John 1:1 - Jesus is the Father or he's not the one true God?

[tigger 2]

When the devil really wants to get his point across, He cast's doubt on the Bible and sends in the Scholars.

"hath God said"? "can you really trust a bible"... "what about the Greek, isn't that the originals".

So, i guess you can continue your pretense, tigger 2, but, it'll fail., continually.

......................................
Just as I thought Mr. true student.

 

[APAK]

You go ahead and place your bet, and i'll just create a short theological study because somewhere in your post was a type of question, i think.

1.) its easy to understand that Jesus is the Word made Flesh, who was the WORD who was with God and was God.
1 Timothy 3:16 <> John 1
its easy to understand that "Let US, make man in OUR Image", is not talking about just ONE : MAKER.
Apak....Even someone like you can understand "US" and "OUR" is : 2 (at least.)
Its not complicated to understand.....that the World was made Through Jesus, in John 1:10, and then read "God said, let there Be", and Christ pre-incarnate as the WORD, was the method of SPOKEN Creation, with the Holy Spirit being the Means as the Creative force.

2.) When you can see all that, and its not hard to see, unless you are trained by a cult to not see it....= then when you next read Thomas say that Jesus is "my GOD"< and when you then read and understand that The Breath that God breathed as the Spirit into Adam in Genesis, is the same JESUS the God Man who Breathed on the Apostles, and said...."receive ye the Holy Spirit"....
Its the same GOD, but one was with ADAM and one was named JESUS when He did this same thing with the 11 Apostles.. = only GOD can give the Holy Spirit, because God IS the Holy Spirit.... and Jesus just gave Him in John 20:22.. to the 11 Apostles... and that explains why Jesus is described in Colossians 1:16 as God.

So, all of that when meditated upon by the true student of the word, will allow them to understand that the Trinity is not a man made theological invention.

I guess I was right, wager or not. This is such an incoherent mess Behold. There's nothing in your post that suggests you know or can coherently form a logical argument let alone a commentary of your newly selected scripture. As far as I'm concerned you have a failed to make your point(s), yet again.

Let me know if you want me to explain 1 Tim 3:16, and then John 1:1 and 14 for you, as you cannot I see, eventhough you gave the strong impression you knew this scripture.

 

[Justbobg]

Jesus is absolutely more than just a man who is God's son. He is actually God incarnate, Immanuel - God with us.

 

[Justbobg]

Jesus is absolutely more than just a man who is God's son. He is actually God incarnate, Immanuel - God with us.

That’s what most people think that do not understand what The Son of God means . Try again

 

[Justbobg]

Could you explain those 5 words you bolded with some context and commentary?

What would you think I meant if after a very bloody battle I assumed my beloved Prince lay dead on the battlefield and the battle was lost. And then to my joy and surprise to find out that not only my King brought in reinforcements and won the battle for my Prince, my Prince was also alive because of my King. And then later I saw the Prince with my own eyes, truly alive from the 'dead' and without a scratch on him. I then I cried out in tears, (for my) My Prince and my King!'

Is the Prince and the King the same person?

Yes Thomas got commended for his unbelief , not his confession of faith . Peter got commended for his confession of faith , far more accurate and true worthy of Jesus commendation , sorry Thomas not this time .

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus is absolutely more than just a man who is God's son. He is actually God incarnate, Immanuel - God with us.

This ranks among the most bizarre rationalizations. 1st, The son of God is called Jesus, not Immanuel. 2nd, to say a word that means X ought to be taken literally is without foundation.

For instance, Peter’s name means rock. So, that means by using the same rationalization, that Peter IS a rock.

3rd, and finally, this must apply to every Peter and everyone named Immanuel, which means there are many Gods manifesting in the flesh throughout the ages.

So bizarre.

 

[tigger 2]

This ranks among the most bizarre rationalizations. 1st, The son of God is called Jesus, not Immanuel. 2nd, to say a word that means X ought to be taken literally is without foundation.

For instance, Peter’s name means rock. So, that means by using the same rationalization, that Peter IS a rock.

3rd, and finally, this must apply to every Peter and everyone named Immanuel, which means there are many Gods manifesting in the flesh throughout the ages.

So bizarre.

