The One Baptism

[Charlie24]

As an exception, not as a rule.

And speaking in biblical tongues (glossais) was totally different from modern tongues (glossolalia). In general, the gift of the Holy Spirit was given when a sinner heard the Gospel, repented and believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. The church at Ephesus is a good example. Kindly notice the progression:

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the Word of Truth, the Gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. (Eph 1:12-14)

So what do we see here?
1. The Gospel was preached.
2. It is called "the Word of Truth"
3. Salvation comes by believing the Gospel.
4. The Ephesians heard the Gospel and believed on the Lord Jesus Christ.
5. As a result they received the Holy Spirit, which is an "earnest" or downpayment of eternal salvation.
6. Then the Holy Spirit "sealed" them by making them children of God, and the purchased possession of Christ.
7. That was a guarantee of their eternal inheritance in Heaven.
8. All of this was to the praise of the glory of God's grace.

IS THERE EVEN A HINT OF SPEAKING IN TONGUES?

Yes, the Gospel was given every time this gift was given.

The Pentecostals are quick to point out (1 Cor. 13:8) that tongues shall cease, but prophecies and knowledge will also cease with it.

Has knowledge ceased! No it hasn't! They say it is not the complete cannon of Scripture "when that which is perfect is come" but the resurrection is when that "perfect" will come and these things are no longer needed.

 

[Charlie24]

Yes, the Gospel was given every time this gift was given.

The Pentecostals are quick to point out (1 Cor. 13:8) that tongues shall cease, but prophecies and knowledge will also cease with it.

Has knowledge ceased! No it hasn't! They say it is not the complete cannon of Scripture "when that which is perfect is come" but the resurrection is when that "perfect" will come and these things are no longer needed.

So we understand, the "knowledge" that will cease in 1 Cor. 13:8 is not general knowledge such as technology, or advancement in areas of knowledge. Paul is referring to the gift of knowledge, "the Word of Knowledge." This gift has not ceased, and neither has the gift of "the Word of Wisdom."

 

[theefaith]

Is this the same Catholic Church that brought us the crusades and the inquisition? That imprisoned, strangled and burned people who translated the Bible into English? That sold indulgences? That Catholic Church?

have you never heard of the black legend?

 

[theefaith]

The religion of all twelve tribes of Israel was Judaism. All twelve tribes were therefore Jewish. Judah was merely one of the twelve.

how can they all be Jewish is only one was Judah, what does Jewish even mean other than the tribe of Judah???

 

[Matthias]

how can they all be Jewish is only one was Judah, what does Jewish even mean other than the tribe of Judah???

Moses was from the tribe of Levi. You don’t believe he was Jewish?

Saul wasn’t from the tribe of Judah. You said in another post that Saul, from the tribe of Benjamin, was Jewish. That’s right, but in light of the question you’re asking in this post, why did you say that he was?

 

[RLT63]

have you never heard of the black legend?

Ali or Tyson?

 

[farouk]

Ali or Tyson?

@RLT63 Not sure either of them are particularly interested in baptism...

 

[theefaith]

The mosaic covenant is indispensable to Judaism.

Please explain

 

[Matthias]

Please explain

That’s interesting coming, as it does, from someone who is familiar with the black legend.

 

[RLT63]

That’s interesting coming, as it does, from someone who is familiar with the black legend.

It seems he prefers to go by the Golden Legend

 

[RLT63]

have you never heard of the black legend?

I could post a lot of material about the origin of the Catholic Church but I consider Catholics to be my brothers and sisters and wouldn't want to knowingly do something that would be offensive to them. But historical facts are not a black legend.

 

[theefaith]

Moses was from the tribe of Levi. You don’t believe he was Jewish?

Saul wasn’t from the tribe of Judah. You said in another post that Saul, from the tribe of Benjamin, was Jewish. That’s right, but in light of the question you’re asking in this post, why did you say that he was?

no I’m saying they are not Jewish
So what makes a person Jewish

and the Christian religion is not a sect of Judaism but a new and eternal covenant founded by God!

 

[theefaith]

Ali or Tyson?

