Do you believe Spirit baptism replaces water baptism?

[360watt]

Actually, Christians are born at different times in history and therefore are saved individually and not as a group.

To God Be The Glory

Right... I agree. So when the Holy Spirit 'baptises' the disciples at Pentecost as a group.. 'with fire' ...

This isn't getting saved. The disciples were surely converted before Pentecost.

So.. these are the instances I see in scripture of Spirit baptism. Which reoccur in Acts. Of whole groups being empowered.

So why do we say a person is Spirit baptised at salvation? Where is that in scripture for the individual?

There is of course being born again.. aka Romans 10, John 3:16..

But I don't see these this as the Spirit baptizing. Where in scripture is that?

I contend the baptism in 1 Co 12:13 is water baptism by immersion. Not Spirit baptism.

 

[JunChosen]

Right... I agree. So when the Holy Spirit 'baptises' the disciples at Pentecost as a group.. 'with fire' ...
This isn't getting saved. The disciples were surely converted before Pentecost.

So.. these are the instances I see in scripture of Spirit baptism. Which reoccur in Acts. Of whole groups being empowered.

When communicating with others Scripture references would help.

Acts 1:5; 8 reads:
5) "For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence."

8) But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

The 120 in the upper room were gathered together on Jesus' command to give them the Holy Spirit to begin to evangelize the world, and as you quoted these are they who are already saved.

So why do we say a person is Spirit baptised at salvation? Where is that in scripture for the individual

Because the children of God is born in different times in history, He calls us collectively as we, us, and they, but in actuality He gives us eternal life individually.

There is of course being born again.. aka Romans 10, John 3:16..

But I don't see these this as the Spirit baptizing. Where in scripture is that?

Ezekiel 36:24-27 reads:

24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them].

I contend the baptism in 1 Co 12:13 is water baptism by immersion. Not Spirit baptism.

You may contend but you will be contending with God. If you read the rest of the chapter, you will find that God speaks of many parts yet still is one body.
1) Two ears
2) Two eyes
3) Two arms
4) Two legs.
5) Two feet

To God Be The Glory

 

[360watt]

When communicating with others Scripture references would help.

Acts 1:5; 8 reads:
5) "For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence."

8) But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

The 120 in the upper room were gathered together on Jesus' command to give them the Holy Spirit to begin to evangelize the world, and as you quoted these are they who are already saved.

Because the children of God is born in different times in history, He calls us collectively as we, us, and they, but in actuality He gives us eternal life individually.

Ezekiel 36:24-27 reads:

24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them].


You may contend but you will be contending with God. If you read the rest of the chapter, you will find that God speaks of many parts yet still is one body.
1) Two ears
2) Two eyes
3) Two arms
4) Two legs.
5) Two feet

To God Be The Glory

That body in view is the local body at Corinth. 'Ye are the body of Christ' ..ye is the church at Corinth

 

[JunChosen]

That body in view is the local body at Corinth. 'Ye are the body of Christ' ..ye is the church at Corinth

I beg to differ. He was addressing the Apostles and disciples which are the body of Christ (vs. 2).

 

[Johann]

I beg to differ. He was addressing the Apostles and disciples which are the body of Christ (vs. 2).

Not just the Apostles and disciples.......are you not part of the soma/body?


1Co 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
1Co 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many.
1Co 12:15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
1Co 12:16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
1Co 12:17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
1Co 12:18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
1Co 12:19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
1Co 12:20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
1Co 12:21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
1Co 12:22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
1Co 12:23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
1Co 12:24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:
1Co 12:25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
Rom 12:4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
Rom 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

1Co_12:12, 1Co_12:14-20; Rom_12:5; Eph_1:23, Eph_4:12, Eph_5:23, Eph_5:30; Col_1:24

Shalom
J.

 

[360watt]

Not just the Apostles and disciples.......are you not part of the soma/body?


1Co 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
1Co 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many.
1Co 12:15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
1Co 12:16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
1Co 12:17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
1Co 12:18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
1Co 12:19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
1Co 12:20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
1Co 12:21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
1Co 12:22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
1Co 12:23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
1Co 12:24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:
1Co 12:25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
Rom 12:4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
Rom 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

1Co_12:12, 1Co_12:14-20; Rom_12:5; Eph_1:23, Eph_4:12, Eph_5:23, Eph_5:30; Col_1:24

Shalom
J.

I'm part of the local body I joined.. the local church. Just as the church at Corinth is a local body. Although again calling it local is silly...since it is local by nature.

I joined the Family of God before this. Not the same thing as the body.

 

[DJT_47]

1 Corinthians 1:17-18 KJV
17) For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18) For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

The way Paul puts it here, he is contrasting baptizing and preaching, and that since preaching is the power of God to save, that's what God sent him to do.

1 Corinthians 3:5-9 KJV
5) Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
6) I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7) So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
8) Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
9) For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

The context here is that they are holding up one over the others, and he uses the farming analogy to show that's not the way to look at it. He's about to shift to a construction analogy,

1 Corinthians 3:10-13 KJV
10) According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11) For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12) Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13) Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

But his use of these analogies concerning whether we should divide the church over which person we follow, this does not negate Paul's earlier statements about the power of God in preaching, and not in baptism.

Much love!

Paul preached Apollos baptized was the point which is why Paul made the statement in 1 cor 1:17 as he did.

