The Problems of Perpetual Belief Alone Salvation-ism.

[Eternally Grateful]

A totally erroneous, unscriptural, doctrine. Belief alone doesn't save your soul; even devils believe and tremble according to James. When all pertinent scriptures are considered, you end up with the following list of requirements for salvation.
1. Belief and faith
2. Confession of your belief
3. Repentance
4. Water baptism for the remission of sins

Doing the above you are saved, receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, and are added to the body of Christ by the Lord which is his church thereby becoming a child of God and a Christian.

number 1 needs to be split into two categories

Belief will not save you, However, it is the beginning of the process.. It must grow into saving faith

Saving faith will not happen apart from repentance

everyone who repents and call out to God will confess it. its not a requirment though, it is an outpouring of gratitude to the one who was saved By grace through faith

Water baptism? If someone tries to get water Baptised in order to be saved, they will fail. they have added to the gospel

 

[DJT_47]

Here is a list of things that can't save you.

1.) water baptism
2.) Mary
3.) Church membership
4.) commandment keeping
5.) the Law
6.) enduring to the end
7.) confessing sin, regularly
8.) trying to be like Christ
9.) trying to abide in Christ
10.) Whatever else you are trying to do to go to heaven


Why does NONE OF THAT have anything to do with going to heaven and being SAVED?

A.) Because none of that died on the Cross for you.


Figure it out DJT_47, while you are still breathing.

Not much to figure out if you can read. The bible clearly spells out what's required as I've listed. You are inconsistent with the inspired writers of the bible. A very good example of conversion is that of the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8. He was preached Jesus, he believed, he confessed, and was baptized. Another good example is that of the Jews on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2. They believed, were told to repent and be baptized. Read them. Believe them while you're still breathing, or ignor or reject them.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Not much to figure out if you can read. The bible clearly spells out what's required as I've listed. You are inconsistent with the inspired writers of the bible. A very good example of conversion is that of the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8. He was preached Jesus, he believed, he confessed, and was baptized. Another good example is that of the Jews on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2. They believed, were told to repent and be baptized. Read them. Believe them while you're still breathing, or ignor or reject them.

water baptism will no more save you then physical circumcision saved the jew in the OT/

Spirit baptism is the baptism you want..

 

[DJT_47]

water baptism will no more save you then physical circumcision saved the jew in the OT/

Spirit baptism is the baptism you want..

Like I said you are inconsistent with scripture because the scriptures say something contrary. 1 Peter 3:21, Acts 22:16, the aforementioned Acts2:38, Mark16:15-16. Also, we're baptized into Christ. If you're not baptized you're not in Christ and if notvon Christ, you're not part of his body which is the church. No other way to get into Christ other than by baptism. It's all part of the plan and it all comes together to make perfect sense. And to your comment about the Holy Spirit. You receive the gift ofvthe spirit upon baptism according to Acts 2:38 as well. Go study some more.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Like I said you are inconsistent with scripture because the scriptures say something contrary. 1 Peter 3:21, Acts 22:16, the aforementioned Acts2:38, Mark16:15-16. Also, we're baptized into Christ. If you're not baptized you're not in Christ and if notvon Christ, you're not part of his body which is the church. No other way to get into Christ other than by baptism. It's all part of the plan and it all comes together to make perfect sense. And to your comment about the Holy Spirit. You receive the gift ofvthe spirit upon baptism according to Acts 2:38 as well. Go study some more.

no, actually I make scripture agree.

Acts 2 does not say what you think it is. if y7ou look at the origional text

1 peter 3 says shows that the waters of baptsm, like the waters of the flood. are symbolic of the spiritual water that Jesus mentioned in John 4 which flows to eternal life

Mark 16 does not say water baptism. Your adding to the word. and also causing Jesus himself to contradict himself in John 3, 4 5 and 6 where no mention of baptism is

 

[DJT_47]

no, actually I make scripture agree.

Acts 2 does not say what you think it is. if y7ou look at the origional text

1 peter 3 says shows that the waters of baptsm, like the waters of the flood. are symbolic of the spiritual water that Jesus mentioned in John 4 which flows to eternal life

Mark 16 does not say water baptism. Your adding to the word. and also causing Jesus himself to contradict himself in John 3, 4 5 and 6 where no mention of baptism is

What else does 1 Peter 3:21 say? It, Peter, says baptism doth also now save us. It doesn't matter if it's symbolic or not, it still saves us according to Peter.

