What is the one true Church?

[Illuminator]

What happened to the Templars at the hands of “the one true church?” On Friday, October 13, 1307, the French rounded up thousands of Knights Templars and tortured them as heretics. Some believe the date of this massacre sparked our modern-day association of Friday the 13th with bad luck.

Knights Templar - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

they want us to look at history.. yet somehow they can look at their history with a straight face..

What makes you think we are not as appalled as you are? No one has ever denied the crazy things people did 1000+ years ago. But the whole story is seldom told. Digging up centuries old dirt just hurts peoples feelings.

YOU PEOPLE did this!!!

Oh yea? YOU PEOPLE did that!!

How about ALL OF US PEOPLE forge our swords into plow shares, forgive each other for the evil things BOTH our spiritual ancestors did. We should strive to make forums like a friendly cafe, not a bar room brawl. Let's all pray a minute before we post.
JP2 pleads:

1. Ut unum sint! The call for Christian unity made by the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council with such impassioned commitment is finding an ever greater echo in the hearts of believers,(US PEOPLE) especially as the Year 2000 approaches, a year which Christians will celebrate as a sacred Jubilee, the commemoration of the Incarnation of the Son of God, who became man in order to save humanity...​

​

2. No one is unaware of the challenge which all this poses to believers. (US PEOPLE) They cannot fail to meet this challenge. Indeed, how could they refuse to do everything possible, with God's help, to break down the walls of division and distrust, to overcome obstacles and prejudices which thwart the proclamation of the Gospel of salvation in the Cross of Jesus, the one Redeemer of man, of every individual?​

​

I thank the Lord that he has led us to make progress along the path of unity and communion between Christians, a path difficult but so full of joy. Interconfessional dialogues at the theological level have produced positive and tangible results: this encourages us to move forward.​

​

Nevertheless, besides the doctrinal differences needing to be resolved, Christians (US PEOPLE) cannot underestimate the burden of long-standing misgivings inherited from the past, and of mutual misunderstandings and prejudices. Complacency, indifference and insufficient knowledge of one another often make this situation worse. Consequently, the commitment to ecumenism must be based upon the conversion of hearts and upon prayer, which will also lead to the necessary purification of past memories.​

​

With the grace of the Holy Spirit, the Lord's disciples, inspired by love, by the power of the truth and by a sincere desire for mutual forgiveness and reconciliation, are called to re-examine together their painful past and the hurt which that past regrettably continues to provoke even today.​

​

All together, they (US PEOPLE) are invited by the ever fresh power of the Gospel to acknowledge with sincere and total objectivity the mistakes made and the contingent factors at work at the origins of their deplorable divisions. What is needed is a calm, clear-sighted and truthful vision of things, a vision enlivened by divine mercy and capable of freeing people's minds and of inspiring in everyone a renewed willingness, precisely with a view to proclaiming the Gospel to the men and women of every people and nation.​

source
It's an invitation, not a command. That's quite a big challenge for US PEOPLE, dontcha think?

 

[Brakelite]

@Brakelite
@Grailhunter

It all boils down to the Everlasting Invisible Heavenly Holy Lord God Almighty, the Creator and Maker....

The KNOWLEDGE revealed (per Gods Order and Way) for every individual to have access to the KNOWLEDGE...
To Freely Individually Choose to Believe it or Not...
and their end consequence shall be exacted...With or Without.

It is individual MEN, (for a multitude of individual reasons), Who become the “teachers” (with whatever Title they wear), all choosing their own “style, manner, way, they teach and do by their own example, and often a plethora of their own concocted “teaching” materials. (Books, pamphlets, diagrams, letters, notes, videos, doctrines, rituals, etc.), with the “intent” of convincing any listener to “follow them, their way”.... to “perfect acceptance of God”.

And certainly, Clout, plays a big part in convincing others to “follow them”...
Meaning if “many” ARE following them, by some magical inference, “THEY must be Right”.