........................................
Immanuel

Should Jesus really be considered to be God because he was symbolically “named” Immanuel (Is. 7:14; Mt. 1:23) which means “God is with us”? No more so than Gabriel was calling himself God when he visited Mary and declared: “The Lord is with thee” - Luke 1:28. Nor did Zacharias mean that John the Baptizer (his new son) was actually God when he was asked, “I wonder what this child [John] will turn out to be?”, and he answered, “Praise the Lord, the God of Israel, for he has come to visit his people and has redeemed them.” - Luke 1:66-68, LB.

Gabriel and Zacharias (Zechariah) meant exactly what Israelites have meant throughout thousands of years when saying “God is with us” and similar statements. They meant “God has favored us” or “God is helping us”! - Gen. 21:22; Ex. 18:19; Nu. 23:21; josh. 1:9; 1 Chron. 17:2; 2 chron. 1:1; 35:21; ezra 1:3; is. 8:10. And Joshua 1:17; 1 Samuel 10:7; 2 Chron. 15:2-4, 9 (cf., Jer. 1:8; Haggai 1:13). But if we insist on trinitarian-type “proof,” then Gabriel must have meant that he (Gabriel) is God! And Zacharias (whose own name means ‘Jehovah is renowned’ - p. 678, TDOTB) must have meant that John the Baptizer is God! – Also see 1 Sam. 17:37; 2 Sam. 14:17; 1 Ki. 8:57; 1 Chron. 17:2; 22:18; 2 Chron. 36:23; Is. 41:10; Amos 5:14; Zech 8:23. (Also see “Immanuel” in the Insight books.)

This understanding is seen throughout the Bible. For example, “But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all, the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and declare that God is really among you.” - 1 Corinthians 14:24-25, RSV.

Or, in a Psalm many of us apply to ourselves or our friends:

4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; for thou art with me - ASV.

The acclaimed trinitarian Bible dictionary, The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, 1986, Vol. 2, pp. 86, 87, states:

“The name Emmanuel [or Immanuel] which occurs in Isa. 7:14 and 8:8 means lit. ‘God [is] with us’ .... In the context of the times of Isaiah and King Ahaz the name is given to a child as yet not conceived with the promise that the danger now threatening Israel from Syria and Samaria will pass ‘before the child knows how to refuse evil and choose the good.’ Thus, the child and its name is a sign of God’s gracious saving presence among his people .... [The name Emmanuel] could be a general statement that the birth and naming of the special child will indicate that the good hand of God is upon us.” - p. 86. And, “The point of the present passage [Matt. 1:23] is to see in the birth of Jesus a saving act of God, comparable with the birth of the first Emmanuel. Both births signify God’s presence with his people through a child.” - p. 87.

Or as noted trinitarian scholar Murray J. Harris tells us:

“Matthew [in Matt. 1:23] is not saying, ‘Someone who is “God” is now physically with us,’ but ‘God is acting on our behalf in the person of Jesus.’” - p. 258, Jesus as God, Baker Book House, 1992.

How else do we know that Immanu El in Hebrew means ‘God is with us’? We know because shortly after it is introduced in Isaiah 7:14 and repeated in 8:8, the very same Hebrew term is explained in 8:10 - “God is with us” - KJV; RSV; NRSV; NASB; NIV; NEB; REB; NJB; NAB; MLB; LB; etc.

 

[Justbobg]

Excellent post . Jesus plainly said God the father is with him , that does not make Jesus God , if Jesus was God himself he and God would have said so . God called Jesus his Son , Jesus called God his father . It’s really simple , but most people do not have correct info . And are misled by doctrines that have been around for years . Hey let’s read the Bible prayerfully.

 

[Justbobg]

Excellent post . Jesus plainly said God the father is with him , that does not make Jesus God , if Jesus was God himself he and God would have said so . God called Jesus his Son , Jesus called God his father . It’s really simple , but most people do not have correct info . And are misled by doctrines that have been around for years . Hey let’s read the Bible prayerfully.

I have a question for all to consider, when Jesus was in Mary’s womb was Jesus a creation or not ? How could he not be ? No options sorry . So can ever a creation say I’m the creator? Not a chance . And Jesus never made the claim to be creator , but he did make the claim of having a relationship with God . And God honored him . After all Jesus is the only begotten Son of God .
some people claim Jesus is the word of God made flesh , and yes he is . But the creator spoke the word . And we should all know who that is .

