How are we to reckon ourselves as being dead to sin?

[Eternally Grateful]

The religious industrial complex...part of the entertainment industry..has done its job well. People are SO immune from the truth that sound doctrine can no longer be tolerated. The flesh has supressed the Spirit...the monkeys have taken over the zoo. Religious crows feed on death.

So we listen to you and you only?

If not. We are in error?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

we better never sin again. Because if we do. There is no payment

That’s right!

“…sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.” (John 5:14)

 

[Episkopos]

So we listen to you and you only?

If not. We are in error?

Be not hearers or readers of the word only...but doers.

I point to Christ...not myself...but the resurrected Christ. Don't confuse me with the religious egotists that mock the truth even as they gorge on the word to puff up the outer religious man. Some are now learning to change their approach...but they are still spiritually dead even if they adapt their dead ways....to make it sound better. Always "learning" but never coming to the knowledge of the truth. Christianity is not a dead religion of an afterlife. It is the power of the life to come....walked in these mortal bodies right now. We have this treasure in earthen vessels. (now)

Just because I know the truth and speak the truth doesn't mean I do it from ego. That's what egos assume about others...that everyone is as deceived and compromised as themselves. That's how judgment falls on the house of God to cut off those who walk in iniquity...accusing others of what they do themselves.

The crows here feed on death....not life. Always talk of Jesus on the cross...paying penalties or whatever...but NEVER speaking of the victorious life by the power of Christ's resurrection. That is reserved for the eagles...not the crows.

 

[Lizbeth]

Have you read the NT yet? Paul speaks of the high calling and winning Christ.

14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

You will not respond to this...but what is the verse speaking of? ( I ask rhetorically because I would be shocked at ANY honesty beyond a dogmatic rebuttal that is spoken in ignorance).

Hope this helps

Much love

Yes, true, but keep in mind Paul also says to not think we have already attained - he himself wasn't of the mind to think that he had. We are to keep pressing on for what lies ahead until we die. In other words, keep growing and apprehending more of Christ.

 

[Episkopos]

Yes, true, but keep in mind Paul also says to not think we have already attained - he himself wasn't of the mind to think that he had.

Paul said as many of us that are (presently) perfect...Check it out....he just didn't include himself in that number at THAT time. Saints go in and out of the Spirit.

Paul was not in the Spirit at the time he was writing that. The translation is done by religious men who have no understanding of the higher walk. So when Paul is speaking truthfully about his PRESENT condition he doesn't mean that he never walked in the higher walk.

I find the logic of some people to be so self-defeating. If Paul had never experienced resurrection life...then why are you listening to him? You are so used to listening to human opinion you think that's the same as a man who walked in Zion???

Because of a lack of spiritual experience and understanding, people WILL not understand what Paul is talking about.

We are to keep pressing on for what lies ahead until we die. In other words, keep growing and apprehending more of Christ.

That only happens in the higher walk. Otherwise people die in the futility of their own religious mind. One needs to grow in the environment of Zion to grow into Christ-likeness...otherwise its just a human righteous character that we see in poor countries all the time.

The irony is that poor people already have what deceived religious people think they are growing into as part of their "sanctification" process. I marvel at the wisdom of God and the foolishness of religious name and claimers.

Phil. 3:15 “Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.”

 

[Episkopos]

I ask for the crows to suspend their mischaracterizations, slander, false accusations and mockeries till I return from a fantastic bible study.

Thanks for your consideration.

 

[Lizbeth]

Paul said as many of us that are (presently) perfect...Check it out....he just didn't include himself in that number at THAT time. Saints go in and out of the Spirit.

Paul was not in the Spirit at the time he was writing that. The translation is done by religious men who have no understanding of the higher walk. So when Paul is speaking truthfully about his PRESENT condition he doesn't mean that he never walked in the higher walk.

I find the logic of some people to be so self-defeating. If Paul had never experienced resurrection life...then why are you listening to him? You are so used to listening to human opinion you think that's the same as a man who walked in Zion???

Because of a lack of spiritual experience and understanding, people WILL not understand what Paul is talking about.

That only happens in the higher walk. Otherwise people die in the futility of their own religious mind. One needs to grow in the environment of Zion to grow into Christ-likeness...otherwise its just a human righteous character that we see in poor countries all the time.

