Here is why, as an Adventist, I believe America is in Trouble.
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ewq1938
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Typical red herring fallacy avoidance. Some of your beliefs do not come from the bible and it doesn't bother you in the slightest. If you want to discuss "Sunday sacredness" start a thread on it.
BTW, Sundays are NOT sacred. Go ahead, tell us Saturdays aren't sacred....lol
What nonsense !
If one rejects Sunday that means you do not support Christ Jesus in fact but are like the Jew and seeking Jesus too come.
That is why they think Saturday is still the day. For they do not believe in the new beginning in Christ Jesus.
Not to mention one does not make a big deal about such really because the main thing is regarding the Holy Spirit and not being bogged down in Religious nonsense. They are bogged down in religion.
To who it is given, is the point that one grows in Christ Jesus.
Yet one does have value even if one has a little faith as the seed has been sown in the hope that God willing will increase.
Jesus has come and gave us everything he need do, we do not need the 2ed coming to be Saved, when one is saved ? But the 2ed coming will come about, only because of the workings of Satan brings it on themselves ! and they will burn themselves up because they brought it on themselves. due to rejecting Christ Jesus!
This world is full of deceptions and delusions. Religion does not save one, only Christ Jesus Saves ones Soul. And one must come out from them ?
Is one worthy in Christ Jesus or worthy of ones Religion ?
If one is a Catholic, then yes, I get that this would be believed as you say, according to Catholic dogma.
But I am not a Catholic.
I am a Bible based Christian, a Protestant, and Protestants historically (or theoretically) base their faith and practise on scripture, not church philosophy or man made commandments. So if you can give a Bible based reason why I should abandon the 7th day Sabbath in favor of a 1st day Sunday, then I shall change my practise. However, I must warn you that after months of study 27 years ago I could find no reason not to obey the 4th commandment. And I have found no reason to change my view since.
The 7th day Sabbath was a gift given to man at creation. It is a universal gift for all men. God blessed and sanctified the 7th day... Shall we call His holy day cursed? Or shall we replace it with another day, unholy and unsanctified?
Reggie. Do you think Jesus will rebuke anyone for obeying the 4th Commandment? Or for ignoring the 4th Commandment? This has nothing to do with religion. It has everything to do with loyalty, relationship, and celebration of creation and redemption.
The Light
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This is not true brother.
Sunday worship has nothing to do with Christ Jesus. In 321 Constantine made Sunday a holiday and declared that all Judges, city people and craftsman shall rest on the "venerable day of the sun". Sunday was Baals day as Baal means Lord. Hence the Lords Day.
Christ has everything to do with Salvation.
I have plenty mates I grew up with who were Saturday people and I did not bother with that point but I still say Sunday is the true Day regardless because, I say that Christ has risen and is regaining, tho it's not complete yet in all but it will be coming.
I believe Jesus is here, he said that he would never leave us ? He regains in the Spirit of them who know him. bar them who know of him ? as they are not Saved, for they are not truly Born again who abide in him, but are only religious.
I am a Catholic but not a Roman Catholic.
I am not a Protestant anymore and have nothing to do with the RCC or any Protestant Church Mob, I have come out from them as the Bible says to do. I do not need them, but they all need to abide in Christ Jesus. Sadly they don't !!! Not One Church nowadays abides in Christ Jesus in fact, because they have clearly given themselves up to this World ! That is full of Deceptions and Delusions.
I grew up despising the RCC but then I looked into the depth of what they the top educated were saying and found out that the Protestants were lying on so many issues out right! their was more to the issues and I found that my lot were much ignorant. for they had lacked depth and one thing was that the Prots were right about the average RCC persons in general ? but them RCC were way out of touch and shallow not to mention idolising the Priest ! and stuck with a lot of stupid OT Jewish rubbish, That the NT forbids.
I believe that many RCC Priest were peddling a bastardised RCC position on their people. the Rot was and is always their within any Church all through history, worming it's way into Power !
I believe that their was bastards within the RCC meddling a power struggle big time in the 1930's on and they created the Vatican II worldly direction, I would say it was a smart move being progressive ? but the key position workings devoid of Christ Jesus !