 

[Taken]

That’s what most people think that do not understand what The Son of God means . Try again

The Son of God, is a title.
God does not have babies.
God can not Reproduce an Offspring.
Reproduce by definition is something WITH a Beginning.

Jesus IS A Name, God Gave to “Gods Word”.
Gods Word was NOT created.
Gods Word was IN God, IS God, and when Gods Word comes Forth out of Gods Mouth, (in speech, it is communication, and EVEN when Gods Word comes FORTH out of Gods Mouth, that same Word Remains IN and WITH God), because IN or Sent forth out of Gods Mouth...Gods Word IS a true and holy thing OF God Himself.

AND when Gods Word comes Forth out of Gods Mouth, and God PUTS His WORD IN a BODY, That God has Prepared (for human men to see and hear), THAT IS, a mystery of God, Scripture Reveals.

FURTHER, Scripture Reveals:
Heaven IS Gods Throne...Earth IS Gods Footstool.
Heaven IS the Estate of holy Celestial beings (created spirits, hosts, servants of God)
Earth IS the Estate of what Began as GOOD, Terrestrial beings (created seeds that God Formed a Body from Dust, and gave to each seed, and to each Body, it having it’s own reproducing seeds, to Reproduce “IT’S” same “KIND” of thing...(manKIND, animalKIND, herbKIND, plantKIND)

WHEN God PUT His WORD into a BODY God Prepared, and SENT that holy thing TO EARTH.......GOD SAID;...
God IN Heaven WOULD BE “A” father to Him.
AND TO God IN Heaven (what God Sent TO EARTH), WOULD BE TO GOD, “A” Son.

Gods Father and Son relationship between God and His Word, (He Named JESUS), IS BY, through, of....Gods Declaration.
(Mankind had already anciently Learned names for relationships...fathers, mothers, sons, daughters, husbands, wives, heads of clans, etc., and their meanings)

Moses was head of his clan ACTING father, (which is representative of the HEAD of household, HEAD of a clan, etc.)
It was Moses who first DECLARED, God in Heaven is FATHER of all.

When Gods Word came forth out of His mouth, and God Prepared a Body for His Word, and sent that holy thing to a Womb of a Virgin Jewish woman, that would marry a Jewish man of the House of David.....that holy thing, delivered forth, was called Jesus...and foretold to Mary...he would be called Son of Man.....and WOULD BE CALLED, the Son of God......which was fulfilled some 30 years later, on the DAY, God declared “this” day, God begat and announced this IS HIS Son.

ORDER and WAY, according to God, becomes jumbled when MeN do not KEEP Gods ORDER and WAY in consideration, perspective and proper ORDER, according to God Himself.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[BeyondET]

I have a question for all to consider, when Jesus was in Mary’s womb was Jesus a creation or not ? How could he not be ? No options sorry . So can ever a creation say I’m the creator? Not a chance . And Jesus never made the claim to be creator , but he did make the claim of having a relationship with God . And God honored him . After all Jesus is the only begotten Son of God .
some people claim Jesus is the word of God made flesh , and yes he is . But the creator spoke the word . And we should all know who that is .

The vessel not the Word.

 

[BeyondET]

Excellent post . Jesus plainly said God the father is with him , that does not make Jesus God , if Jesus was God himself he and God would have said so . God called Jesus his Son , Jesus called God his father . It’s really simple , but most people do not have correct info . And are misled by doctrines that have been around for years . Hey let’s read the Bible prayerfully.

It's like an octopus, three hearts in One.

 

[BeyondET]

Certainly there is meaning behind creating such a bazaar animal with nine brains one of kind.

 

[Taken]

That’s what most people think that do not understand what The Son of God means . Try again

Actually, MOST people DO NOT BELIEVE ... Jesus IS the Son of God.
And MOST people DO NOT UNDERSTAND ... Jesus IS the Son of God, by, through, of......Gods Declaration.

Human Children are reproduced from Fertilized Human seeds.
Humans, Animals, herbs, plants, trees...all Reproduce their same KIND of thing, from their own seeds...and fertilization.