The irony is that poor people already have what deceived religious people think they are growing into as part of their "sanctification" process. I marvel at the wisdom of God and the foolishness of religious name and claimers.

Phil. 3:15 “Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.”

Yes I did notice that - he said as many as be perfect, be THUS minded... to be of the same mind as Paul.....to not consider that they had already attained. That is an attitude of humility, and also that we are to continue growing and running that race for the mark of the prize of the high calling until the end of our lives. We'll always be pressing on for what lies ahead.

I don't know whether holiness and spiritual experience are sometimes being conflated. Spiritual maturity and holiness is not a spiritual experience per se, which we can go in and out of according to the will of God and for His purposes, but maturity and holiness are permanent changes that are being wrought WITHIN the believer, within one's heart and character. (Permanent, because nobody can be young again once they have become old....not something a person goes in and out of) And this is through suffering, not through spiritual experiences, since suffering is the Way that God has chosen, the Way of the cross....the Captain of our salvation who was perfected through suffering is our example to follow.

I want to caution in general against seeking spiritual experiences, since that can open the door to the devil to deceive us. All we need to do is seek God Himself and His righteousness, and then whatever spiritual experiences we may have or not have are according to HIS will, not ours. Usually to strengthen and encourage I think, to give us a taste of heaven, to know that our suffering here in this life is not in vain. "Jesus, for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross." But always it's so important to test the spirits, because the devil counterfeits things of God.

 

[amigo de christo]

Oh, the simplicity! And, that's probably why they had the unity in the Spirit, and real power back then, double thumbs up!

Yes indeed , THAT IS TRUE SPIRITUAL UNITY . cause it was ALL CHRIST CENTERED .
todays unity that a lot are hollering for , IT AINT . And that is a big problem .

 

[amigo de christo]

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.

Galatians 6:14
But as for me, may I never boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world

Philippians 3:8-10
Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith— 10 that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,

Exactly . the problem today is , the version of unity and the gospel they do bring , AINT CHRIST centered at all .
Its reconcilation aint about the gospel of true peace that reconciles man to GOD by faith in Christ .
ITS reconcilation is about reconciling man to man , lets just come together and find common ground .
And that IS A HUGE MESS of a lie . Lambs unify with the reconciled to GOD . THERE is only one way
for a man to have peace and reconcilation to GOD , HIS NAME JESUS CHRIST . Today men focus on
good works BUT CAST OUT the dire need for CHRIST . AGAIN this is a massive lie and a deadly solution
that will not save them . OUR main and only mission is POINT TO JESUS CHRIST and to learn HIM and all sound doctrine well
and to exhort one another to continue to do so .
THEY are very crafty indeed , but by the Grace of the HOLY GOD and HIS CHRIST the lambs dont fall for it .
The message is real clear in this end hour message of unity , THEY want nothing to do with
those who cliam CHRIST as the only means to be saved . TO them this is dogmatic and
in the way of this finding common ground and unity for the world . But to us it is the ONLY MESSAGE that saves .
POINT to CHRIST till the last breath my friend .

 

[amigo de christo]

You claimed a couple posts earlier it was the gospel now you changed your mind again . Flip flopping like a fish out of water.

Caught that did ya my friend . Some preach another gospel , another Jesus .

 

[amigo de christo]

I don;t know what you are doing here, but I'm here to declare Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

You aint declaring Christ at all . Those who profess Christ dont get upset at folks who continually remind the people
to stay planted in FAITH IN CHRIST .
To you my reminders are in the way of the social gospel plan for what they think will lead them to world peace and safety
and unification of all . Religious dogmatism is what you called it .
Your gospel wont save souls my friend , cause it sees the true gospel as RELIGIOUS DOGMATISM .
The fundamental core truth of CHRIST and the gospel is seen as RELIGIOUS dogmatism to you .
As you holler on and on about this other gospel and this other jesus , which sure seems to contradict the Biblical version
of SAID JESUS .

 

[Episkopos]

Yes I did notice that - he said as many as be perfect, be THUS minded... to be of the same mind as Paul.....to not consider that they had already attained. That is an attitude of humility, and also that we are to continue growing and running that race for the mark of the prize of the high calling until the end of our lives. We'll always be pressing on for what lies ahead.