Scandals, Political control, Underhanded backroom conniving, Denials, Secrets, Immorality, have plagued, Fractured, every Major (an Minor) man-establish Religious Organization...

Bottom line is SIMPLE...
Follow the Lord God Almighty;
He alone Reveals the HOW TO be WITH or WITHOUT Him;
He Established the “middle man” JESUS (for the corrupt man to Establish a relationship WITH God.)
Listen to His Knowledge;
Ask Him for His Understanding of His Knowledge;
Decide, Choose, Commit, or Reject...
SIMPLE....

(That has not one iota to do with what any other individual, teaches, does, does not do.)

Glory to God,
Taken

Sorry, but are you inferring that we ought not listen to any teacher or pastor? I agree that all must allow God to develop a relationship with us through Jesus, but Jesus appoints teachers and pastors and prophets for the education and maturing of the church. If they teach according to scripture, well. If not, find another.

 

[Taken]

Wanna bet??

AS I schooled you in my last post - "PRAY" simply means "ASK", "ENTREAT", "SUPPLICATE".
The primary definition has NOTHING to do with God. He only appears in the secondary definition . . .

Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary:
Full Definition of “PRAY”
transitive verb
1: ASK, entreat, implore —often used as a function word in introducing a question, request, or plea<pray be careful>

2: to get or bring by praying
intransitive verb
1: to make a request in a humble manner
2: to address God or a god with adoration, confession, supplication, or thanksgiving

I know you didn't - I did.
All YOU did was dodge the issue.

Rev. 5:8 shows the saints inj Heaven taking our prayers to God.
This is the very definition of intercession . . .

4 beasts and 24 Elders deliver the Prayers , which are Odors, OF the Saints to the Lamb.

And what are the names of the 24 elders and beasts that you pray TO?

 

[Webers_Home]

.

I was baptized a Catholic.

I was baptized an infant into the Catholic religion back in 1944, and in time
completed enough catechism for Holy Communion and Confirmation.

I was loyal to Rome for 24 years before discovering from someone outside
the Church that God had me in mind when His son went to the cross. Long
story short, not that long afterwards I knelt at the rail of a Protestant
church and prayed this simple, naïve prayer:

"God I know I'm a sinner. I would like to take advantage of your son's
death"

* If only the nuns had taught me to speak with God like that, they would've
spared me years of anxiety related to my afterlife prospects.

Anyway: God couldn't very well refuse my request; now could He.

● Rom 5:6-8 . . Christ died for the impious. Very rarely will anyone die for a
righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die.
But God demonstrates His own love for us in this: While we were still
sinners, Christ died for us.
_

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What makes you think we are not as appalled as you are? No one has ever denied the crazy things people did 1000+ years ago. But the whole story is seldom told. Digging up centuries old dirt just hurts peoples feelings.



View attachment 30425

If you were truly Gods church, and gods representatives on earth and appointed by God through christs representative on earth You would not have your history..Because if it was led by christ as you say/ then Christ would not allow the nonsense that went on..and the evil that went on.

 

[Philip James]

Jesus the Christ and no lie has ever come out of His Mouth, therefore i trust HIM at His word.

The question is = do you?

Indeed I do!

This is My Body , take and eat!
This is My Blood, take and drink!

He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me and I in him..

Dear David,

as long as one draws breath,

It is never to late to return to the wedding Feast of the Lamb of God!

Pax et Bonum

 

[Philip James]

ALL these things i walked in as a true Catholic for 23 years = yet i was not Born-Again by the Spirit of God

Of course you were. Your lack of Faith is appalling...

Pax et Bonum

 

[Illuminator]

.


I was baptized an infant into the Catholic religion back in 1944, and in time
completed enough catechism for Holy Communion and Confirmation.

You went through the motions like many dead Catholics. You judge the whole CC based on your deadness.

I was loyal to Rome for 24 years

Loyal doesn't mean conviction. Some Russians are loyal to Putin. How does one fall in love with Jesus when their mother drags them off to church when they would rather stay home and watch cartoons???

before discovering from someone outside
the Church that God had me in mind when His son went to the cross.