 

[Johann]

Paul preached Apollos baptized was the point which is why Paul made the statement in 1 cor 1:17 as he did.

Paul preached--Apollos "watered" nothing to do with water baptism in context.

 

[Marymog]

As you say. Indulgences were sold.

Huh???

 

[Marymog]

who's interpretation is right?
Mary,
I don't agree with your mistaken notion of an "authorized" interpretation.

I maintain that the correct interpretation is the one that corresponds to what the author intended to say. An author's intentions should always constrain the ways in which a text is properly interpreted.

Properly interpreted according to who?

 

[CadyandZoe]

Huh???

Anyone claiming that the Catholic church stands as a moral authority with the authority to dictate belief and practice must be sorely disappointed upon hearing about the sale of indulgences. Now that you have heard that the Pope sold indulgences, I'm surprised that you are still a Catholic.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Properly interpreted according to who?

Me, of course. Or are you saying that the Pope is the only person who can read?

 

[Marymog]

Me, of course. Or are you saying that the Pope is the only person who can read?

Well, I never said that the Pope properly interprets Scripture soooo don't put words in my mouth.

Since YOU can properly interpret Scripture all 2 billion Christians in the world should listen to YOU and then Paul's plea in 1 Corinthians will be answered:

Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment as CadyandZoe.

 

[Marymog]

Anyone claiming that the Catholic church stands as a moral authority with the authority to dictate belief and practice must be sorely disappointed upon hearing about the sale of indulgences. Now that you have heard that the Pope sold indulgences, I'm surprised that you are still a Catholic.

Hmmm......So let's put your logic into practice.

I leave The Church because some of the men with authority in The Church sinned.

I then join another church and after attending it for a while I find out that some of the men with authority in that church sinned.

Soooo I join another church and after attending it for a while I find out that some of the men with authority in that church sinned.

Then I wise up and I say to myself; Self, you don't need to be under the authority of sinful men. Stop going those churches, sit at home and read/interpret the bible on your own. After all, who needs sinful men of a church to have authority over you? Just throw out those parts of Scripture (Hebrews 13:17) you don't like and all is good!! After all, I am not a sinner.

 

[Johann]

Hmmm......So let's put your logic into practice.

I leave The Church because some of the men with authority in The Church sinned.

I then join another church and after attending it for a while I find out that some of the men with authority in that church sinned.

Soooo I join another church and after attending it for a while I find out that some of the men with authority in that church sinned.

Then I wise up and I say to myself; Self, you don't need to be under the authority of sinful men. Stop going those churches, sit at home and read/interpret the bible on your own. After all, who needs sinful men of a church to have authority over you? Just throw out those parts of Scripture (Hebrews 13:17) you don't like and all is good!! After all, I am not a sinner.

This is well said.

 

[marks]

This is well said.

Except she's not differentiating. Are we talking about learning our pastor took home some of the copy paper? Or that he's luring young girls?

Shall we say, Don't reject the child molester, after all, the other guy is stealing copy paper?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Well, I never said that the Pope properly interprets Scripture

Does he? Or no?

Much love!

 

[Johann]

Except she's not differentiating. Are we talking about learning our pastor took home some of the copy paper? Or that he's luring young girls?

Shall we say, Don't reject the child molester, after all, the other guy is stealing copy paper?

Much love!

Noted brother.
J.

 

[DJT_47]

Right... I agree. So when the Holy Spirit 'baptises' the disciples at Pentecost as a group.. 'with fire' ...

This isn't getting saved. The disciples were surely converted before Pentecost.

So.. these are the instances I see in scripture of Spirit baptism. Which reoccur in Acts. Of whole groups being empowered.

So why do we say a person is Spirit baptised at salvation? Where is that in scripture for the individual?

There is of course being born again.. aka Romans 10, John 3:16..

But I don't see these this as the Spirit baptizing. Where in scripture is that?

I contend the baptism in 1 Co 12:13 is water baptism by immersion. Not Spirit baptism.

You'll find that spiritual baptism you're discussing only occurred as recorded in Acts 2 and 10 wherein the spirit fell on people unilaterally without the laying on of the apostle's hands and for specific purposes: as signs to others, followed by a miraculous gift of the Spirit such as tongues. This doesn't happen today as there are no longer apostles by which the manifestation of spiritual gifts can be administered, nor is there any further need for miraculous gifts today, those cited in 1 Cor 12:8-10.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

op: does HS Baptism replace water?

No, water had it's place in the Previous Dispensation Of The Law, "FOR the remission of sin,"
Today's Dispensation Being That Of The Pure Grace Of God (Apart From ALL "works, Including
water baptism").

There is Only One (Ephesians 4:5) Baptism, in This Current Dispensation = "By The Holy Spirit Of God!" (1 Corinthians 12:13) - see 13 Bible baptisms to get the whole picture...
(or, a Summary of THREE baptisms)

OFF-topic? interpreting God's Word Of Truth? Did not God Give His people This?:

"For God Hath not Given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love,
and of a sound mind." (2 Timothy 1:7)

Thus, my interpretations Are None of any religion's business, But God's Business,
Between HIM And me (giving my account Only To HIM), Correct? And, Please:

Be Very RICHLY Blessed, Enriched, Encouraged And Edified In The Whole Picture Of
God's Word Of Truth!:

Handling The Word Of Life
+
Bible study Rules

Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II)!