Imputation is based on the Old Testament

[VictoryinJesus]

The doctrine of imputation

When I first read that I thought it said “the doctrine of amputation”? I had to read it again!

 

[Episkopos]

So, just because the righteousness OF CHRIST, the imputation thereof to the believer is not found in Scripture, you want to make your own doctrine?

It's called biblical doctrine. Adding in words to the bible is great sport....and fools a lot of people...but we must stick to what is written.

What is not specifically SAID is definitely IMPLIED, the righteousness of Christ TO the believer.
ertain, that there is an immense difference between Christ’s having the guilt of our iniquities charged on him, and having the guilt of his own so charged.
It is admitted in the commentary, that God “treated Christ as if he had been a sinner,” and this is alleged as the probable sense of the passage. But this treatment of Christ on the part of God, must have some ground, and where shall we find it, unless in the imputation of sin to him?

God never treated His Son as a sinner. This is a misreading of the text. God ALWAYS sees things the right way. It is religious people that invent things and pretend.

Adding in words like "God" where evil is involved is a huge error. It is "we" that esteemed (imputed) Him not. Not God. WE imputed sin to Christ who knew no sin. FYI...God KNEW that Jesus hadn't sinned! ;) The problem with religious men is that they judge from themselves...not from truth or reality. They judged unrighteously. And this lack of judgment is rife among modern believers.

It was evil men that treated Jesus as a sinner. it was evil men that crucified the Son of God.

The flesh, when uplifted by religion, goes directly against holiness and true righteousness. That is theme throughout the entire bible...that somehow some people aren't getting. Didn't get the memo, perhaps?

They who thus become righteous, or are justified, are justified on his plan, and by a scheme which he has devised. Locke renders this: “that we, in and by him, might be made righteous, by a righteousness imputed to us by God.” The idea is, that all our righteousness in the sight of God we receive in and through a Redeemer. All is to be traced to him. This verse contains a beautiful epitome of the whole plan of salvation, and the uniqueness of the Christian scheme. On the one hand, one who was perfectly innocent, by a voluntary substitution, is treated As if he were guilty; that is, is subjected to pains and sorrows which if he were guilty would be a proper punishment for sin: and on the other, they who are guilty and who deserve to be punished, are treated, through his vicarious sufferings, as if they were perfectly innocent; that is, in a manner which would be a proper expression of God’s approbation if he had not sinned.

Who is Locke? Devised a scheme is right! An assumed righteousness. A pretend righteousness. A self-righteousness. Sure. Based on what? An elevation of religious flesh...just like the Pharisees...but worse. Since they never claimed to be as righteous as God.

Th Pharisees denied that anyone can walk above sin...wait...so do the modern Pharisees...even though they claim a righteousness for themselves that is beyond their own "filthy rags". Yet they would have God's righteousness be as their own...filthy. What arrogance! Will this go unpunished? I refer you back to the bible.

The whole plan, therefore, is one of substitution; and without substitution, there can be no salvation. Innocence voluntarily suffers for guilt, and the guilty are thus made pure and holy, and are saved. The greatness of the divine compassion and love is thus shown for the guilty; and on the ground of this it is right and proper for God to call on people to be reconciled to him. It is the strongest argument that can be used. When God has given his only Son to the bitter suffering of death on the cross in order that we may be reconciled, it is the highest possible argument which can be used why we should cease our opposition to him, and become his friends.
(See the supplementary notes on Rom_1:17; note at Rom_3:21. See also the additional note above on the first clause of the verse.

We call on people to repent because salvation is available. And judgment is coming.

God loves us AWAY from our sin...not in our sin.

Substitution? Jesus took the place of MANKIND on the cross . He died for and because of...the sins of the world. He gave His life for sinners AND the Beloved. And yes, He took on the power of the flesh...to show us how evil we are. By His stripes, we are healed. We love Jesus because He died for us...and in a way that gives us a way out of sin...making sin very sinful...especially religious sin (iniquity).

The “righteousness of God,” is doubtless that righteousness which the divine Saviour worked out, in his active and passive obedience, and if ever any of the guilty race of Adam are “treated as righteous” by God, it must be solely on the ground of its imputation.)
Barnes Notes.

More can be said, but I am not going into circular reasoning with you.

No one can have the righteousness of God imputed to him/her. But God's strength can cover us and help us to do what is impossible for us to do in our own strength. It is by His grace (strength) that we walk in resurrection life.

We will each be judged based on our own righteousness...what WE have done with what we have been given. And unless our righteousness exceeds that of religious people like the Pharisees, we will be cut off from God for eternity.