That doesn't prove Jesus was never inside the Church in the first place. It proves you didn't take advantage of so many things offered to you. Had you received the sacraments with proper intent and disposition, you would know without a doubt that God had you in mind when His son went to the cross. You didn't know because you were a dead Catholic.

Long
story short, not that long afterwards I knelt at the rail of a Protestant
church and prayed this simple, naïve prayer:

"God I know I'm a sinner. I would like to take advantage of your son's
death"

Somehow, you missed out on the same thing that's constantly taught. The essence of this simple, naïve prayer was in your face the whole time, and it's still there for anyone with the courage to look.

* If only the nuns had taught me to speak with God like that, they would've
spared me years of anxiety related to my afterlife prospects.

Most nuns are exemplary Christians, very few nuns have no business being nuns.

Anyway: God couldn't very well refuse my request; now could He.

Of course not, and the Church rejoices that you found Him, even if it's outside the walls of a CC. You haven't let go of a false caricature branded into your brain because your were dead for 24 years.

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[Ziggy]

God told Moses to make a tabernacle in the middle of the wilderness. And to build it accorfing to the image he saw in heaven.
In this tabernacle was the Ark of the Covenant, and upon the Ark was the Mercy Seat. And God was with the first church in the wilderness for 40 years.
I don't know how many other religioins were in the world at the time, or how many Temples there were.
We do know that Israel was drawn to them over and over again.

Some time later the people began to complain, We want a king like the other nations to lead us.
I believe it was Samuel that got upset, but God said, it's not that they have rejected you, but that they have rejected me.
So God had Samuel anoint Saul as King.

Because Saul disobeyed God.. I don't remember off the top of my head, David was put in his place.
David wanted to builf a House for God. Go told him His house was made without hands.
And David wouldn't qualify to build one anyways because he had too much bloodshed on his hands.

Solomon, David's son was the one who would build the House for God.
Solomon built his own house first. (think about that) The Temple of Solomon.
Have you ever read about the building of the Temple? The Cedars and the Gold and all the curtains and doors and windows and artistry.
It's pretty impressive.

This Temple got knocked down a couple times. But in the days of King Herod, it was rebuilt and it took what, 46 years in the rebuilding.
The Ark of the covenant was no longer in it. Somehow it got lost in a battle. The Mercy seat wasn't in it.

One day Jesus and his disciples are strolling through Jerusalem admiring the Temple of Solomon.
The story goes like this:
Mat 24:1
And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2
And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

And again:
Mar 13:1
And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!
Mar 13:2
And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Again:
Luk 19:41
And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
Luk 19:42
Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
Luk 19:43
For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
Luk 19:44
And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

And John:
Jhn 2:18
Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
Jhn 2:19
Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
Jhn 2:20
Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
Jhn 2:21
But he spake of the temple of his body.

Mar 14:58
We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.

Act 17:24
God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
Act 17:25
Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

Can someone tell me what the difference is between Solomon's Temple, The Vatican, The Chrystal Cathedral or the Dome of the Rock?
I believe their are other's like for the Hindi's and other nations.
And is the Russian Orthodox religion also Catholic?

Can you see a theme here?

The tabernacle that God told Moses to build in the wilderness was Jesus' body where the Mercy Seat was.
The Feast of tabernacles represnted our own temporal time on earth.

2Co 5:1
For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

It doesn't matter what we build with our own hands. How glorious, how pious, how grandeur... it is nothing but moth and rust compared to God's heavenly Temple.
And there is no King or Priest or Pope on this earth that can ever replace the rightful owner of those titles.
And that alone is Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, King of king and Lord of Lords. Our High Priest which intervenes on our behalf with his own blood he offered on the altar.

And as he told the Samaritan woman at the well: The Father wants us to worship Him in Spirit and in Truth.
Not in a mountain, nor in Jerusalem. But just where you are.