God IS Eternal. God can NOT REPRODUCE His Same KIND of thing.
God Can NOT REPRODUCE something with a beginning that had no beginning.

God CAN however, MAKE a created thing, receive His SEED, and CAUSE that seed to create and make an eternal LIVING thing.
There is no “fertilization”, of mixing a SEED of a human and SEED of God.
Same as. There is no “fertilization”, of mixing SEEDS of a human man and woman..........when a man and a woman.......ADOPT a child.
The Child Becomes the “LEGAL” child of the man and woman.
The Childs father and mother are LEGALLY, the child’s father and mother. It’s a Declared relationship.

A man who receives Gods Seed, is a Declaration of Adoption of that man Lawfully being Gods son...called Born “OF” God...which IS A spirit being, Born “OF” Gods SEED.

 

[BeyondET]

Actually, MOST people DO NOT BELIEVE ... Jesus IS the Son of God.
And MOST people DO NOT UNDERSTAND ... Jesus IS the Son of God, by, through, of......Gods Declaration.

Human Children are reproduced from Fertilized Human seeds.
Humans, Animals, herbs, plants, trees...all Reproduce their same KIND of thing, from their own seeds...and fertilization.

God IS Eternal. God can NOT REPRODUCE His Same KIND of thing.
God Can NOT REPRODUCE something with a beginning that had no beginning.

God CAN however, MAKE a created thing, receive His SEED, and CAUSE that seed to create and make an eternal LIVING thing.
There is no “fertilization”, of mixing a SEED of a human and SEED of God.
Same as. There is no “fertilization”, of mixing SEEDS of a human man and woman..........when a man and a woman.......ADOPT a child.
The Child Becomes the “LEGAL” child of the man and woman.
The Childs father and mother are LEGALLY, the child’s father and mother. It’s a Declared relationship.

A man who receives Gods Seed, is a Declaration of Adoption of that man Lawfully being Gods son...called Born “OF” God...which IS A spirit being, Born “OF” Gods SEED.

Herbs I liked that, speaking on seeds imo none of Mary’s was used but the discarded lining, dirt is basically from discarded things.

 

[Taken]

Excellent post . Jesus plainly said God the father is with him , that does not make Jesus God , if Jesus was God himself he and God would have said so . God called Jesus his Son , Jesus called God his father . It’s really simple , but most people do not have correct info . And are misled by doctrines that have been around for years . Hey let’s read the Bible prayerfully.

It’s NOT SIMPLE.
Men THINK with their Carnal Mind, according to LOGIC.
LOGIC is having a SET of options from which to choose that which MAKES SENSE.

Gods THOUGHTS are Pure TRUTH, no “options of this or that”.
For a man to ACCEPT Gods Pure TRUTH...IS Difficult...BECAUSE it requires the man, to SET aside, the NATURAL carnal minded Logic of what MAKES SENSE....and DECIDE to TRUST Gods Word, whether or not the man UNDERSTANDS Gods Word.

Gods Word and Gods Understanding IS CALLED A MYSTERY....And for MANY men, remains a MYSTERY....again because, their Carnal Minded “logical” thinking RESISTS, what does not make sense.

No DOUBT, anciently and historically and modernly.......MEN CALLED philosophers HAVE BEEN and ARE revered, AS “great thinkers”, and “cleverly great speakers”....and DO MAKE LOGICAL SENSE to eager and willing CARNAL MINDS of MEN....to follow after and adopt such mens,
LOGICAL Carnal Minded speech, quotes, writings.

Remember the Warnings.....
The Carnal Mind IS AGAINST GOD.
Philosophies OF Men will spoil you to follow them, INSTEAD of Gods Word.

(Then pay attention to the World advocation and push for children to be 13 years of their lives, with “college” EDUCATED strangers, the Majority of their waking lives, teaching these young impressionable minds, and being rewards for Agreeing with these “teachers”........AND these “college educated teachers”....number ONE CLASS being advocated and in some cases Required IN College?? Philosophy!! )

 

[Pearl]

That’s what most people think that do not understand what The Son of God means . Try again

That is what true Christians KNOW. You must be a Watchtower slave.

 

[Taken]

Herbs I liked that, speaking on seeds imo none of Mary’s was used but the discarded lining, dirt is basically from discarded things.