But who is wise and fears the Lord?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

This hit close to home. How misery loves company. I’ve become aware of when I check in with someone to see how they are doing, secretly I want them to be struggling as much as I am. I will say I’m wanting to hear they are well. But I don’t think that is the whole truth. It is not that I wish ill will on them but that somehow I find comfort in checking in on their struggles; that makes my own somehow better. Kind of mosey isn’t it. Instead of helpful. That is horrible I know. I noticed this inside me and have asked God “why do I do this instead of genuinely hoping better for them.” …seeking that instead. Others I should love and say I do love. That doesn’t feel like love to me, and it is coming from my own thoughts. I can relate to what you shared there because I can’t pretend to be good
And overcome those thoughts of “comfort in misery”. I have prayed for God to change those thoughts I have and to help me wish better for others and to genuinely hope for better for them instead of pacifying my own miseries. Does that make sense? Point is, it hit home because I get what you mean about it is not within my own strength but I do believe it is within Gods strength. I don’t think God has the Mind that: misery loves company. But instead He shares His Holiness that we may profit.

SBG, The above was in response to post 254
“So they grab at “imputed righteousness” rather than trusting God and asking God for the righteousness they hunger for.”


@stunnedbygrace the above also is probably why I immediately thought “humility is realizing we don’t have any” is so profound.

 

[Episkopos]

We need the righteousness of Christ imputed to us because we have no righteousness of our own.

That's not a biblical idea. We indeed have a righteousness of our own or else God could never impute righteousness to us. Ours must simply be greater than the hypocrites. I find that so few modern church-goers know the bible...especially the scriptures. Do a study on how many people God saw as righteous in the OT.

We are sinners by nature, and we cannot make ourselves righteous—we cannot place ourselves in right standing with God. We need Christ’s righteousness imputed to us—meaning, we need His holiness before God credited to our account.

These are false assumptions. We can't KNOWINGLY make ourselves righteous the same way a baby can't KNOWINGLY make himself cute.

The righteous don't consider themselves to be righteous. But that very humility justifies them in God's sight. Read again the parable of the Pharisee and the Publican. The Publican was not a saint...or holy, or walk the narrow way...not at all. He was simply justified because he was humble and had a contrite heart...which God approves of.

You are confusing righteousness and holiness...as all modern believers do. No one can make themselves holy...we need to be translated into the kingdom realm and abide in Christ to partake of HIS holiness.

In His Sermon on the Mount, Jesus makes our need for imputed righteousness plain. He says, “You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect”

That's funny. The "perfect" idea...comes from the OT. With the perfect (Tamim), God is perfect (Tamim). It means to be innocent of evil....no guile...just transparent honesty...which you will not find in the churches that men have set up to justify sin in the flesh.

A little bible knowledge can be a dangerous thing. Being a dilettante where the bible is concerned causes people to go astray.

Having Christ’s righteousness imputed to us does not mean we automatically do what is right—that will come through the process of sanctification.

What? There is no process of sanctification. This is a confused idea. We don't become slowly holy like God...we are translated INTO Christ to partake of HIS holiness. We are not slowly crucified. We are INSTANTLY crucified and taken to the higher walk...in the twinkling of an eye.

And being clothed with the righteousness of God makes us walk EXACTLY as Jesus walked...no sin.

FYI..God is holy and in Christ is NO sin. So then you are espousing a religion without power...without God's approval. You are satisfied with the approval of religious men....imposters.

The sheer scale of the sin of a sinful holiness...will reveal a HUGE judgment that non-God-fearers will walk right into.

What it does mean is that we are positionally righteous; even though we still sin, we are forensically or legally righteous.

This is religious gobble-di-gook....cooked up by clerics who were looking to fill pews and make some money. No one is positionally righteous.

Righteous is as righteous does...Period.

If God can hear even the sinful Publican...and justify him (even before Jesus died)...there is no need for religious interference.

God has credited the righteousness of Christ to our account, and He did this when He saved us. In grace, the holiness of Jesus Christ is ascribed to us. Christ “has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption” (1 Corinthians 1:30).

Only when we are IN Him...abiding in Him through translation into Zion to be WHERE He is...and walk as He walked. Otherwise you are pretending that something is there, when it isn't.

Look at all the pretenders....thousands of opinions and sects...ALL from the flesh looking to justify itself.

But who walks like Jesus above sin? Who walks in holiness? Where are the disciples of Christ?

By having the righteousness of Christ imputed to us, we can be seen as sinless, as Jesus is sinless.

We can be seen that way...by other posers...not God. God is not blind....people are.

A wonderful illustration of Christ’s imputed righteousness is found in Jesus’ parable of the wedding banquet. Guests are invited to the king’s celebration from every street corner, and they are brought in, “the bad as well as the good” (Matthew 22:10). All the guests have something in common: they are each given a wedding garment.

Not at all. This is about the righteous guests NOT the holy Bride. God goes easy on the righteous, but hard on the saints who will become the Bride. And ONLY the bride gets a wedding garment. The one who is bound hand a foot...are like so many modern believers who assume themselves into a place they don't belong...thinking being naked and blind is the same as being clothed with God's righteousness.

They are not to wear their street clothes in the banquet hall but are to be dressed in the garment of the king’s providing. They are covered in a gracious gift. In a similar way, we, as guests invited into God’s house, have been given the pure white robe of Christ’s righteousness. We receive this gift of God’s grace by faith.

