling the truth that a person doesn't die.
It was those of false religion who believed human beings have immortal Souls and that at death this immortal Soul separated from the human body and went either to a place of eternal punishment or to a place of eternal paradise. Those that were Christians in name only borrowed from false religion and combined their false ideas to Gods truth. However the true God has never approved of taking what belongs to demons and combining what demons teach with his truth. The true God YHWH and his truth have nothing in common with demons. So you can't take what belongs to demons and combine it with the true God and his truth.

 

[Jack]

Telling people that there is no literal fires of gehenna (Hellfire) is showing love, because it is defending the Bible. It's showing love first for the only true God first and foremost, by speaking the truth about him and teaching people the truth that human beings are Souls, not that they have Souls. So human beings don't have a Soul that separates at death and literally goes to some literal place. The fires of gehenna (Hellfire) in the scriptures always has represented an eternal condition, not a literal place. So like the lake of fire which is the second death, those that are symbolically thrown into the fires of gehenna (Hellfire) are never awakened from their sleep of death, so they are forever nonexistent as living persons.
Those that don't believe you stop existing as a living person because they believe and teach human beings have immortal Souls that separates at death and so continues living in another form, in another plain of existence are calling the true God a liar, because they believe a person continues to exist as a living person, even though God said a person does die. These are the ones who are not showing love for the true God, because they're calling the true God a liar and saying the serpent in the garden of Eden was telling the truth that a person doesn't die.
It was those of false religion who believed human beings have immortal Souls and that at death this immortal Soul separated from the human body and went either to a place of eternal punishment or to a place of eternal paradise. Those that were Christians in name only borrowed from false religion and combined their false ideas to Gods truth. However the true God has never approved of taking what belongs to demons and combining what demons teach with his truth. The true God YHWH and his truth have nothing in common with demons. So you can't take what belongs to demons and combine it with the true God and his truth.

Let's see, if you're wrong you are leading people to Hell fire "forever and ever".

Matthew 18
8 If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire.
9 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Let's see, if you're wrong you are leading people to Hell fire "forever and ever".

Matthew 18
8 If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire.
9 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.

Anyone with any common sense or more importantly who truly believes in a God of Love knows that Jesus was using hyperbole here. He was obviously not encouraging self-mutilation or implying that a person was somehow subservient to the will of his limbs or eyes. He meant that a person should deaden a body member, or treat it as if it were severed from the body, rather than use it to commit a sin. (Colossians 3:5.) A person should allow nothing to hinder him from gaining life.
So just as Jesus was not literally telling people to literally cut off their hand or foot or to literally pluck out his/her eye Jesus was not talking about literal fire.

 

[face2face]

Anyone with any common sense or more importantly who truly believes in a God of Love knows that Jesus was using hyperbole here. He was obviously not encouraging self-mutilation or implying that a person was somehow subservient to the will of his limbs or eyes. He meant that a person should deaden a body member, or treat it as if it were severed from the body, rather than use it to commit a sin. (Colossians 3:5.) A person should allow nothing to hinder him from gaining life.
So just as Jesus was not literally telling people to literally cut off their hand or foot or to literally pluck out his/her eye Jesus was not talking about literal fire.

Wow I'm away for a few months and Jack is still up to his old tricks...one sentence meaningless statements and Barney why do you persevere? Liked your reply though...you see the Spirit of the Word and not the Letter like Jack!

 

[Jack]

Anyone with any common sense or more importantly who truly believes in a God of Love knows that Jesus was using hyperbole here. He was obviously not encouraging self-mutilation or implying that a person was somehow subservient to the will of his limbs or eyes. He meant that a person should deaden a body member, or treat it as if it were severed from the body, rather than use it to commit a sin. (Colossians 3:5.) A person should allow nothing to hinder him from gaining life.
So just as Jesus was not literally telling people to literally cut off their hand or foot or to literally pluck out his/her eye Jesus was not talking about literal fire.

You're TWISTING what Jesus said. He was clearly telling us how TERRIBLE it will be for those who burn in Hell "forever and ever". Whoever leads people to that terrible place will be there with them! How long ago did Kingdom Hall convince you that there is no "everlasting fire"? Forty years? Again, Luke 16 in YOUR NWT says you're wrong. Every English translation I know of says you're wrong. Hyperbole and symbolic are two of Kingdom Hall's favorite words when they don't like what God said!

