Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Because they aren't! The Watchtower has concocted a fanciful tale to keep you from doing what Jesus said is required for you!
What JESUS Taught Us At The Last Supper = John 13;3-5
- Thread starter Miz KJV Only
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Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
So our Watchtowers differ sir, time alone will tell which one of them is right.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
WEll as I do not have a central magazine I am required to read weekly in order to be faithful to God, I do not know where you get the idea I have a watchtower. Mine is called the Bible. sorry about yours.
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
Noth·ing
/ˈnəTHiNG/
pronoun
- 1. not anything; no single thing: "I said nothing" Similar not a thingnot a single thingnot anythingnothing at allOpposite something
- 1. having no prospect of progress; of no value: informal "he had a series of nothing jobs"
- 1. not at all: "he looks nothing like the others"
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
Why would you sir? You have chosen not to be one of Jehovah's witnesses. Of course that doesn't mean you will never choose to stand with Him, and clearly the door is still open. We know we are close to it's closing, but for now we are still under the assignment, still bringing the good news until Jehovah says the work is through.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Sorry Robert, but I would be dishonest to you if I didn't say, the good news you bring brings eternal condemnation.
By denying the physical resurrection of Jesus, not only are you not going to be saved if you die that way, but you keep others from being able to enter the kingdom.
This flock of 144,000 are all from the tribes of the children of Israel, Old Covenant ethnic Jews of faith. The Old Covenant people were first to hear the good news of salvation as the little flock or remnant of old. But what about the other sheep that are not of the same fold with Israel?
John 10:16 (KJV) And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
We find the words of Christ confirmed when we read of the great multitude, which no man could number coming from all nations, kindreds, and people and tongues. These would be Gentiles of faith grafted together with 144,000 ethnic Jews of one fold, or one flock.
Revelation 7:9-10 (KJV) After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
Looks like what began as a remnant or little flock from old has become an innumerable multitude together in Christ.
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Bob, I would agree the 144,000 could be the remnant of Old Covenant Israel in the vision John sees in Rev 5. But it might also represent all the redeemed in heaven or the full embodiment of heaven before the first advent of Christ. IOW God may have given John a vision of the plan of God from eternity when God ordained that Christ would be the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world (Rev 13:8). John may have been privileged to see the fullness the Kingdom of heaven shall be through the plan established in heaven through God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. God could be showing John a vision of all whose names were written in the Book of life from every kindred, tongue, people, and nation before the first advent of Christ.
Ephesians 1:4 (KJV) According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Luke 10:20 (KJV) Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
2 Timothy 1:9 (KJV) Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Titus 1:1-2 (KJV) Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Matthew 25:34 (KJV) Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Revelation 5:9-10 (KJV) And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Revelation 5:6-8 (KJV) And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
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Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
Noth·ing
/ˈnəTHiNG/
pronoun
- 1. not anything; no single thing: "I said nothing" Similar not a thingnot a single thingnot anythingnothing at allOpposite something
- 1. having no prospect of progress; of no value: informal "he had a series of nothing jobs"
- 1. not at all: "he looks nothing like the others"
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
I do not believe that denying the spiritual resurrection of Christ will keep you from everlasting life Ron, as you do accept that Jesus was resurrected. If you didn't believe in the resurrection of Christ, then why would you have the hope? So to me that is irrelevant, but refusing to worship the God of Jesus, now that is critical sir. That is a death dealing sin. You have to know God, and obey the gospel if you are to expect life to be granted to you 2 Thes 1:8,9
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
The contrasting proves the significance of the cross and resurrection of Christ (Gospel) to every nation of the earth Bob. The 144,000 from all the tribes of the faithful children of Israel is the remnant from the Old Covenant nation. The innumerable multitude are the faithful from ALL nations, those who have come out of great tribulation in this age and have been washed by the blood of the Lamb, as well as the faithful remnant who believed the prophets when they prophesied The Messiah would come to redeem them.
Romans 9:27-28 (KJV) Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.
In the days of Elijah Paul numbered the remnant according to election of grace as seven thousand faithful men from Israel. And in Paul's day, Paul says there is a remnant according to election of grace.
Romans 11:2-5 (KJV) God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
I view the number 144,000 as equating to the remnant of Old Covenant faithful Jews who lived before the promised Messiah came, and those faithful Jews, who, like Paul, having come out of the Old Covenant, embraced Christ through His Gospel and power of the Sprit, who lived and died in the first century AD.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
The Bible clearly says if you do not believe Jesus was physically raised from the dead- your faith is in vain and you are yet in your sin. And in Romans 10 it si required to believe Jesus rose from the dead to be saved. So maybe according to the watchtower you are correct, but according to Gods Word you are wrong.
When Christ died, He committed His spirit to His Father in heaven. What does that mean Bob, if it does not show Jesus' life through His living spirit being placed alongside the Father in heaven, His life after physical death being preserved by Him? Does this not indicate being spiritually resurrected after physical death?
Luke 23:46 (KJV) And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