A Church claiming it's self as God to this world and Pope Francis is clearly that ! Many Popes have warned of such within, Pope Ben said much about them and the Fear he had of them and their power, and the Rot starts with all the Power of the Queers. And that Power dominates over every Church nowadays. Pope JP II warned of all such year after year ! Pope Paul Warned of such Demonic within.
And Pope Leo was on the Ball way back then regarding the future he could see unfolding.
Christ has everything to do with salvation... No-one would disagree with that who claim the name Christian. What I am at issue with is so called Sunday sacredness. That has nothing to do with Jesus... Regardless of what took place in that day. The only day that scripture says God blessed, sanctified and made holy was the 7th day.
KJV Genesis 2:1-3
1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
KJV Exodus 20:8-11
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
KJV Revelation 22:14
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city .
Christ Jesus has everything to do with Salvation ! I have yet to see it in any Church being truly at it's first and foremost ! Or no one would of walked away from the Church.
The Religious are not Saved !
Ones religion does not Save your Soul ! Only Christ Jesus can do that for you.
They who call upon the Lord are seeking ? they may become Saved ! they who don't seek can not enter. See who they are calling ?
I would not get in a huff about the day with anyone. as everyday is serving Christ Jesus to me.
Well, I agree that we serve Jesus everyday. And we worship Jesus every day. But that doesn't remove the biblical truth that Jesus also gave you a day to rest and remember to keep holy. That day is a gift. Shall we return it unopened? He made that day for us. It was Jesus, your Creator, who made the 7th day holy, and He asks us all to keep it that way. For our benefit and blessing. The question and challenge we most all answer, is... Is that true?. And what are we going to do about it?
I agree with all that.
What can we do about that ? lead by example.
I inform people that reject a day of rest, is of Satan, thus he wants to make slaves of you all, have people so tied up that they do not have time to reflect on the bigger picture. Who are we and what are we truly doing in our lives ? Do we have foundations a Wellspring to drink from that makes us who we truly are in relation to Christ Jesus ! For if one does not have Lordship in Salvation, one has nothing !
So I abide in him under Grace ? Content that his will is worthy.
If one is not Of Christ Jesus then what are such ones, Nothing ! but abomination to God ! Slaves. Christ Jesus brings people up, we have to reach out for him and he will do the work in us.
Phoneman777
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We know by several solid, irrefutable Bible arguments that the Mark has to do with God's law as exemplified by the fact that those who DO NOT GET the Mark as those who keep God's commandments (Revelation 14:12 KJV) and have God's Law "sealed among My disciples" (Isaiah 8:16 KJV) - which means those who DO GET the Mark are breaking it.
The question is, which commandment does almost the entire Christian world break on a weekly basis and has no intention of repenting from doing so?
It's not fair to pretend SDAs don't have an eschatological leg to stand on when we were eighty years ahead of the Christian curve on the subject of the soon return of Christ during which time "post-millennialism" theological "experts" all stubbornly resisted and resisted the truth while calling us "heretics" - until Billy Graham jumped on our Adventist bandwagon and was soon followed by the rest of his Christian world groupies. Yet, the same spirit of stubborn refusal to obey God abounds today.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Your zeal for God's law is trying to surpass the New Covenant meaning of what it means to be "sealed."
2 Cor 1:21-22
21 Now He Which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
KJV
Eph 1:12-13
12 That we should be to the praise of His glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In Whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in Whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
KJV
As far as God's law goes under The New Covenant, those in Christ are not to be sinners of those things Apostle Paul taught in 1 Timothy 1, 1 Corinthians 6, and Galatians 5. But if we do slip up in a little sin, we are to abide by what Apostle John taught us in 1 John 1, repenting and asking Christ to forgive us. And by that we remain 'sealed' by The Holy Spirit for the end.
Phoneman777
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So, Isaiah is wrong? After all, he's the one who says Christians are "sealed" by the law in Isaiah 8:16 KJV. The Holy Spirit is the "Sealer" and the Law is that with which He seals us.