1The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

And regarding Mark, there was the one baptism starting with John's baptism and that was in water, in the Jordan River. And belief was followed by water baptism. Read all the accounts. And upon baptism, that's when you receive the Holy Ghost, not before, and don't use Acts 2 and 10 as a feeble attempt to try to disprove this. And don't confuse receiving the gift (singular) of the spirit with the various gifts of the Spirit as noted in 1 Cor 12:8-10. Two distinctly different things, one being the spirit itself, the other being the miraculous manifestation of various gifts from the Spirit once embedded in you and activated by the laying on of the apostle's hands who are now all dead.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What else does 1 Peter 3:21 say? It, Peter, says baptism doth also now save us. It doesn't matter if it's symbolic or not, it still saves us according to Peter.

1The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

And regarding Mark, there was the one baptism starting with John's baptism and that was in water, in the Jordan River. And belief was followed by water baptism. Read all the accounts. And upon baptism, that's when you receive the Holy Ghost, not before, and don't use Acts 2 and 10 as a feeble attempt to try to disprove this. And don't confuse receiving the gift (singular) of the spirit with the various gifts of the Spirit as noted in 1 Cor 12:8-10. Two distinctly different things, one being the spirit itself, the other being the miraculous manifestation of various gifts from the Spirit once embedded in you and activated by the laying on of the apostle's hands who are now all dead.

like figure.. So I was right. Another figure…

John the baptist said Jesus would Baptise with the HS. So your wrong. There was more than one baptism.

 

[DJT_47]

Sorry, you are wrong and are not understanding what John the Baptist said in its proper context. Here's a repost I put together for someone else recently that addresses this topic.

REPOST

Start with Luke 3:16 and Luke 24:47-49 both restated in Acts 1:4-5. What's it say? One will come that will baptize with the Holy Ghost and with fire, in Luke 3:16, and in Luke 24:47-49, it says repentance and remission of sins should be preached starting at Jerusalem and to tarry there until they received power ftom on high. And what's Acts 1:4-5,say? It restates both of these.

4And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

And in Luke 24:47-49, who was this addressed to? Starting in verse 36 of Luke 24, Jesus appears to the APOSTLES and verses 47-49 is his instructions to them, the apostles.

47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48And ye are witnesses of these things. 49And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Then Acts 1:8 says the following

8But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth
It's clear that the falling of the Holy Ghost with fire was meant for THE APOSTLE'S as well as the power from on high, and that this occurred as recorded in Acts 2; read it all carefully.

Futher, Acts 10 was also a unique demonstration of the Holy Ghost and unilaterally by the Holy Ghost falling on the Gentiles first and unlike Acts 2 where it fell on the apostles, but also as a sign and validation from on high which there validated it was God's plan to bring the Gentiles into the body of Christ. In that case, it was validation to Peter and company. It fell on the Gentiles prior to baptism but they were then immediately baptized. Why? Because that's how you become part of the Lord's body; you're baptized into Christ as noted in scripture such as Acts 2:38-47 and elsewhere.

The power from on high and the miraculous manifestation of the gifts of the Spirit, not the Spirit itself, but it's gifts as noted in 1 Cor 12:8-10, are manifested by the laying on of the APOSTLE'S hands as noted in Acts 6:6, Acts 8:18 and Acts 19:6, and it was the apostles who performed the miraculous gifts of the Spirit as noted in Acts 5:12 and those that they laid their hands on such as Stephen as recoreded in Acts 6:6.

The scriptures prove themselves.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Sorry, you are wrong and are not understanding what John the Baptist said in its proper context. Here's a repost I put together for someone else recently that addresses this topic.

REPOST

Start with Luke 3:16 and Luke 24:47-49 both restated in Acts 1:4-5. What's it say? One will come that will baptize with the Holy Ghost and with fire, in Luke 3:16, and in Luke 24:47-49, it says repentance and remission of sins should be preached starting at Jerusalem and to tarry there until they received power ftom on high. And what's Acts 1:4-5,say? It restates both of these.

4And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

And in Luke 24:47-49, who was this addressed to? Starting in verse 36 of Luke 24, Jesus appears to the APOSTLES and verses 47-49 is his instructions to them, the apostles.