Street clothes? What are you talking about? With grace comes a higher expectation. You need to let go of your religious indoctrination to seek the face of God for yourself.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

If God can hear even the sinful Publican...and justify him (even before Jesus died)...there is no need for religious interference.

Amen!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

We indeed have a righteousness of our own or else God could never impute righteousness to us. Ours must simply be greater than the hypocrites.

Do what they SAY but don’t do what they DO.

So practice and obey whatever they tell you, but don’t follow their example. For they don’t practice what they teach.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You are ignoring the elephant in my comment. You are a NON-TRINITARIAN BELIEVER. All Protestants, Catholics and Orthodox and most of us are Trinitarian.

We aren’t allowed to discuss this except in the non orthodox forum.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Stupid is as stupid does!"

Completely uncalled for.

 

[Mr E]

This hit close to home. How misery loves company. I’ve become aware of when I check in with someone to see how they are doing, secretly I want them to be struggling as much as I am. I will say I’m wanting to hear they are well. But I don’t think that is the whole truth. It is not that I wish ill will on them but that somehow I find comfort in checking in on their struggles; that makes my own somehow better. Kind of nosey isn’t it. Instead of helpful. That is horrible I know. I noticed this inside me and have asked God “why do I do this instead of genuinely hoping better for them.” …seeking that instead. Others I should love and say I do love. That doesn’t feel like love to me, and it is coming from my own thoughts. I can relate to what you shared there because I can’t pretend to be good
And overcome those thoughts of “comfort in misery”. I have prayed for God to change those thoughts I have and to help me wish better for others and to genuinely hope for better for them instead of pacifying my own miseries. Does that make sense? Point is, it hit home because I get what you mean about it is not within my own strength but I do believe it is within Gods strength. I don’t think God has the Mind that: misery loves company. But instead He shares His Holiness that we may profit.

A beautiful confession. Wonderful recognition and self-awareness.

 

[Episkopos]

We aren’t allowed to discuss this except in the non orthodox forum.

That post must have been deleted or moved...because I can't find it.

The early church was binatarian...Father and Son (Godhead of Elohim) united in One Holy Spirit. There is nothing MORE ORTHODOX than the divinity of Christ. For the first few hundred years, believers were Binatarian......although there were some adherents to the idea of making God's Spirit be a separate person... The champion of this was Athanasius...who called any that disagreed with him a heretic...hence the councils. Hence the religious conditions to being a Christian. Hence the stubborn rule of the religious outer man.

But the scheme of making the Spirit of God a separate person was to reduce God's active power and participation to being in name only. Men preferred to follow other men...not God. That is the way the church clerics could maintain control over what they termed as the laity. So then the trinity idea stems from men wanting control and power for themselves over the church. Clergy/laity (Nicolaitan doctrine) goes along with trinitarianism. One was created for the other.

How could it be any different?! ;)

Sorry for the digression.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I agree Epi. But we aren’t allowed to discuss trinity, trinitarianism, or “Jesus is not God.”
At least temporarily we aren’t allowed to, except in unorthodox forum.

 

[Episkopos]

A beautiful confession. Wonderful recognition and self-awareness.

Basically non-threatening to your ego.

 

[Episkopos]

My grandchildren are wanting to have a sleep over tonight. I’ll give what you said some thought. Right off the top of my head I would say I’m not Quick to suggest that God looks at our hating, back-biting, gossiping, envying and lying and sees Christ. With our saying; I am nothing but a worthless sinner and at the same time saying God sees Christ. Other wise why “you will know them by their fruit.” Is that the imputed righteousness of Christ you speak out against? Doing as I please while feeling safe under the umbrella of the “imputed righteousness” of Christ? Maybe I don’t understand…I’ll think about it.

Are you questioning the sinful Christ syndrome ("sin"drome) of imputing Christ to wickedness? Religious people will get into a snit. But God will smile. :)

 

[Johann]

When I first read that I thought it said “the doctrine of amputation”? I had to read it again!

Yeah, some "panta" needs to be amputated

 

[Johann]

What? There is no process of sanctification. This is a confused idea. We don't become slowly holy like God...we are translated INTO Christ to partake of HIS holiness. We are not slowly crucified. We are INSTANTLY crucified and taken to the higher walk...in the twinkling of an eye.

You need to be muzzled

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You need to be muzzled

Very ugly.

 

[Episkopos]

You need to be muzzled

Don't muzzle the ox! As I minister the truth I also partake of the earthly benefits of the fellowship. :)

 

[Episkopos]

I love the ways of God! He makes it so that religious people HATE what God approves...and love what God disapproves.

And no matter what you say...the flesh knows how to hate the truth. And will always do so.

 

[Episkopos]

Very ugly.

To be expected...actually the carnal mind can't help itself when confronted with God's ways.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You need to be muzzled

You need to be pantsed.