BTW, the OSAS crowd thinks the "seal" refers to the kind that keeps food fresh and has to do with some sort of "celestial containment" which keeps them saved for heaven no matter how much they live like hell...which is false.
"Sign" and "Seal" are used interchangeably, such as the "Sign of circumcision, the Seal of righteousness" - it's a "seal" in the sense of "identification" like a Trademark Seal or the Seal of POTUS. Anybody can claim to be Christian, but only those who have God's Spirit and can obey Gods' Law have the "Sign" they are God's people and are "Sealed" as such for all to see - got nothing to do with containment.
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Davy
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So now is you're next PLOY going to be pushing the lie that one who is not keeping a JEWISH SABBATH isn't a real Christian??
And you mean what Apostle Paul taught in Colossians 2:16 is a lie? as also what I showed you in 2 Corinthians 1 and Ephesians 1 about believers on Christ Jesus being "sealed" by The Holy Spirit?
Sorry, but your rejection of those NEW COVENANT SCRIPTURES I showed you will not allow you to separate Isaiah 8:16 into a law-keeping WORKS Salvation...
Rom 3:24-28
24 Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time His righteousness: that He might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
KJV
Phoneman777
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Of course not! Look, the Sabbath ain't "Jewish" because it was made thousands of years before the first Jew, and my church teaches that the majority of God's people are NOT in my church...yet ;)
You mean when Paul was talking about the yearly Feast Day Jewish sabbaths - not the weekly Sabbath - that the Jews kept annually which were "shadows of things to come"? Nope, he was telling the truth.
You either don't know or forgot to mention that the Holy Spirit is the "Sealer" and God's Law is what He seals us with.
The Bible says the only difference between the OC and NC is where God's Law is written: formerly in stone and now in our heart - it's the same Ten Commandments!
You need to understand that those who get saved and receive the "agape" of God in their hearts unavoidably demonstrate that by happily keeping His Law (1 John 5:3 KJV) - the wicked can't keep God's commandments even if they wanted to (Romans 8:7 KJV).
If Christ is enthroned on the heart, we can't help but be obedient because He lives out His own obedient life in us...which begs the question: why do so many "Christians" defend their sin? Re-read this last part for the answer ;)
BlessedPeace
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Another tune a friend will him in times of strife,besides row,row,row your boat,is Que Sera, Sera (Whatever Will Be, Will Be). The future is not ours to see, que sera, sera.
I've started to do that very thing when the news is worse and worse. It actually works. To bring a sense of calm and understanding that the big picture is out of our hands.
While the little details are meant to tear us and our sense of peace and security apart.
Then,I take a breath and remember, it's all God's doing.
Every last bit is his will executing his plan.
As Jesus even said when he told us how to pray.
"...thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven."
And so it is.
I have to remind myself when Traitors betray my country.
Relax.
I've started to do that very thing when the news is worse and worse. It actually works. To bring a sense of calm and understanding that the big picture is out of our hands.
While the little details are meant to tear us and our sense of peace and security apart.
Then,I take a breath and remember, it's all God's doing.
Every last bit is his will executing his plan.
As Jesus even said when he told us how to pray.
"...thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven."
And so it is.
I have to remind myself when Traitors betray my country.
Relax.
ewq1938
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There is absolutely ZERO connection to the mark being given to control buying and selling and anything related to Sunday worship. The mark has nothing to do with Sunday worship. It tells us plainly it has to do with buying and selling. It's not even worship related at all. It is financial related. The worship of the beast and it's image is NEVER mentioned with Sunday or the first day of the week or ANY DAY OF THE WEEK. Anything that says otherwise is deception and takes away from what scripture actually does say. Leave the SDA eisegesis out of prophecy.
BarneyFife
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This is good stuff, PM. I would say, though, that when a person is sealed in the proper, Biblical way there is, in fact, a 'containment' aspect.
I spent the first 26 years of my life immersed in the 'eternal security' doctrine as taught by my family's Southern Baptist tradition. And I truly believe that in my subconscious mind I never really believed it.