God Bless
Hugs

 

[Taken]

Sorry, but are you inferring that we ought not listen to any teacher or pastor? I agree that all must allow God to develop a relationship with us through Jesus, but Jesus appoints teachers and pastors and prophets for the education and maturing of the church. If they teach according to scripture, well. If not, find another.

Much is said… this guy, that guy was appointed … bishop, leader, blah, blah…thus you must listen and believe as he says…

You are the first to couple that with …
The IF what they teach is according to Gods Word…which was my point…of verification / validation…test everything you hear, with Scripture, that it be true.

Doesn’t seem to be a high priority.

 

[Taken]

RUN from the false teachings your men have taught you

HOW can baby's have the truth in their heart Taken when they have never heard the truth?

Think about it....Try again!

Your Carnal Mindedness wins again.
God is not stymied with wonderment. He knows every humans true thoughts….age irrelevant.

 

[David in NJ]

Of course you were. Your lack of Faith is appalling...

Pax et Bonum

faith in religion, especially RCC, is dead faith because it lies in the den of thieves

"Then Jesus said to them again, “Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly."

 

[Illuminator]

If you were truly Gods church, and gods representatives on earth and appointed by God through christs representative on earth You would not have your history..Because if it was led by christ as you say/ then Christ would nto allow the nonsense that went on..and the evil that went on.

If I refuse to insult you back, then we are done here.

 

[Taken]

Trespass:

maʻal, mah'-al; from H4603; treachery, i.e. sin:—falsehood, grievously, sore, transgression, trespass

Sin:

châṭâʼ, khaw-taw'; a primitive root; properly, to miss; hence (figuratively and generally) to sin; by inference, to forfeit, lack, expiate, repent, (causatively) lead astray, condemn:—bear the blame, cleanse, commit (sin), by fault, harm he hath done, loss, miss, (make) offend(-er), offer for sin, purge, purify (self), make reconciliation, (cause, make) sin(-ful, -ness), trespass.

Mat 18:21
Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Mat 18:22
Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

I agree if one sins against God, that's between him and God.
And if man sins against man that's between the men and God.
Forgive us our trespasses/sins as we forgive those who trespass/sin against us.

I personally have never prayed to a Saint. I have direct access to Jesus Himself.
Just sayin..
Hugs

Yes…and Peter was a Jew Familiar with Mosaic law.

Both Jews and Gentiles were learning something new. (And not like they were hearing daily, weekly Bible lessons. Picture those days of really how much an individual was actually hearing…scant. )

Jews had a history with God, Gentiles didn’t.
I would expect the Jews to speak the same terms as they had a 4,000 yr history.

Then listen to Jesus Preaching…
Believe, believe, believe…repent for having not believed. Become made converted. Be forgiven of your sin.
What sin? Disbelief in God.
The Law saved no one.

Sin is disbelief in God.
Only God remedies Sin.

I have zero obligation to believe in men.
I am not a Jew, nor under Mosaic Law.
My sin was Against God, not men.
No I do not sin against men, nor they against me. No I do not sin against God.
And Yes, it was God who forgave my sin against Him, and it is Gods Power IN me that keeps me from ever again standing against Him.

1 John 3:9

 

[Ziggy]

You're NOT part of the Ministerial Priesthood.
Time for a Bible Lesson . . .

In the Old Testament, there were three levels of Priests:
Aaron, the High Priest (Exod. 28:1), the Levitical/Ministerial Priesthood (Num,. 18:20-24), and the rest of the people were a general priesthood of believers (Exod. 19:6).

In the New Testament, there are also three levels of Priests: Jesus, our High Priest (1 Tim. 2:5, Heb. 7:22-25), the Ministerial Priests (James 5:14-15) and the general priesthood of all Christians (1 Peter 2:5-9).
Just as with all New Testament fulfillments, the fulfillment is always more glorious than the Old Testament type.

Finally, in the Epistle of Jude, we read the warning about those who would usurp Church Authority by assuming the ministerial priesthood without the Church’s consent (Jude 1:11). In this passage he compares them to the rebellion of Korah and their subsequent punishment (Numbers 16:1-35; 31:16).