NWT Luke 16 “Also, the rich man died and was buried. 23 And in the Grave he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and he saw Abraham from afar and Lazʹa·rus by his side. 24 So he called and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazʹa·rus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this blazing fire.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you had your fill of good things in your lifetime, but Lazʹa·rus for his part received bad things. Now, however, he is being comforted here, but you are in anguish. 26 And besides all these things, a great chasm has been fixed between us and you, so that those who want to go over from here to you cannot,

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

You're TWISTING what Jesus said. He was clearly telling us how TERRIBLE it will be for those who burn in Hell "forever and ever". Whoever leads people to that terrible place will be there with them! How long ago did Kingdom Hall convince you that there is no "everlasting fire"? Forty years? Again, Luke 16 in YOUR NWT says you're wrong. Every English translation I know of says you're wrong. Hyperbole and symbolic are two of Kingdom Hall's favorite words when they don't like what God said!

NWT Luke 16 “Also, the rich man died and was buried. 23 And in the Grave he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and he saw Abraham from afar and Lazʹa·rus by his side. 24 So he called and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazʹa·rus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this blazing fire.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you had your fill of good things in your lifetime, but Lazʹa·rus for his part received bad things. Now, however, he is being comforted here, but you are in anguish. 26 And besides all these things, a great chasm has been fixed between us and you, so that those who want to go over from here to you cannot,

I'm not twisting anything. I know for a fact that Jesus wasn't telling people to literally cut off a foot or hand or to literally pluck out their eye. If you're saying that a person should take what Jesus said literally and they were to literally cut off their hand or foot or to literally pluck out their eye, that's your choice. But I know for a fact Jesus wasn't encouraging people to literally mutilate themselves. A person who takes what Jesus said literally are teaching people that Jesus did encourage self multilation, and I'm going to disagree with that.
In the scriptures everlasting fire is to be taken as meaning eternally destroyed as a living person.
Most people are teaching that there is actually no real death when they teach people that human beings go on living because they have been taught that human beings have immortal souls. Such people have been deceived into believing human beings have souls instead of believing the truth in the scriptures which teach human beings are souls. Today many believe as do those of false religion that human beings have immortal souls so they believe and teach as do those of false religion teach that a person continues living in another plain of existence at death. They're teaching as those of false religion have taught in the past, that death is just a doorway to another plain of existence, so they don't teach that a person truly dies, instead they teach that a person continues living when someone dies.

 

[Jack]

I'm not twisting anything. I know for a fact that Jesus wasn't telling people to literally cut off a foot or hand or to literally pluck out their eye. If you're saying that a person should take what Jesus said literally and they were to literally cut off their hand or foot or to literally pluck out their eye, that's your choice. But I know for a fact Jesus wasn't encouraging people to literally mutilate themselves. A person who takes what Jesus said literally are teaching people that Jesus did encourage self multilation, and I'm going to disagree with that.

That's your Fairy Tale, not mine. I never said any such thing.

In the scriptures everlasting fire is to be taken as meaning eternally destroyed as a living person.

No it does not! You're preaching Kingdom Hall doctrine, not Bible.

Rev 20 "They will be tormented day and night FOREVER and EVER"!

Most people are teaching that there is actually no real death when they teach people that human beings go on living because they have been taught that human beings have immortal souls. Such people have been deceived into believing human beings have souls instead of believing the truth in the scriptures which teach human beings are souls. Today many believe as do those of false religion that human beings have immortal souls so they believe and teach as do those of false religion teach that a person continues living in another plain of existence at death. They're teaching as those of false religion have taught in the past, that death is just a doorway to another plain of existence, so they don't teach that a person truly dies, instead they teach that a person continues living when someone dies.

Hell will be filled with people who don't believe in Hell! "Death" never means "cease to exist" in the Bible. I read where someone described Kingdom Hall, "Hallway to Hell".

 

[The Learner]

So God created Jesus twice? How ridiculous! Jesus has ALWAYS existed. Your own NWT says you're wrong.

NWT John 20 Thomas said to Jesus "My Lord and my God"!

List of 300 Old Testament quotes in New Testament

1. The organization of the Old Testament quotes in the New Testament below is the only one of its kind!

a. It quotes from the New Testament (NET Bible)

b. Then source quotes from two Old Testament Parallels: the exact text from Codex Vaticanus (LXX) and the JPS Jewish Bible. (MT)

2. Notes about different chapter and verse numbering:

a. Chapter and verse numbering are often different in Christian Bible’s, the Septuagint and the Jewish Bible.

b. The difference may be that the chapter is higher or lower by one: Psalms 90:11 in one may be Psalms 91:11 in another.

c. The difference may be one or two verses higher or lower: Deut 54:12 may be

d. The difference may be before or after a chapter divider: Joel 2:28–32 in one book is Joel 3:1-5 in another

e. The references may be randomly different: Jeremiah 38:15 in one may be Jeremiah 31:15. Jeremiah wrote two different inspired versions of the book of Jeremiah like the synoptic Gospels. The LXX and the Masoretic represent the two different inspired versions where material is almost the same but organized in completely different ways.