Because I would hear these sermons saying that once I was saved, my standing with God ws irrevocable. But the next week (and my dad complains of this same thing which is why he will only listen to Joel Osteen these days) I would hear a sermon about how I'd better be sure my "calling and election" was "sure" and that if I had any doubts about whether my initial conversion experience was genuine, I had best proceed as if I were starting all over from scratch.
The net effect of this brand of homelitics was that I had no real assurance at all, and what was preached as "righteousness by faith" was, after all, merely "righteousness by sincerity," with the sincerity just being another of the many 'works' that people are inclined to do to try and save themselves. Sincerity is not faith. Otherwise, there will be a lot of sincere, malicious actors in Glory.
There are a couple of things that Adventists are taught that I'm sure you'll be familiar with regarding this admittedly somewhat side-topic.
First, that legalism or salvation by creature merit is the foundation of every false religion. And here we see the 'eternal security' doctrine exposed as just one more casualty in that war against true saving faith.
Secondly, we're taught that the sealing (not the seal, itself) of God is a settling into the Truth. The "Truth" label is incendiary, of course, because of the incessant tension between truth as doctrine and Truth as it is in Jesus. C.D. Brooks used to solve this dilemma by thundering: "CHRIST IS DOCTRINE!!!" from the pulpit. And I took it at face value all those years ago, but I now know that he was really on to something.
But I'm getting off track. The 'settling into the Truth' idea has come to mean something increasingly important to me through the years because as I see it playing out in my own experience I noticed how naturally organic and beneficial it has been. I wouldn't trade the assurance of God's ability to keep me secure in His saving love that I have today for all the eternal security sermons ever preached.
When Satan comes calling to try to make me doubt my likelihood of overcoming to the end (which is becoming increasingly few and far between), Scripture after Scripture pops into my mind that are well able to repel his nonsense. I never had that kind of security as an 'eternal security' adherent.
And I believe the reason we have less success than we should in opposing this assuredly "doctrine of devils" is because we traditionally expend too much effort in refuting the counterfeit, and too little in advancing the genuine.
Of course, Isaiah was right, but in today's post modern, anti-organizational, critical theory (oppressed vs. oppressors), neo-New Covenant neo-Christianity world of sophisticated philosophy, the Old Testament is somehow the oppressor.
Not until we can convince folks that Christ wasn't just "whistling Dixie" when He said "I and my Father are one" (as if Christ had nothing to do with giving The Law And The Prophets) will they (pardon my "us-and-them" expression) be able to see that God's law and the transcript of His character contained therein are as immutable and unchanging as His very unfathomable essence.
If the Immanuel/God with us of the New Testament isn't the I AM of the Old, then we Christians are all a bunch of flimflam artists.
.
Davy
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It is JEWISH when applied according to JUDAISM. The Christian idea of God's sabbath is Sunday, the day Jesus Christ rose from the dead. Sunday is when the early Church in Apostle Paul's day gathered to worship, because Saturday banned travel because of the sabbath keeping required by Judaism, which controlled how people lived in Judea.
In Col.2, Paul told CHRISTIANS to not allow ANY MAN TO JUDGE regarding a holy day, or sabbath, or meat, etc.
Col 2:14-17
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
KJV
Since Christ came, and died on His cross, blotting out the "handwriting of ordinances" in God's law, no man is to JUDGE Christians regarding "meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:".
What is to happen in the world to come, AFTER Christ's future return, is a different matter, and does not apply to TODAY. Thus Jewish believers on Jesus Christ are NOT to judge Christians for NOT keeping the Jew's weekly sabbath per old covenant law. Keep it if you want, but don't try to force it, or even attempt to make others feel guilty because they don't keep it per the old covenant law.
Why don't you quit telling lies; you and I both well know that you are speaking of old covenant laws, and not really about The Holy Spirit.
I showed you Christian Doctrine about God's laws according to Apostle Paul under The New Covenant, and Paul never said anything about keeping the Jewish sabbath old covenant tradition that you push, and likewise nor many other old covenant requirements that you follow from your worship by the system of Judaism.
So why don't you admit it, even in your speech above AGAINST Christians, you suggest that you are not really a Christian, and have come here pushing lies against Christ Jesus.
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