In Rom. 15:15-16, Paul talks about this ministerial priestly duty referring to himself as priest (hee-er-oorg-eh'-o).

James Chapter 5.

 

[Ziggy]

Yes…and Peter was a Jew Familiar with Mosaic law.

Both Jews and Gentiles were learning something new. (And not like they were hearing daily, weekly Bible lessons. Picture those days of really how much an individual was actually hearing…scant. )

Jews had a history with God, Gentiles didn’t.
I would expect the Jews to speak the same terms as they had a 4,000 yr history.

Then listen to Jesus Preaching…
Believe, believe, believe…repent for having not believed. Become made converted. Be forgiven of your sin.
What sin? Disbelief in God.
The Law saved no one.

Sin is disbelief in God.
Only God remedies Sin.

I have zero obligation to believe in men.
I am not a Jew, nor under Mosaic Law.
My sin was Against God, not men.
No I do not sin against men, nor they against me. No I do not sin against God.
And Yes, it was God who forgave my sin against Him, and it is Gods Power IN me that keeps me from ever again standing against Him.

1 John 3:9

You are right, we are no longer UNDER the condemnation of the law.
There is a difference between being UNDER and walkin IN it.
Do you murder? No? Then you are not condemned by the law. You are keeping the law by not murdering.
Do you Lie? No? Then you are not condemned by the law for lying. You are keeping the law by by not lying.

I could go through all 10 but I think you hear what I'm saying.
Walking IN God's commandments IS the Law of Liberty.

When we walked according to the flesh, murdering, lying, stealing... we were UNDER the comdenation of the Law.
When we walk according to the Spirit, we don't hate in our heart, we don't lie and we don't steal. We are walking in the Law of Liberty.

And this is Grace, that if we do sin according to the law, we don't get stoned. We have an advocate Jesus Christ to confess our sins to,
and He is Meriful and Righteous to forgive us.

There is a difference between being UNDER and walking IN the Law,

Hugs

 

[Brakelite]

You should try some of this too......
“Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Matthew 5:48
“If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple. Luke 14:26

You are misinterpreting the scriptures to suite you and it does not fit reality.
God had the whole Old Testament to say.....IF YOU LOVE ME DON'T HAVE SEX. But that is not what He said.....
But He did say....
For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.
Most people miss "shall leave his father and mother" not can....not might....or if he wants to....Genesis 2:24
God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth..... Genesis 1:28
Notice He did not say "Pretty please will you be fruitful and multiply.....Thank you in advance.....smile smile" It is the only commandment that He repeats over and over again in the Old Testament. This attraction to celibacy is just as strange and unnatural as homosexualality.

This celibate thing you guys have going on in your head just does not workout and has caused some the greatest of sins and disgrace to the Church....we know because some people did interpret the scriptures like you do.....

Just because a guy decides to be celibate that does not reduce the sex drives and they are part of the survival instincts so it is going to happen more times than not. And in a male dominate religion when you put a restrictions on marriage and sex....women become the tempters......then they are linked to Satan.... then the Church starts stripping them and torturing them and burning them at the stake and making their children watch.

All the result of this perverted interpretations of scriptures it lead some Catholic Christian leaders to believe that marriage and sex was a sin and women were the evil tempter of good men.

Origen, St. Jerome, St. Augustine, St. Ambrose, and St. Thomas Aquinas, these men had very negative views towards women and taught that anything to do with sex was straight from Satan. Any type of sexuality, beauty, feelings, romance, love, or pleasure were the worst of sins, and celibacy, ugly, sorrow, suffering, and pain were Godly. Romanic love in itself was considered wrong. They believed marital sex was a sin even though they acknowledged that it was a necessity. An insane conundrum of logic. A man’s desire for his wife was considered lust and the only time marital sex should be performed was to have children and after that sex should stop. Origen actually castrated himself because he thought his penis was tempting him. Ouch! This is after a slue of sexual issues and his statements against the evils of women and sex.

