Bibliolatry: Worship/knowledge of the book MORE than the author

[St. SteVen]

I have encountered some that I thought had fallen into this trap.

I asked them, "What would become of your faith if you put your whole library out on the curb on trash day?"
The guilty are left mostly speechless. Or, alternatively VERY angry. How come?

To be clear, I love the Bible and use it every day. But I know the difference between the book and the author.
In my experience, my relationship with the author is much more important than my relationship with the book.
Appropriate scriptures come to my mind all day long. Due to the work of the Spirit to quicken these things to my memory.

The Bible is not omniscient. (all knowing)
The Bible is not omnipresent. (everywhere present)
The Bible is not omnipotent. (all powerful)

The Bible does NOT love me.
It's paper and ink, maybe a leather cover. (or digital info)
That cow didn't die to pay my sin debt.

A true Bibliolator will demand chapter and verse to support my premise. - LOL

The bottom line:
Let's use the Bible to grow closer to God and each other, rather than as a weapon to destroy each other.

John 13:35 NIV
By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

 

[Charlie24]

I have encountered some that I thought had fallen into this trap.

I asked them, "What would become of your faith if you put your whole library out on the curb on trash day?"
The guilty are left mostly speechless. Or, alternatively VERY angry. How come?

To be clear, I love the Bible and use it every day. But I know the difference between the book and the author.
In my experience, my relationship with the author is much more important than my relationship with the book.
Appropriate scriptures come to my mind all day long. Due to the work of the Spirit to quicken these things to my memory.

The Bible is not omniscient. (all knowing)
The Bible is not omnipresent. (everywhere present)
The Bible is not omnipotent. (all powerful)

The Bible does NOT love me.
It's paper and ink, maybe a leather cover. (or digital info)
That cow didn't die to pay my sin debt.

A true Bibliolator will demand chapter and verse to support my premise. - LOL

The bottom line:
Let's use the Bible to grow closer to God and each other, rather than as a weapon to destroy each other.

John 13:35 NIV
By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

My dear friend, Steven! But I must ask, How can we grow closer to one another with the UR wedge driven between us?

You will not overlook it to grow closer so how can I? As long as I have known you, your conversation is centered, and will always return to the UR. Am I to accept what I strongly believe to be false doctrine to grow in fellowship with the followers of UR?

Does not the Scripture say that the Word of God is alive and active, sharper than any two-edged sword? What do you suppose that means?

I can assure the Holy Bible is much more that paper and ink, with a leather cover.

 

[Patrick1966]

Great post, Steven! What good is it to know the entire Bible if we don't love our brother?

 

[Behold]

It's paper and ink, maybe a leather cover. (or digital info)

You just described a phone book or a dictionary or the the back of an Album cover.

Listen.

The longest verse in the Bible, states that God elevates His word above His Name.

Its words from the Bible that a TRUE believer preaches, so that by hearing and then believing these words. (The Gospel), a hell bound sinner can become a part of God's Family.

The revelation of God.....from Adam to the Revelation is only found in the word of God.

If you are saved, then you were saved after hearing the words spoken from a New Testament that you heard and believed.
Try that with a dictionary.

So, its very revealing of you and your spirituality, ..... that you have a need to post against the Bible, the word of God.

I can understand if a Devil would do this or an Atheist, but, why would a Christian find it important to them to spit on the word of God, on a public Christian forum, by belittling it and denouncing it as you have done.?

Let me tell you a truth, St Steven.... real believers love the word of God, exactly as the Apostles and exactly as the Lord Jesus The Christ, Himself.
Christ never rebuked the bible, yet you just did.
Did you want to tell Him why?
He's listening....

So, for you to say you love the bible and then to categorize the word of God as if its a newspaper or the back of a cereal box......is not a good thing., is it?
Is it?

That bible is not just words.
Its a Spiritual Book, its alive, its Light, its Salvation, its food, and the roadmap to heaven., and it'll be here leading people to the Cross when you are long gone, and have no more words to say that chastise it.
That's a fact, St Steven.

 

[quietthinker]

My dear friend, Steven! But I must ask, How can we grow closer to one another with the UR wedge driven between us?

You will not overlook it to grow closer so how can I? As long as I have known you, your conversation is centered, and will always return to the UR. Am I to accept what I strongly believe to be false doctrine to grow in fellowship with the followers of UR?