I take it the answer is no!

the black legend of the Protestants!

nothing but accusations, attacks from pride and errors, full of misconceptions and misunderstandings like the ones you have been quoting!

 

[Matthias]

no I’m saying they are not Jewish

You’re saying that Moses and Saul aren’t Jewish? (You said previously that Saul was Jewish.)

So what makes a person Jewish

I know you don’t think Jesus was Jewish. [You think Jesus is Roman Catholic.]

For our historically grounded readers: What made Jesus Jewish?

and the Christian religion is not a sect of Judaism but a new and eternal covenant founded by God!

I’ve learned through conversation with you that history isn’t your strong suit.

 

[Marymog]

Already provided. This is what you do in many threads; ask for evidence that was JUST provided.

Although I was baptized as an infant in the RCC, I consider it a kind of joke as there is no Biblical support for infant baptism.

I know you felt like you provided evidence...but it really wasn't.....so I digress.

Show me in Scripture where it says DON'T baptize infants and I will join you in your fight against babies being saved (1 Peter 3:21) just like adults.

Here is the truth Wrangler. There is YOUR bible and then there is The Bible:

The bible: Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Your bible: Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them, except infants, in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

The bible: And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Your bible: And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you, except infants, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The bible: Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Your bible: Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, but not infants, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

The bible: For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.
Your bible: For in one Spirit we were all baptized, except infants, into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.

The bible: And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized.
Your bible: And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family, but not the infants, were baptized.

The bible: Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas. Besides, I do not know whether I baptized any other.
Your bible: Yes, I also baptized the adults of Stephanas household. Besides, I do not know whether I baptized any other.

People were bringing even infants to him that he might touch them; and when the disciples saw it, they sternly ordered them not to do it....“Let the little children come to me, and do not stop them; for it is to such as these that the kingdom of God belongs.

The first 300 years of Christian history: Irenaeus, Hippolytus, Origen and Cyprian of Carthage supports infant baptism.
Your Christian history: 500 years ago someone from the Protestant Revolution further divided Christianity by saying infants shouldn't be baptized.

What more is there to say Wrangler? Scripture and Christian history does not support what your men have taught you....

 

[RLT63]

I take it the answer is no!

the black legend of the Protestants!

nothing but accusations, attacks from pride and errors, full of misconceptions and misunderstandings like the ones you have been quoting!

Are you familiar with the Golden Legend?

 

[Matthias]

@theefaith I read this years ago but couldn’t recall where. As I was thinking about your denial that Jesus is a Jew, the phrase “Jesus is more Jewish than you think he is” came to mind. Googling the phrase, I pulled up the linked newspaper article published by The Times of Israel on November 22, 2017.

Jesus was more Jewish than you think, says Bible prof

 

[RLT63]

You’re saying that Moses and Saul aren’t Jewish? (You said previously that Saul was Jewish.)



I know you don’t think Jesus was Jewish. [You think Jesus is Roman Catholic.]

For our historically grounded readers: What made Jesus Jewish?



I’ve learned through conversation with you that history isn’t your strong suit.

It's my understanding that Abraham was the first Jew (by covenant) and Stephen gives a pretty good history of his people in Acts 7, just before they stone him.

 

[theefaith]

I could post a lot of material about the origin of the Catholic Church but I consider Catholics to be my brothers and sisters and wouldn't want to knowingly do something that would be offensive to them. But historical facts are not a black legend.

Accusations are!

 

[Matthias]

It's my understanding that Abraham was the first Jew (by covenant) and Stephen gives a pretty good history of his people in Acts 7, just before they stone him.

Paul makes the important point that Abraham was a Gentile when he believed God and entered into a covenant with him.

Some do say Abraham was the first Jew, others that Judaism began at Mount Sinai. I’m in the latter group, but I wouldn’t quibble over it.

To say that Moses isn’t a Jew is historically untenable. The same with Jesus.

“Moses the Roman Catholic” and “Jesus the Roman Catholic” are wholly theologically driven assertions. It’s an easily seen bias.

I think I should probably clarify here that a person can be trinitarian without denying history. Trinitarianism is easily located in history. It’s well preserved in the writings of the early Church Fathers.