The Godly Heresy of Sinless Perfectionism

[marks]

So Paul was in error for telling the Corinthians to kick out that fornicator among them in 1 Corinthians 5?

I'd suggest thinking twice before accusing Paul of error in the writing of Scripture, including his Scriptural example to the Church.

Much love!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I asked you a question by way of "Reality Check". It's up to you to recognize reality.

Much love!

Sorry. God cannot agree with sin. That is by no means any real reality but a falsehood.

 

[marks]

In fact, why haven’t you been defending Sinless Perfection if you truly are in agreement with it?

What is it you think I believe about this topic? I get the idea you aren't really reading much of what I'm saying, or that you aren't understanding it, or something.

It would be helpful I think if we could dial this in a little better.

Can you describe my view in two or three or four sentences? Really, however much you need. Would you?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Sorry. God cannot agree with sin. That is by no means any real reality but a falsehood.

What does this reply have to do with whether or not we are loving God with all our being at all times? That's a part of the holy standard of righteousness, so, are we there?

Reality check.

Much love!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@Bible Highlighter

You asked why I "liked" Johann's OP.

I believe it is hubris to think you no longer sin. Maybe you do, maybe you don't, but does any of us really have the full understanding of ourselves, our motivations, when we are "mistaken", and when we've had our thumb on the scale, there are a million things we can do that seem innocuous but are not. That which is not of faith is sin. The good we know to do and don't do, that is sin.

Either something comes from our new spirit, or from our flesh. And if it's from the flesh, it's not from faith.

It's not just about whether we realize we are in a fight or not, but what that fight is, and how we go about it.



He also shows that we shouldn't lose hope, and think we cannot defeat sin. Sin is already defeated! Now let us walk in that victory.

I think it was a good message!



Sometimes simple is best!

Much love!

Ah, so now you’re backtracking and changing your tune. You have now reverted back to revealing your true colors.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

What does this reply have to do with whether or not we are loving God with all our being at all times? That's a part of the holy standard of righteousness, so, are we there?

Reality check.

Much love!

Again, I believe the Bible teaches that a Christian cannot live righteously by God’s power if they are defending how they must sin again at some point because God cannot agree with sin. Scripture says we are to have the mind of Christ and Jesus never once justified sin or how we must sin again.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I'd suggest thinking twice before accusing Paul of error in the writing of Scripture, including his Scriptural example to the Church.

Much love!

So did Paul tell the Corinthians to kick out a fornicator among them? Yes or no? If yes, then your interpretation on the beginning of 1 Corinthians 4 is false.

 

[marks]

if they are defending how they must sin again

And you continue to attribute this to me, after all I've said.

What more can be said?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Ah, so now you’re backtracking and changing your tune. You have now reverted back to revealing your true colors.

I've not changed anything. Go back and read through my posts, maybe you'll pick up something you didn't see before.

At this point, I'll let what I've already written speak for me.

Much love!

 

[marks]

So did Paul tell the Corinthians to kick out a fornicator among them? Yes or no? If yes, then your interpretation on the beginning of 1 Corinthians 4 is false.

Show us the correct exegetion of the passage . . .

1 Corinthians 4:3-5 KJV
3) But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4) For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
5) Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

If you care to.

Much love!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Show us the correct exegetion of the passage . . .

1 Corinthians 4:3-5 KJV
3) But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4) For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
5) Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

If you care to.

Much love!

What do you make of 1 Corinthians 5 where Paul says to kick a fornicator among them? You’re ignoring this point because it refutes your false interpretation here.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

And you continue to attribute this to me, after all I've said.

What more can be said?

Much love!

You just basically said (using other words) how you are now in agreement with the OP. At one point, you made it seem like you were in disagreement. This is deception.

Anyways, if you are against Sinless Perfection then that means you are for doing some kind of sin again in the future.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@marks @Johann

How do explain away 1 Peter 4:1-2?
How do you each understand this passage?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Does having a loose attitude towards sin sound like what Jesus taught in Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, and Matthew 12.37?