47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48And ye are witnesses of these things. 49And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Then Acts 1:8 says the following

8But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth
It's clear that the falling of the Holy Ghost with fire was meant for THE APOSTLE'S as well as the power from on high, and that this occurred as recorded in Acts 2; read it all carefully.

Futher, Acts 10 was also a unique demonstration of the Holy Ghost and unilaterally by the Holy Ghost falling on the Gentiles first and unlike Acts 2 where it fell on the apostles, but also as a sign and validation from on high which there validated it was God's plan to bring the Gentiles into the body of Christ. In that case, it was validation to Peter and company. It fell on the Gentiles prior to baptism but they were then immediately baptized. Why? Because that's how you become part of the Lord's body; you're baptized into Christ as noted in scripture such as Acts 2:38-47 and elsewhere.

The power from on high and the miraculous manifestation of the gifts of the Spirit, not the Spirit itself, but it's gifts as noted in 1 Cor 12:8-10, are manifested by the laying on of the APOSTLE'S hands as noted in Acts 6:6, Acts 8:18 and Acts 19:6, and it was the apostles who performed the miraculous gifts of the Spirit as noted in Acts 5:12 and those that they laid their hands on such as Stephen as recoreded in Acts 6:6.

The scriptures prove themselves.

1st, The posts you just posted have to do with the anointing of the Holy Spirit. not the baptism.
2nd. When john made this promise, he was not peaking to the apostles. he spoke to the poeple. and said Jesus would baptize THEM
3rd. Read the passage..

11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit [a]and fire. 12 His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”


if we break this down we see a few things

1. A winnowing fan is used to desperate wheat from the chaff
2. John is using this as a symbol to explain what baptism with the holy spirit and baptism with fire is
3. Baptism of the spirit will be used to gather the wheat (true believers) into the barn (heaven)
4 What ever is left, will be cast into the fire that shall never be quenched (hellfire) as Jesus himself baptizes the lost into hell for eternity.

Everyone will be baptised by Jesus, You need to pick how. the HS or fire.

it does not matter if your baptised in water or not. If your not baptized in the spirit. your lost.

 

[DJT_47]

1st, The posts you just posted have to do with the anointing of the Holy Spirit. not the baptism.
2nd. When john made this promise, he was not peaking to the apostles. he spoke to the poeple. and said Jesus would baptize THEM
3rd. Read the passage..

11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit [a]and fire. 12 His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”


if we break this down we see a few things

1. A winnowing fan is used to desperate wheat from the chaff
2. John is using this as a symbol to explain what baptism with the holy spirit and baptism with fire is
3. Baptism of the spirit will be used to gather the wheat (true believers) into the barn (heaven)
4 What ever is left, will be cast into the fire that shall never be quenched (hellfire) as Jesus himself baptizes the lost into hell for eternity.

Everyone will be baptised by Jesus, You need to pick how. the HS or fire.

it does not matter if your baptised in water or not. If your not baptized in the spirit. your lost.

Unfortunately, you don't know what you're talking about. Believe what you like. Goodbye

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Unfortunately, you don't know what you're talking about. Believe what you like. Goodbye

I know exactly what I am talking about

You, however, do not understand what the greek word baptizo means..

I will pray for you. I fear for you.. I pray the lord shows you

 

[DJT_47]

I do very well know what baptizo means Goodbye you know nothing

 

[Titus]

If belief only is the only requirement by God to receive His free gift of grace, then can one dis-obey Gods commandments and be saved?
Can I not repent and be saved?
Can I not love Jesus and be saved?
Can I be saved without ever doing a work of righteousness?

If God only requires we believe in Him, then it must be true that NOTHING else is required, including obeying His commandments. If not, why not?

 

[Titus]

I know exactly what I am talking about

You, however, do not understand what the greek word baptizo means..

I will pray for you. I fear for you.. I pray the lord shows you

Eternally Grateful have you written to Greek scholars as I told you to do?
You are the one who desperately needs to ask Greek scholars what baptizo means.
I am going to guess you have not contacted any Greek scholars yet.

 

[Titus]

I do very well know what baptizo means Goodbye you know nothing

Hello DJT_47!

 

[Gospel Believer]

If belief only is the only requirement by God to receive His free gift of grace, then can one dis-obey Gods commandments and be saved?
Can I not repent and be saved?
Can I not love Jesus and be saved?
Can I be saved without ever doing a work of righteousness?

