How are we to reckon ourselves as being dead to sin?

[Eternally Grateful]

The born again have already entered into : "In Christ".

The born again are already "seated in heavenly places".

The born again are already "one with God".

So, their FAITH has already been accepted.
The born again have already received "The Gift of Salvation" and have already passed from death to life".

The born again already have eternal life., having already become a "Son/Daughter" of God.

He is still trying to earn his way to heaven, He does not understand what being a member of the house of God means.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You still didn’t answer the questions. Is God merciful to the ungrateful also? Does God salute only those who salute Him? Does God only love those who love Him?

As I stated earlier to Epi. there is a saved state (child) or non saved state (non child)

there is no inbetween

I wouldn’t disagree that “there is a saved state (child) or non saved (non child)”

That which is born of flesh is flesh
That which is born of Spirit is Spirit.
You pointed out there is no in-between flesh and Spirit? Agree again that a double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

 

[Behold]

He is still trying to earn his way to heaven, He does not understand what being a member of the house of God means.

John Calvin had the same issue.
Calvin could not understand Grace, did not accept the Cross as Given : John 3:16-17

2 Corinthians 5:19

Calvinism destroys a person's free will ability to have real faith in Christ, because Calvin trained his disciples to see Salvation as THEIR work in progress, instead of believing that Jesus is Their Salvation and Eternal life. = "the GIFT of Salvation"

"Grace through faith, without works or deeds of the law".

Jesus said..."if i be lifted up, (on the Cross) i will draw ALL to me".

Calvin said..."um no, you're wrong Jesus, let me show you how to teach my devil's doctrine.= .."pre-destined elect", so that you can understand your Cross'"

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You still didn’t answer the questions. Is God merciful to the ungrateful also? Does God salute only those who salute Him? Does God only love those who love Him?

I wouldn’t disagree that “there is a saved state (child) or non saved (non child)”

That which is born of flesh is flesh
That which is born of Spirit is Spirit.
You pointed out there is no in-between flesh and Spirit? Agree again that a double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Consider also there is no in-between: choosing death or choosing Life.

But that isn’t what I was taught in the church building but instead “I’m just a sinner saved by Grace.” And also faith is in his death, not Faith is in His Life. Same as a narrative that is dead, has no Life in it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You still didn’t answer the questions. Is God merciful to the ungrateful also? Does God salute only those who salute Him? Does God only love those who love Him?

God saved us while we were yet sinners. No one loves God or even has the capacity to love God until they are saved. They can claim they love God. But they have n capacity to love God. We love BECAUSE he first loved us

I wouldn’t disagree that “there is a saved state (child) or non saved (non child)”

That which is born of flesh is flesh
That which is born of Spirit is Spirit.
You pointed out there is no in-between flesh and Spirit? Agree again that a double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

everyone is born of the flesh

Only those born of the spirit are saved.

If we are saved, We have gods mercy

if we have not yet been born again, We are under Gods judgment, and will remain their forever unless we are born again.

 

[Johann]

Yes indeed let all look to the word and from that we test all . LET ALL that has breath both praise and thank the LORD .

1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.



1) "Beloved, believe not every spirit " (Greek agapetoi) "beloved ones", an affectionate address to all ages of believers. (pisteuete) trust ye-(me) not. (Greek panti pneumati) (just) any or every spirit. John warns that some spirits should not (must not) be trusted. There are "seducing spirits", 1Ti_4:1.

2) "But try the spirits" (Alla) but, strong contrast - (Greek dokimozete) "test ye or prove ye," the spirits. Put the spirits on trial, on examination; Do they speak and cause men to act according to the revealed Word of God? If not they are to be rejected as emissaries, servants, agents of Satan. 1Ti_4:1-3; 2Ti_4:3-4; 2Co_11:13-15.

3) "Whether they are of God": Fallen, deranged, demon spirits - enemies of God, work through men - depraved men, to oppose God and Holiness. Note the maniac of Gadara, Mar_5:1-20; Mar_7:24-30, and deceptive miracle workers. Rev_16:13-14.