I have to say that you understand exactly half the truth. Most people understand a lot less than that. But you are forcing what goes on in the morning into the afternoon...not distinguishing between the two.

It's like you are always reliving the same 12 hours (I'll say AM as in ante mortem...or before being dead in Christ). You don't realize there is a whole other 12 hours PM (as in post mortem...or after you are dead and raised into the higher resurrection walk).

And that forces on you an understanding that is blind to deeper truth.

I'll use your above comments as an example. It says Paul was not perfect and that he had not attained....but he also says as many who are INDEED perfect...IOW greater than Paul...at least at that time. So you are missing Paul distinguishing between his own lack of perfection with the perfection of others. And you miss that fully and completely. Some HAD indeed attained. But to understand spiritual things one must be living in the afternoon or PM not speculating what people are doing in the PM by remaining in the AM.

So then you are reading a PM exhortation and trying to apply that to an AM understanding. But you are twisting the meaning of scripture to arrive there.

It's much better to not try lowering the PM walk into just more of an AM experience.

I don't know whether holiness and spiritual experience are sometimes being conflated.

Holiness IS experiencing the spiritual fellowship with God. I think you are conflating a quick spiritual experience with a spiritual realm that we walk in by the keeping power of God. Holiness is found in the kingdom realm by a continung spiritual walk in expereincing the resurrection of life Christ. We remain there until the POWER of grace is overcome by sin and the cares of this world.

I've explained this many times using my "fridge magnet" analogy.

Spiritual maturity and holiness is not a spiritual experience per se, which we can go in and out of according to the will of God and for His purposes, but maturity and holiness are permanent changes that are being wrought WITHIN the believer, one's heart and character.

Here you are conflating purity.....always a gift of God by grace through faith....with the maturity it takes to remain there.

(Permanent, because nobody can be young again once they have become old....not something a person goes in and out of)

That's maturity. However, one can easily go in and out of purity.

And this is through suffering, not through spiritual experiences, since suffering is the Way that God has chosen, the Way of the cross....the Captain of our salvation who was perfected through suffering is our example to follow.

Yes. On the lower level we suffer for our own sins. On the upper level we suffer for the sins of others...as Jesus did. The blessing of suffering for His name sake is on the upper floor. And that is ALWAYS at the hands of the religious crowd. They crucified Jesus and persecuted the disciples. And still do

I want to caution in general against seeking spiritual experiences, since that can open the door to the devil to deceive us. All we need to do is seek God Himself and His righteousness, and then whatever spiritual experiences we may have or not have are according to HIS will, not ours. Usually to strengthen and encourage I think, to give us a taste of heaven, to know that our suffering here in this life is not in vain. "Jesus, for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross." But always it's so important to test the spirits, because the devil counterfeits things of God.

Very true....and a good warning to the AM crowd. That's where you live..and you have it right here.

But you somehow need to pit the AM against the PM for whatever reason. You want to deny an upper floor to affirm that there's a first floor. Why can't you affirm....then move on? Instead you are doing a "groundhog day" repeat of the same 12 hour period over and over..thinking you are progressing that way... revisiting the same lessons over and over...and never getting at the truth. Always learning and NEVER coming into the knowledge of the truth. Having a form of godliness (AM) but denying the power thereof (made available in the PM)

There is time after the AM. There is a higher walk IN the Promised land. But just as Abram had to shoo away the crows that were attracted to the sacrifice meant for God...you will have to decide if you are part of that sacrifice or continue to hover over the sacrifice as a crow to be shooed away by the one offering the sacrifice. (Gen 15:11)

 

[Episkopos]

Caught that did ya my friend . Some preach another gospel , another Jesus .

I am only here to know Christ and Him crucified. Don't preach another gospel and another Jesus.

Go to the cross...don't just talk about it....do it.

 

[Lizbeth]

Yes I did notice that - he said as many as be perfect, be THUS minded... to be of the same mind as Paul.....to not consider that they had already attained. That is an attitude of humility, and also that we are to continue growing and running that race for the mark of the prize of the high calling until the end of our lives. We'll always be pressing on for what lies ahead.