Even though St. Jerome obviously preferred the company of women, (Because the company he kept and most of his followers were women.) He still had this to say about the status of women: “….it is contrary to the order of nature, or of law, that women should speak in the assembly of men……and man should be commanded to love his wife, whereas the wife should fear her husband.” and he also said “Nothing is so unclean as a woman in her periods; what she touches she causes to become unclean.” .....Written by St. Jerome

“Because Eve caused the fall of Man she and all women were cursed to painfully deliver children between urine and feces.” ....Written by St. Jerome

“He who ardently loves his own wife is an adulterer.” ....Written by St. Jerome

On the topic of sexual desire Augustine had this to say....“Who can control this when its appetite is aroused? No one! In the very movement of this appetite, then, it has no ‘mode’ that responds to the decisions of the will. But when those who delight in this pleasure are not moved to it at their own will, whether they confine themselves to lawful or transgress to a unlawful pleasures; but sometimes this lust importunes them in spite of themselves, and sometimes fails them when they desire to feel it, so that though lust rages in the mind, it stirs not in the body .....Written by St. Augustine

“This diabolical excitement of the genitals…” (As St. Augustine refers to the act of sex.) …is evidence of Adam’s original sin which is now transmitted “from the mother’s womb,” tainting all human beings with sin, and leaving them incapable of choosing good over evil, or determining their own destiny.” ....Written by St. Augustine

“We must conclude, that a husband is meant to rule over his wife as the spirit rules over the flesh. and “the flesh lusts against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh.” ....Written by St. Augustine

Referring to the Hell that awaits women, Augustine in his famous Latin sermon ''Ad Fratres in Eremitate Sermo LXIX.'' He describes how Satan seized the damned female and commanded his fellow devils to “pierce her eyes with forks as she enjoyed looking at unclean things, pierce her mouth as she used them for blasphemy, pierce her heart, as she did not harbor piety, compassion, clemency, and forgiveness there, pierce her hands with the heavy fork forged in Hell since she reached with them at things unclean and did not use them to distribute alms and help her neighbors, use the fiery forks to pierce her legs that she used to dance and meet her lovers.' Then to the gates of Hell she is carried and then '"out steps a hideous, horrible dragon, always ready to devour sinners. The dragon inserts the female into his mouth, full of stench. After chewing and digesting its prey, the dragon vomits the female into a fiery lake, where millions of other sinners wait for their trial by our Lord." .....Written by St. Augustine

”..marriage is a crime against God, because it changed the state of virginity that God gave every man and woman at birth....Marriage is a prostitution of the members of Christ, and married people ought to blush at the state in which they live.” Written by St. Ambrose

In the year 553 A.D. At a Council of bishops in Macon, religious leaders debate and voted on whether or not females had souls. By a narrow margin the Bishops decide that females have souls. Like it was their choice.

Penitential regulation laid down in the 7th century by Theodore, Bishop of Canterbury, forbade menstruating women to take communion or even enter the church. At the French Synod of Meraux, menstruating women were specifically forbidden to come to church

We move forward to the year 940 A.D. A well-respected religious leader named Odo, who was the leader of the Monks of Cluny, wrote, “To embrace a woman is to embrace a sack of manure.” And considered “….the beauty of a woman the greatest of snares.”

For this reason the hatred of women and marriage became popular in the Catholic Church. It is not only the wrong interpretations of the scriptures it has caused things that Satan would applaud.

Hence the church developed asceticism and self abuse.

 

[amigo de christo]

4 beasts and 24 Elders deliver the Prayers , which are Odors, OF the Saints to the Lamb.

And what are the names of the 24 elders and beasts that you pray TO?

never bow to the RCC . You sing to the KING , let this song cheer your soul my friend .
The lambs have CHRIST .