4) "Because many false prophets are gone out into the world." 1) Our Lord warned of "false" or lying prophets. Mat_7:15-23; Matthew 2) Paul did, 2Co_11:13-15; Act_20:27-31; Acts 3) Peter did, 2Pe_2:1-3; 2Pe_3:1-7. These false prophets have (Greek ekseleluthasin) "Gone out of their own accord -, or will". They were not (Greek stello) sent or authorized of the Lord.

Amen @amigo de christo keep on preaching Christ!

Beloved (as in 1Jn_2:28 and 1Jn_3:18, the apostle again breaks out with a personal appeal into an earnest exhortation suggested by the statement just made), prove the spirits δοκιμάζετε τὰ πνεύματα. "The spirits" are principles and tendencies in religion: these need to be tested, for earnestness and fervour are no guarantee of truth.

And to test these principles is the duty of the individual Christian as well as of the Church in its official capacity. Just as every Athenian was subjected to an examination δοκιμασία as to his origin and character before he could hold office, so the spirit of every religious teacher must be examined before his teaching can be accepted.

This is no useless precaution; because, as Christ has come forth ἐχελήλυθε from God (Joh_16:28; comp. Joh_8:42; Joh_13:3; Joh_16:27), ninny false prophets have come forth ἐζεληύθασι from the spirit of error. But perhaps "have gone forth into the world" means no more than ’’ have displayed themselves" in publicum prodierunt. There is probably no reference to the false teachers having "gone forth from us" (1Jn_2:19). Besides Cerinthus and other Gnostics, there were the Nicolaitanes, astrologers, professors of magic, and dealers in charms, some of which seem to have had their origin in Ephesus, for they were known as "Ephesian letters." Apollonius of Tyana was eagerly welcomed at Ephesus, and it is not impossible that his visit took place during St. John’s lifetime.

Even in Old Testament times men realized the perils of false prophets who were men of spiritual power. Deu_13:1-5 demands that the false prophet who sought to lure men away from the true God should be put to death; but it frankly and freely admits that he may promise signs and wonders and perform them. The spiritual power is there, but it is evil and misdirected.


1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1Jn 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Consider also there is no in-between: choosing death or choosing Life.

But that isn’t what I was taught in the church building but instead “I’m just a sinner saved by Grace.”

A sinner who is saved by grace admits that he is not perfect. Admits that he has failed to meet Gods standard. Admits that apart from Gods grace he would be lost with no hope

Its called becoming poor in spirit

A person who is humble and is grateful for being saved inspite of his wn sin. Is the person who will learn to walk as jesus walked. Because they seek after spiritual things, and not always trying to seek after themself.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

A sinner who is saved by grace admits that he is not perfect. Admits that he has failed to meet Gods standard. Admits that apart from Gods grace he would be lost with no hope

Its called becoming poor in spirit

A person who is humble and is grateful for being saved inspite of his wn sin. Is the person who will learn to walk as jesus walked. Because they seek after spiritual things, and not always trying to seek after themself.

I get it but there is also a such thing as false humility.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I get it but there is also a such thing as false humility.

For example the question someone asked earlier of what if I make things up and never speak of myself. Going around all the time with a long face saying how I’m just a sinner saved by Grace …(imo) is not humility. What Paul spoke of where he said he feared God would humble him in their midst where he would wail for those who sinned and had not repented yet…that is humility (Imo). That isn’t the church building today but instead fist bumping that we don’t need to wail…only that one over there who doesn’t understand God’s wrath. He is the one that needs to wail. Not us.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I get it but there is also a such thing as false humility.

I agree,

But false humility does not make the one who has true humility in error or unsaved.

Just because someone says they believe in Jesus does not make them a child of God.

Thats why jesus said one must be poor in spirit to enter the kingdom.

The word poor there in the gree is not poor like in no income, It means literally bankrupt. Homeless, Nothing to offer. So deep in debt you can not pay your debts no matter how hard you try

it takes that much humility to come to true saving faith.

A person who thinks they are not really that Bod and can be ok if they do good things. Have not become poor in spirit..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

For example the question someone asked earlier of what if I make things up and never speak of myself. Going around all the time with a long face saying how I’m just a sinner saved by Grace …(imo) is not humility. What Paul spoke of where he said he feared God would humble him in their midst where he would wail for those who sinned and had not repented yet…that is humility (Imo). That isn’t the church building today but instead fist bumping that we don’t need to wail…only that one over there who doesn’t understand God’s wrath. He is the one that needs to wail. Not us.