I don't know whether holiness and spiritual experience are sometimes being conflated. Spiritual maturity and holiness is not a spiritual experience per se, which we can go in and out of according to the will of God and for His purposes, but maturity and holiness are permanent changes that are being wrought WITHIN the believer, within one's heart and character. (Permanent, because nobody can be young again once they have become old....not something a person goes in and out of) And this is through suffering, not through spiritual experiences, since suffering is the Way that God has chosen, the Way of the cross....the Captain of our salvation who was perfected through suffering is our example to follow.

I want to caution in general against seeking spiritual experiences, since that can open the door to the devil to deceive us. All we need to do is seek God Himself and His righteousness, and then whatever spiritual experiences we may have or not have are according to HIS will, not ours. Usually to strengthen and encourage I think, to give us a taste of heaven, to know that our suffering here in this life is not in vain. "Jesus, for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross." But always it's so important to test the spirits, because the devil counterfeits things of God.

In others words, this is the mind that the spiritually mature/perfect will have, @Episkopos. ie, a mind that does not consider that they have already attained.

 

[amigo de christo]

You are adding sophistication to Bible verses you think support your ideas…

Your self proclamation of being “the adult in the room” is pride at work.

ideas which support ....................the inclusive social gospel . exactly my friend .

 

[Episkopos]

You aint declaring Christ at all . Those who profess Christ dont get upset at folks who continually remind the people
to stay planted in FAITH IN CHRIST .

You are playing a game here to satisfy your religious ego. I am professing Christ..not just saying I am as you are doing. You know nothing of what you are trying to mimic...

To you my reminders are in the way of the social gospel plan for what they think will lead them to world peace and safety
and unification of all . Religious dogmatism is what you called it .
Your gospel wont save souls my friend , cause it sees the true gospel as RELIGIOUS DOGMATISM .

A false religious appreciation of the true gospel can't save you from sin. You need to go to God for real...to be crucified for real, and be raised into resurrection life for real. What you are missing in everything I say...and the bible verses you misunderstand...is the word "REAL"

Once you realize that religious sloganeering is dead...vanity....you MAYBE will start actually seeking the Lord.

The fundamental core truth of CHRIST and the gospel is seen as RELIGIOUS dogmatism to you .

The core of your posturing is dogmatism. You are confusing yourself with God and the bible. Learn the difference. Humble yourself and depart from iniquity.

GO to the cross. Pointing to the cross is fine as long as you aren't virtue signalling on how righteous and saved you are, and how others aren't based on being as indoctrinated as yourself.

God you ain't. The bible you ain't. Get over yourself.

As you holler on and on about this other gospel and this other jesus , which sure seems to contradict the Biblical version
of SAID JESUS .

God is alive and REAL. Go to Him...stop trusting your own imagination, indoctrination, and religious conditioning.

 

[amigo de christo]

The guy tells me to humble myself and yet procliams HE is the ADULT in the room .
Folks see your pride epi and the things you accuse us of , ye indeed are the one guilty of it .

 

[amigo de christo]

Epi , while i dont repsond to all your posts i do read what you say to others .
Ye behave as though YOU the PROPHET in the ROOM . but tell us to humble ourselves .
By humble i guess you mean SIT UNDER YOU . Hold not thy breath for that my friend .

 

[Episkopos]

In others words, this is the mind that the spiritually mature/perfect will have, @Episkopos. ie, a mind that does not consider that they have already attained.

You are conflating my maturity with a claim to be perfect. You can't take away from my experience and what I learned and what that has produced in me. I have not claimed to be perfect...your slander comes from defending the AM walk by your religious outer man who thrives in unbelief and rebellion against God and His ways...and His servants.

I went to the trouble of explaining what I'm seeing to help you go to God and pray for HIS confirmation. If you want to go around in circles for your remaining years...go ahead. Not many are going to walk with God. And you will have decided that that is not for you..as most will.

But I'm saying to you...you are misrepresenting the gospel. The lower walk is at an OT standard of growing and growing and studying and studying line upon line and precept upon precept...but without coming to the knowledge of the truth.

Always learning....

 

[Episkopos]

The guy tells me to humble myself and yet procliams HE is the ADULT in the room .
Folks see your pride epi and the things you accuse us of , ye indeed are the one guilty of it .

LOL! You think being an adult is from pride because you are still thinking as a child. As in...how dare you think you're grown up...there 's only us spoiled children here.

How old are you?

In a superficial religious world...no amount of age and experience mean anything at all.