If God only requires we believe in Him, then it must be true that NOTHING else is required, including obeying His commandments. If not, why not?

Because Salvation is a gift.....Christ did everything necessary for Salvation at the Cross...all we have to do is to " cash in" to what Christ already did FOR us when He shead His Blood at Calvary....' It is by Grace that you are saved"

 

[Titus]

Because Salvation is a gift.....Christ did everything necessary for Salvation at the Cross...all we have to do is to " cash in" to what Christ already did FOR us when He shead His Blood at Calvary....' It is by Grace that you are saved"

I would like an answer to my specific question from you or anyone else that teaches God does not require obedience to His commandments for salvation.
I ask again,
Can one not repent and be saved? Not obey the commandment to repent, Acts 17:20

Can one not confess with the mouth and be saved? Not obey the commandment of confession Romans 10:9-10; Matthew 10:32-33.

Can one not believe and be saved? Not obey the commandment to have faith in Christ, Mark 16:15-16 ; 1Corinthians 15:1-4 ; 1John 3:23-24.

If obedience to Gods commandments are not required by God to be saved as Faith only salvation teaches. Then it must be true that Faith alone salvation is salvation by disobedience rather that salvation by obedience to Jesus' commandments. If not why not?

 

[Gospel Believer]

I would like an answer to my specific question from you or anyone else that teaches God does not require obedience to His commandments for salvation.
I ask again,
Can one not repent and be saved? Not obey the commandment to repent, Acts 17:20

Can one not confess with the mouth and be saved? Not obey the commandment of confession Romans 10:9-10; Matthew 10:32-33.

Can one not believe and be saved? Not obey the commandment to have faith in Christ, Mark 16:15-16 ; 1Corinthians 15:1-4 ; 1John 3:23-24.

If obedience to Gods commandments are not required by God to be saved as Faith only salvation teaches. Then it must be true that Faith alone salvation is salvation by disobedience rather that salvation by obedience to Jesus' commandments. If not why

Repentance is mandatory but there are three different types.....repenting of sins is a good thing and it will occur naturally once a person gets saved...repenting of sins in and of itself will save nobody--- ask Judas...
If by Repentance one understands it to mean what it actually means literally ( mind change), if one does not believe the Gospel of 1cor15:1-4 and later * Changes his mind* and comes to believe it, he has done all the " repenting" that he ever need do in order to get Saved....

 

[Titus]

Repentance is mandatory but there are three different types.....repenting of sins is a good thing and it will occur naturally once a person gets saved...repenting of sins in and of itself will save nobody--- ask Judas...
If by Repentance one understands it to mean what it actually means literally ( mind change), if one does not believe the Gospel of 1cor15:1-4 and later * Changes his mind* and comes to believe it, he has done all the " repenting" that he ever need do in order to get Saved....

Thanks, and nice to meet you. You believe repentance is mandatory. But you said this repentance is changing ones mind to belief in Jesus,.. from unbelief to belief. So, that is the repentance you say is mandatory for salvation, NOT repentance of ones sins.
You do realize unbelief is a sin?
John 8:24
-for if you do not believe that I am He you will die in your sins.

So to go from the sin of unbelief to believing in 1Corinthians 15:1-4. Is repentance of the sin of unbelief.

So, you are wrong to say no repentance of sin is mandatory for salvation.
I'm not believing you know the true gospel of Jesus Christ because you have contradicted yourself already, If not, why not?

 

[Gospel Believer]

Thanks, and nice to meet you. You believe repentance is mandatory. But you said this repentance is changing ones mind to belief in Jesus,.. from unbelief to belief. So, that is the repentance you say is mandatory for salvation, NOT repentance of ones sins.
You do realize unbelief is a sin?
John 8:24
-for if you do not believe that I am He you will die in your sins.

So to go from the sin of unbelief to believing in 1Corinthians 15:1-4. Is repentance of the sin of unbelief.

So, you are wrong to say no repentance of sin is mandatory for salvation.
I'm not believing you know the true gospel of Jesus Christ because you have contradicted yourself already, If not, why not?

The sin of Unbelief is the only sin not covered by the Blood.... I am In a hurry right now....I'll get back to you later today..... ( I ran out of eggs...lol)