Does not the Scripture say that the Word of God is alive and active, sharper than any two-edged sword? What do you suppose that means?

I can assure the Holy Bible is much more that paper and ink, with a leather cover.

and the 'Word of God' is a living active risen Saviour. To confuse him with text is a right proper confusion.

 

[Behold]

and the 'Word of God' is a living active risen Saviour. To confuse him with text is a right proper confusion.

Jesus is the Word made flesh.
The bible is the word of God in text.

God spoke words and creation sprang forth.
Jesus is the WORD of God.
The Bible is the word of God and the words of Jesus.

Jesus told you to keep his words.
The bible is where you find them.

Some will never be able to understand how those are so essentially connected.
Some dont want to see it.

 

[quietthinker]

Jesus is the Word made flesh.
The bible is the word of God in text.

God spoke words and creation sprang forth.
Jesus is the WORD of God.
The Bible is the word of God and the words of Jesus.

Jesus told you to keep his words.
The bible is where you find them.

Some will never be able to understand how those are so essentially connected.
Some dont want to see it.

Knowing the bible is quiet different to knowing Jesus. The difference is outstanding.

 

[ButterflyJones]

My dear friend, Steven! But I must ask, How can we grow closer to one another with the UR wedge driven between us?

You will not overlook it to grow closer so how can I? As long as I have known you, your conversation is centered, and will always return to the UR. Am I to accept what I strongly believe to be false doctrine to grow in fellowship with the followers of UR?

Does not the Scripture say that the Word of God is alive and active, sharper than any two-edged sword? What do you suppose that means?

I can assure the Holy Bible is much more that paper and ink, with a leather cover.

UR wedge?

 

[Charlie24]

and the 'Word of God' is a living active risen Saviour. To confuse him with text is a right proper confusion.

There is the Word of God (Jesus)

The Word of God (Scripture)

The context determines whether it is "the expression of a thought" in this case the "Written Word.

Or "Logos" the Eternal Logos Christ. Also know as the "Spoken Word" the Creator of all things. Through Him the written word is revealed by the Holy Spirit into the "Written Word."

 

[St. SteVen]

Thanks for weighing in on this topic. (and more)

My dear friend, Steven! But I must ask, How can we grow closer to one another with the UR wedge driven between us?

If there is a wedge, it is of your own creation, precious brother of mine.
Have I asked you to abandon your position on the final judgment in order to better align with me? (nope)

I would encourage your desire to grow closer as brothers. Don't let UR get in the way. (please)
Would you distance yourself from me if I was Catholic? Or Charismatic? (heaven forbid)
Or ask me to leave those behind to be closer to you? (probably not)

How GREATLY I do apperciate your concern for my well-being. Do you actually think UR is a salvation issue?
As if I would end up in the forever burning hell with no hope of escape that I speak against? (heavens no!)

You will not overlook it to grow closer so how can I? As long as I have known you, your conversation is centered, and will always return to the UR. Am I to accept what I strongly believe to be false doctrine to grow in fellowship with the followers of UR?

Believe me, I WANT you to grow closer. And frankly, UR is all the fertilizer you need. - LOL
You thought it was manure anyway, right? (insert canned laughter sound track here)
Yes, you should "accept what" we "strongly believe to be false doctrine to grow in fellowship with the followers of UR?"

But that's a tall order. I'm trying to put myself in your shoes. What would be a comparable situation for me to be in?
Not sure. My best friend in the whole world is agnostic. What can I say? I've known him for 30+ years. (well before UR)

And frankly, how could I now return to the vomit (no offense) of Damnationism, or silence on the subject of UR?
If y'all want hell, wez gonna giv it to ya. - LOL

Humor aside, ignore me if you want. I only want what's best for you. Do what you have to do. I support you either way.
You know I mean well. I can't just sit out when the character of God is being maligned.

Does not the Scripture say that the Word of God is alive and active, sharper than any two-edged sword? What do you suppose that means?

Of course. I hope you don't think that is a reference to paper and ink. (the message conveyor, NOT the message)

I can assure the Holy Bible is much more that paper and ink, with a leather cover.

Agree.
Thank you. Glad to hear it from you.

 

[St. SteVen]

The longest verse in the Bible, states that God elevates His word above His Name.

I hope you don't mean paper and ink. The conveyor instead of the message?
Of course you don't. Just wanted to make sure.