Paul said we are saved by grace through faith

Some people took that to mean I can believe in jesus and I am saved. Thats not true. Because that person never had true saving faith.. They may say they are a sinner saved by grace. but it does not make it a fact.

again, because someone CAN take things out of context. Does not mean that thing is in error.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

everyone is born of the flesh

Only those born of the spirit are saved.

Then you agree with Epi there IS a higher calling?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

LET ALL that has breath both praise and thank the LORD .

The ungrateful also for God is not a respecter of persons.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Then you agree with Epi there IS a higher calling?

No

Those save are born again into gods family. It’s not a higher calling it’s being born again into God family

The higher calling is for Gods children to respond to God as God sanctifies them in growing them from babes is Christ to spirtually mature adults

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The ungrateful also for God is not a respecter of persons.

He will not save a person who does not want it. And unless a person has true saving faith. They do not really want it. Because until then it is gods way plus my way. Not Gods way

 

[VictoryinJesus]

And unless a person has true saving faith

Not just faith that is dead, but Alive unto God?

Because until then it is gods way plus my way. Not Gods way

Somewhere in between. To me I think what my husband @Waiting on him asked makes more sense now; about carrying your cross up the hill to death. When do we come down off the hill?? Always traveling up….never coming down?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Not just faith that is dead, but Alive unto God?

there is no such things as a dead faith. It is lifeless.. Or mere belief

Somewhere in between. To me I think what my husband @Waiting on him asked makes more sense now; about carrying your cross up the hill to death. When do we come down off the hill?? Always traveling up….never coming down?

so do you have to carry your cross up that hill to be saved?

Carrying your cross is a state of seeking after the things of the spirit. of sacrificing your needs for everyone elses needs. doing this, we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. We will be lights in the world. and draw people to God. which is our goal..

Its not climbing a hill Because it is empowered by God. who has given us his spirit. Its walking the straight path.. while God is helping you. but you trust completely in him.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Its not climbing a hill Because it is empowered by God. who has given us his spirit. Its walking the straight path.. while God is helping you. but you trust completely in him

That is what confuses me. Unless I’ve misunderstood the word says since he died for all, then all were dead. In that he died, all were made dead in Him. I still say dying is easy, it is Living that seems impossible. Another member that keeps agreeing with what you say, said earlier it is faith in his death, but is it faith in his death or Faith in His life? Because in the OT to the NT is says Faith without His Life was yet dead, for He had not come yet?

You said there is no dead faith (did I understand correctly?)…then what does James talk about? Comparing it to: the body without the Spirit is dead? Again, NT if He is not alive and has not risen, then your faith is in vain still dead in the grave?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That is what confuses me. Unless I’ve misunderstood the word says since he died for all, then all were dead. In that he died, all were made dead in Him.

who are the all here? Context is everything

I still say dying is easy, it is Living that seems impossible. Another member that keeps agreeing with what you say, said earlier it is faith in his death, but is it faith in his death or Faith in His life? Because in the OT to the NT is says Faith without His Life was yet dead, for He had not come yet?

Its both

Faith in his death as our redeemer

Faith in his life as our sustainer

You said there is no dead faith (did I understand correctly?)…then what does James talk about? Comparing it to: the body without the Spirit is dead? Again, NT if He is not alive and has not risen, then your faith is in vain still dead in the grave?

James speaks of people who CLAIM to have faith.

He never said they had faith..

He said their CLAIMED faith was lifeless or dead. that's why it did not save and why there were no works.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

James speaks of people who CLAIM to have faith.

You just summed up where I was at after saying a little prayer. I told people all the time I had faith. I went to churches, trying to find a home. I kept getting re -save again and again. I even watched the left behind series just knowing one day… having no doubt I would be among those raptured out; because like I told everyone “I have faith in God”.

He never said they had faith..

A twist. God never said they were saved. That was the difference between my faith and others. Repeating the little prayer….because dang I keep being turned backwards.

He said their CLAIMED faith was lifeless or dead. that's why it did not save and why there were no works.

There were no works.
Just my mumbling about something that reassured me that I was one of the safe. And you are trying to convince me there is not such thing as dead faith still in the grave.