 

[marks]

What do you make of 1 Corinthians 5 where Paul says to kick a fornicator among them? You’re ignoring this point because it refutes your false interpretation here.

I asked first.

Just the same, though you deflect from a real response into your "gotcha" question, myself, I don't mind answering.

Compare the two and ask yourself, what is being judged in each case? In one, the one who is to be disfellowshipped, is the case of a person openly committing a continuing act of sin, and that sin is being judged, the person to be disfellowshipped to see how serious it is.

In the other, the usefulness of the people are being judged, the work of God in them to perform His work in the Church. The fact is, Jesus gives pastor/teachers the the church, He gives apostles and prophets, and we are not to accept some and reject others, nor think ourselves as better than others.

In what way does one negate the other? I don't see that.

Call out the sin if the one won't repent, before the entire church if that's the only way to get through. But don't divide the church by lauding one leader and disparaging another.

Much love!

 

[marks]

@marks @Johann

How do explain away 1 Peter 4:1-2?
How do you each understand this passage?

Explain away?

Don't you ever tire of using loaded language?

And do you realize I've already covered this for you?

I have something I need to do right now, afterward I'll come back and answer . . . again . . . :)

Much love!

 

[marks]

Does having a loose attitude towards sin sound like what Jesus taught in Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, and Matthew 12.37?

Having a loose attitude towards sin doesn't sound like a Christian to me.

I'd like to renew my request that you write a few brief sentences outlining my belief concerning this topic.

Much love!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I asked first.

Just the same, though you deflect from a real response into your "gotcha" question, myself, I don't mind answering.

Compare the two and ask yourself, what is being judged in each case? In one, the one who is to be disfellowshipped, is the case of a person openly committing a continuing act of sin, and that sin is being judged, the person to be disfellowshipped to see how serious it is.

In the other, the usefulness of the people are being judged, the work of God in them to perform His work in the Church. The fact is, Jesus gives pastor/teachers the the church, He gives apostles and prophets, and we are not to accept some and reject others, nor think ourselves as better than others.

In what way does one negate the other? I don't see that.

Call out the sin if the one won't repent, before the entire church if that's the only way to get through. But don't divide the church by lauding one leader and disparaging another.

Much love!

You cannot ignore context. 1 Corinthians 5 is a part of my reply on your false interpretation.

I don’t want to bite and devour you.
If I have misjudged you, please forgive me.
I was only going off your words and my past experience with those who believe in a similar way as you do.

I only hate your belief that says you cannot lose salvation because it is unbiblical and immoral.

Moving on from this conversation.

 

[Behold]

So did Paul tell the Corinthians to kick out a fornicator among them? Yes or no?

Paul didn't tell them to "kick him out"., as you only "Kick out" subverted Heretics.
With sinning Christians you turn the heat up, and keep it hot. And they will stop or they will leave.
You dont have to "kick them out".
And later Paul told the same Corin church to let this young man back in.

And, something that is interesting to note, is that they allowed this "fornicator" back in.
And he was WILLFULLY SINNING...as was the Stepmother.
Notice that the willfully sinning young man didn't lose his Salvation, because he "willfully sinned"...
And neither did you, Reader, born again.

 

[marks]

@marks @Johann

How do explain away 1 Peter 4:1-2?
How do you each understand this passage?

1 Peter 4:1-3 KJV
1) Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
2) That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
3) For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:

Be resolved to endure suffering. Suffering is God's tool for renewing our minds, and conquering sin in us. God's intent is that we no longer sin. We should consider it "enough already!" and stop living like the rest of the world.

Jesus suffered for us, now it's our turn to suffer, for ourselves, for our own benefit.

This is a part of God's training us, as outlined in Hebrews 12, the chastening that comes to all of God's children, "training as you train a child". And after God works in us this way - grievously - suffering - it accomplishes His purpose resulting in the peaceable fruits of righteousness.

This passage does not, however, tell us that if you commit sin that you are no longer born again. If you think I'm wrong, please highlight in the passage where you see it saying that.

Much love!