 

[amigo de christo]

You are right, we are no longer UNDER the condemnation of the law.
There is a difference between being UNDER and walkin IN it.
Do you murder? No? Then you are not condemned by the law. You are keeping the law by not murdering.
Do you Lie? No? Then you are not condemned by the law for lying. You are keeping the law by by not lying.

I could go through all 10 but I think you hear what I'm saying.
Walking IN God's commandments IS the Law of Liberty.

When we walked according to the flesh, murdering, lying, stealing... we were UNDER the comdenation of the Law.
When we walk according to the Spirit, we don't hate in our heart, we don't lie and we don't steal. We are walking in the Law of Liberty.

And this is Grace, that if we do sin according to the law, we don't get stoned. We have an advocate Jesus Christ to confess our sins to,
and He is Meriful and Righteous to forgive us.

There is a difference between being UNDER and walking IN the Law,

Hugs

 

[Brakelite]

What makes you think we are not as appalled as you are? No one has ever denied the crazy things people did 1000+ years ago. But the whole story is seldom told. Digging up centuries old dirt just hurts peoples feelings.



View attachment 30425


How about ALL OF US PEOPLE forge our swords into plow shares, forgive each other for the evil things BOTH our spiritual ancestors did. We should strive to make forums like a friendly cafe, not a bar room brawl. Let's all pray a minute before we post.
JP2 pleads:

1. Ut unum sint! The call for Christian unity made by the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council with such impassioned commitment is finding an ever greater echo in the hearts of believers,(US PEOPLE) especially as the Year 2000 approaches, a year which Christians will celebrate as a sacred Jubilee, the commemoration of the Incarnation of the Son of God, who became man in order to save humanity...​

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2. No one is unaware of the challenge which all this poses to believers. (US PEOPLE) They cannot fail to meet this challenge. Indeed, how could they refuse to do everything possible, with God's help, to break down the walls of division and distrust, to overcome obstacles and prejudices which thwart the proclamation of the Gospel of salvation in the Cross of Jesus, the one Redeemer of man, of every individual?​

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I thank the Lord that he has led us to make progress along the path of unity and communion between Christians, a path difficult but so full of joy. Interconfessional dialogues at the theological level have produced positive and tangible results: this encourages us to move forward.​

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Nevertheless, besides the doctrinal differences needing to be resolved, Christians (US PEOPLE) cannot underestimate the burden of long-standing misgivings inherited from the past, and of mutual misunderstandings and prejudices. Complacency, indifference and insufficient knowledge of one another often make this situation worse. Consequently, the commitment to ecumenism must be based upon the conversion of hearts and upon prayer, which will also lead to the necessary purification of past memories.​

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With the grace of the Holy Spirit, the Lord's disciples, inspired by love, by the power of the truth and by a sincere desire for mutual forgiveness and reconciliation, are called to re-examine together their painful past and the hurt which that past regrettably continues to provoke even today.​

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All together, they (US PEOPLE) are invited by the ever fresh power of the Gospel to acknowledge with sincere and total objectivity the mistakes made and the contingent factors at work at the origins of their deplorable divisions. What is needed is a calm, clear-sighted and truthful vision of things, a vision enlivened by divine mercy and capable of freeing people's minds and of inspiring in everyone a renewed willingness, precisely with a view to proclaiming the Gospel to the men and women of every people and nation.​

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It's an invitation, not a command. That's quite a big challenge for US PEOPLE, dontcha think?

Well that would be all well and good, of we could trust your church not to repeat her past atrocities. And yes, Protestantism a for a time were also corrupted by ill thought policies and practices. At the moment, protestantism and Catholicism are in subjection to more lenient, and liberal societal norms, but prophecy informs is that such liberality and freedom of conscience will take a back seat to a future time where freedom of religion and personal liberty to choose to worship according to ones conscience will be a lost cause. Today's evangelical fawning over government representatives is but the first step down the persecuting path. And so long as the doctrines and moral principles agree with Rome, ecumenism and the union of church and state will thrive, and the church, Babylon, will have apostatized and fallen from Christ.