 

[quietthinker]

There is the Word of God (Jesus)

The Word of God (Scripture)

The context determines whether it is "the expression of a thought" in this case the "Written Word.

Or "Logos" the Eternal Logos Christ. Also know as the "Spoken Word" the Creator of all things. Through Him the written word is revealed by the Holy Spirit into the "Written Word."

Yes, I'm familiar with the explanations. Consider this, Jesus said, 'you have heard said....but I say unto you'
Where had they heard said? Jesus is referencing the OT scriptures; that's where they had heard said. He then uses the word 'but' I say unto you..... In other words, what I'm telling you trumps what you have heard...for example, 'you have heard said, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth but I say unto you, do not resist an evil man'
Another, you have heard said, do not commit adultery but I say unto you, everyone who looks at a woman and lusts after her in his heart has committed adultery already.

 

[Charlie24]

Thanks for weighing in on this topic. (and more)

If there is a wedge, it is of your own creation, precious brother of mine.
Have I asked you to abandon your position on the final judgment in order to better align with me? (nope)

I would encourage your desire to grow closer as brothers. Don't let UR get in the way. (please)
Would you distance yourself from me if I was Catholic? Or Charismatic? (heaven forbid)
Or ask me to leave those behind to be closer to you? (probably not)

How GREATLY I do apperciate your concern for my well-being. Do you actually think UR is a salvation issue?
As if I would end up in the forever burning hell with no hope of escape that I speak against? (heavens no!)

Believe me, I WANT you to grow closer. And frankly, UR is all the fertilizer you need. - LOL
You thought it was manure anyway, right? (insert canned laughter sound track here)
Yes, you should "accept what" we "strongly believe to be false doctrine to grow in fellowship with the followers of UR?"

But that's a tall order. I'm trying to put myself in your shoes. What would be a comparable situation for me to be in?
Not sure. My best friend in the whole world is agnostic. What can I say? I've known him for 30+ years. (well before UR)

And frankly, how could I now return to the vomit (no offense) of Damnationism, or silence on the subject of UR?
If y'all want hell, wez gonna giv it to ya. - LOL

Humor aside, ignore me if you want. I only want what's best for you. Do what you have to do. I support you either way.
You know I mean well. I can't just sit out when the character of God is being maligned.

Of course. I hope you don't think that is a reference to paper and ink. (the message conveyor, NOT the message)

Agree.
Thank you. Glad to hear it from you.

I love the fair words and speeches, Brother! Eloquence suits you well.

I've always declared that the UR is not void of salvation. They are extremist dreamers in a false hope that God will not keep His promise.

 

[Charlie24]

Yes, I'm familiar with the explanations. Consider this, Jesus said, 'you have heard said....but I say unto you'
Where had they heard said? Jesus is referencing the OT scriptures; that's where they had heard said. He then uses the word 'but' I say unto you..... In other words, what I'm telling you trumps what you have heard...for example, 'you have heard said, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth but I say unto you, do not resist an evil man'
Another, you have heard said, do not commit adultery but I say unto you, everyone who looks at a woman and lusts after her in his heart has committed adultery already.

Not sure what you're saying here.

But here are examples of the Word.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." This is the Eternal Logos (the Word) Jesus Christ.

"But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it." This is the Written Word (The Holy Bible).

The Eternal Logos, Christ, The Word, is revealed through the Written Word by the Holy Spirit.

 

[St. SteVen]

I love the fair words and speeches, Brother! Eloquence suits you well.

My pleasure, as always.
But as you probably know, "The Devil wears Prada." - LOL

I've always declared that the UR is not void of salvation. They are extremist dreamers in a false hope that God will not keep His promise.

Thanks for the clarification on the salvation issue.
And frankly, I was more concerned about what that might be doing to you than I.
That's one benefit of my evangelical upbringing, "eternal" security. (OSAS)

His promise to incinerate his enemies? My, my... (feel the love)

Acts 3:21 NIV
Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.

 

[St. SteVen]

Thanks for weighing in on this. Sorry it took me a bit to respond to your scorching post.

Its words from the Bible that a TRUE believer preaches, so that by hearing and then believing these words. (The Gospel), a hell bound sinner can become a part of God's Family.

To be clear, I'm not taking issue with the "words" of the Bible.
But rather what the book has become to some, which in my view is a VIOLATION of the words of the Bible.

You write, "... a TRUE believer..."
How are such things measured?