3. Finding specific verses or books or quotes:

a. You can search for any Bible reference by hitting the CONTROL + F key in your internet browser.

4. Multiple New Testament quotations of one Old Testament verse:

a. For example “You are my Son, today I have begotten you” is quoted form Psalms 2:7 in 4 different places in the New Testament: Acts 13:33; Hebrews 1:5; 5:5 from Psalm 2:7.

b. All four are found in the first chronological book to reduce redundancy and condense the work.

5. About the New English Translation Bible (NET Bible).

a. Go to www.bible.org and download your free copy.

b. The NET is a new transition highly recommended by the author because it incorporates high detail into the text of the entire Bible, textual manuscript information.

c. The NET Bible is a completely new translation of the Bible with 60,932 translators’ notes! It was completed by more than 25 scholars – experts in the original biblical languages – who worked directly from the best currently available Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek texts. Turn the pages and see the breadth of the translators’ notes, documenting their decisions and choices as they worked. The translators’ notes make the original languages far more accessible, allowing you to look over the translator’s shoulder at the very process of translation. This level of documentation is a first for a Bible translation, making transparent the textual basis and the rationale for key renderings (including major interpretive options and alternative translations). This unparalleled level of detail helps connect people to the Bible in the original languages in a way never before possible without years of study of Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. It unlocks the riches of the Bible’s truth from entirely new perspectives. Produced for ministry, Our ministry, bible.org, was created to be a source of trustworthy Bible study resources for the world, so that everyone is guaranteed free access to these high quality materials. In the second year of bible.org’s ministry (1995) it became clear that a free online Bible would be needed on the bible.org website since copyrighted Bibles can’t be quoted in a huge collection of online studies. The NET Bible project was commissioned to create a faithful Bible translation that could be placed on the Internet, downloaded for free, and used around the world for ministry. The Bible is God’s gift to humanity – it should be free.

 

[The Learner]

Way too much to post, well worth reading

List of 300 Old Testament quotes in New Testament

 

[The Learner]

1 Peter 3:18 says, "For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison"

The New English Bible of 1961 translates 1 Peter 3:18: “For Christ also died for our sins once for all. He, the just, suffered for the unjust, to bring us to God. In the body he was put to death; in the spirit he was brought to life. And in the spirit he went and made his proclamation to the imprisoned spirits.” Other modern translations of 1 Peter 3: 18, 19 read similarly.

Regarding 1 Peter 3:18 is a Greek text, and the words “flesh” and “spirit” are put in contrast to each other, and both are in the dative case; so, if a translator uses the rendering “by the spirit” he should also consistently say “by the flesh,” or if he uses “in the flesh” he should also say “in the spirit.”) So saying at 1 Peter 3:18 that Jesus was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit is an accurate translation and shows us that Jesus was resurrected with a spirit body and in this spirit body he went and preached to the spirits in prison.

So, the apostle Peter says regarding Jesus’ resurrection, “in the spirit he was brought to life.” This explains why on the resurrection morning when God’s angel rolled the stone from the door of the tomb the soldier guards did not see Jesus rise from the dead and come out, although they did see the materialized angel. (Matthew 28:1-4) This explains why, when the resurrected Jesus met two disciples walking that day to Emmaus and went along with them and started to take supper with them, they did not know him until he began to serve the bread; and then he disappeared.(Luke 24:13-35)

This explains why, when the apostles and other disciples were met together in Jerusalem behind closed doors for fear of the fanatical Jews, Jesus must have come right through the walls. For he amazingly stood right in among them, and, after eating and talking with them, he vanished from them, but not through any unbolted door. (Luke 24:36-44; John 20:19-24) Of course, for Jesus, who had been brought to life in the spirit, to make himself visible to his disciples, he had to materialize on each occasion a body of flesh and bones. Jesus himself then said: “A spirit does not have flesh and bones just as you behold that I have.” Since the flesh-and-bones disciples could not see what was not flesh and bones, they could not see a spirit and they could not see the resurrected Jesus, who was “in the spirit.”

Humans with flesh-and-blood bodies cannot live in heaven. Of the resurrection to heavenly life, the Bible says: “It is sown a physical body, it is raised up a spiritual body. . . . flesh and blood cannot inherit God's kingdom" (1 Corinthians 15:44-50) Only spirit persons with spiritual bodies can live in heaven.

Honestly, that makes no sense to me friend. Peter was not talking about Our Lord's Resurrection. It was about between his death and Resurrection.