The revelation of God.....from Adam to the Revelation is only found in the word of God.

Do you believe that God speaks in no other way than through the Bible?
This is part of what I am addressing here. Perhaps you need to answer my challenge. (from the OP)

"What would become of your faith if you put your whole library out on the curb on trash day?"

If you are saved, then you were saved after hearing the words spoken from a New Testament that you heard and believed.
Try that with a dictionary.

That is an erroneous assumption about me. That's NOT how my relationship with God was restored.

And frankly, God could use a dictionary to speak to us, if He chose to.
Remember Balaam's donkey?

So, its very revealing of you and your spirituality, ..... that you have a need to post against the Bible, the word of God.

That's a cheap shot.

And a sign of Bibliolatry, to put your opinion above a person.

I can understand if a Devil would do this or an Atheist, but, why would a Christian find it important to them to spit on the word of God, on a public Christian forum, by belittling it and denouncing it as you have done.?

To "spit on the word of God"? My, my...
A bit of an over-reaction, me thinks.

By "belittling it and denouncing it"?
You have clearly missed the point of this topic.
And your rancor tells me I hit a nerve.

Let me tell you a truth, St Steven.... real believers love the word of God, exactly as the Apostles and exactly as the Lord Jesus The Christ, Himself.
Christ never rebuked the bible, yet you just did.
Did you want to tell Him why?
He's listening....

My OP was clear enough. You have really gone off the rails here, What's the bottom line? (from the OP)

The bottom line:
Let's use the Bible to grow closer to God and each other, rather than as a weapon to destroy each other.

John 13:35 NIV
By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

So, for you to say you love the bible and then to categorize the word of God as if its a newspaper or the back of a cereal box......is not a good thing., is it?
Is it?

Not a good thing to you. Others have responded positively to the topic.
But I am glad you spoke up, even though you disagree vehemently.
I prefer a lively discussion to a lot of glad-handing, or an echo chamber that discourages lively discussion.

So, thank you, from the bottom of my heart.

That bible is not just words.
Its a Spiritual Book, its alive, its Light, its Salvation, its food, and the roadmap to heaven., and it'll be here leading people to the Cross when you are long gone, and have no more words to say that chastise it.
That's a fact, St Steven.

I mostly agree. Thanks again.

 

[St. SteVen]

Knowing the bible is quiet different to knowing Jesus. The difference is outstanding.

That's a real gem. Thank you.

 

[Charlie24]

My pleasure, as always.
But as you probably know, "The Devil wears Prada." - LOL

Thanks for the clarification on the salvation issue.
And frankly, I was more concerned about what that might be doing to you than I.
That's one benefit of my evangelical upbringing, "eternal" security. (OSAS)

His promise to incinerate his enemies? My, my... (feel the love)

Acts 3:21 NIV
Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.

Steven, the restoration spoken of in Acts 3:21 is referring to Christ remaining in heaven until this dispensation of Grace runs its course, and Christ returns to make right the wrongs in this world. It begins the Kingdom Age when Christ will rule.

 

[St. SteVen]

There is the Word of God (Jesus)

The Word of God (Scripture)

The context determines whether it is "the expression of a thought" in this case the "Written Word.

That's a popular evangelical apologetic. But I'm not sure it holds water. IMHO

If "There is the Word of God (Jesus)" refers to John chapter one, it seems like a misquote.
The reference is to "the Word". (full stop) And again, "the Word" became flesh...
Adding "of God" is... well, adding.

"The Word of God (Scripture)", assuming a reference to Hebrews 4:12, is the spoken word.
Strong's definition:
something said; by implication, a topic, also reasoning or motive; by extension, a computation; specially, the Divine Expression.

Or "Logos" the Eternal Logos Christ. Also know as the "Spoken Word" the Creator of all things. Through Him the written word is revealed by the Holy Spirit into the "Written Word."

See definition above. Thanks.

There's something to what you have written.
Interesting how malleable it is, considering all the different expressions in so many (man-made) translations and paraphrased Bibles.
"Button, button; who's got the button?"

 

[St. SteVen]

Steven, the restoration spoken of in Acts 3:21 is referring to Christ remaining in heaven until this dispensation of Grace runs its course, and Christ returns to make right the wrongs in this world. It begins the Kingdom Age when Christ will rule.

Like a universal restoration? (UR) There's hope for you yet. - LOL

Acts 3:21 NIV
Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.