A females “seed” ovum, is fertilized By a mans “seed” sperm ... NOT in her womb...but rather the “seed” of a man enters the womb, travels up the Fallopian tube and Fertilizes the Woman “seed” at the high end of her Fallopian tube called her Ovary, WHERE her “seeds” are located and WHERE fertilization takes place. The Fertilization taking place is called CONCEPTION.
Once a woman’s seed IS fertilized that “fertilized” seed travels down her Fallopian tube to Her Womb. Once IN the WOMB, the woman is CALLED....CONCEIVED.....(aka, Pregnant, Expecting, a thing of her Same KIND of thing, aka, a manKIND of thing).
It attaches to the wall of her womb, and a Placenta begins forming, engulfing the seed. The Placenta begins forming a sac of fluid, to protect the fertilized seed. The Placenta IS a barrier between the Woman’s Independent Natural LIFE...(ie her BLOOD) ... and the FORMING natural human babe.
The umbilical cord begins forming on the fertilized seed and attached to the Placenta.
The Placenta IS the ... FOOD delivers and WASTE receiver...for the forming, called developing fetus....
Woman ingests, food, minerals, vitamins, and a portion is sent to the Placenta to FEED/nourish the fetus.
Fetus expels any waste from it’s developing body, back to the Placenta, and back to the woman, whose body disposes of the waste.
This continues 9 months...until the babe is completed development, and ready to be delivered forth from the womb...called BORN.
The babe, comes forth, with a gush of the placenta fluid.
The babe, is severed from the Placenta, cord cut.
Complete Formed body has accomplished pro-CREATION...
And same as ADAM...his body FORMED by the hand of God...
Once Completely Form-ED....and THEN...
God Blows IN the nostrils, HIS BREATH OF LIFE.
That “IS” an individual...CREATED and MADE manKIND of thing.
Created.....BLOOD LIFE, ie called LIFE of man (formed body)
Made.........SOUL LIFE, ie BREATH OF GOD

The BABE.....is named, and BOTH the Blood life of the BODY and the Soul life of Gods Breath....are called by the ONE same NAME.

God is in the business....OF KILLING BODY’S natural LIFE ... BLOOD.
And God is in the business....OF SAVING the SOUL LIFE...of DEAD Body’s...

Get’s more confusing, if one does not stay in the Order, Way, WHY, according to God.

GOD DID NOT, fertilize Mary’s seed.
GOD SENT His SEED to.......Mary’s WOMB...not her Fallopian tube, not her Ovary.......NEVER does scripture teach a CONCEPTION.
Scripture teaches.....a Pregnancy...Mary was CONCEIVED.
Conceived is simply having a developing babe IN A WOMB.

And when you think about it....ancient men, historical men, and modern men......(and even woman).....do not Know or Understand the step by step process of human reproduction.

Think about ancient men....and I will accredit UNMARRIED catholic men Clerics....trying to TEACH JESUS being a “natural” born “sinless’ Holy Son of God........FROM the Womb of a human, Sinful, Woman....
They couldn’t explain it, so...do the next best thing...while teaching to a crowd of illiterates who can not read....hold a conference...conclude what people will believe..........Mary was special, and herself naturally born sinless....AND ofcourse a lie, must create another lie of. HOW Mary was sinless, being born of a sinful woman’s womb.....It’s was an ancient created lie upon lie, repeated, becoming more elaborate, (Catholic doctrine Catechism, instilled, for centuries, and continues to this day....
And to this day, it can not be verified IN Scripture, but IS verified IN the Catechism....a catholics mans word being verified by a catholics mans word......the FRAUD.

 

[Wrangler]

How could he not be ? No options sorry .

Trinitarianism rests on mystical dualism, the principle that jettison's logic and asserts contradictions exist.

• There are no options and there are many options.
• Jesus is IN and at the same time, Jesus is OUT.
• Not only that, perniciously, Jesus is FULLY in and FULLY out.
• He's dead but only a part of him died.
• He was raised from the dead but he raised himself.

Trinitarians do not recognize figurative language IF it suits their doctrine. For instance, the tennis balls were with god in the beginning and the tennis balls were god. They 'see' how this is literally true (once you impose that 'tennis balls' are a WHO not a WHAT) but do not 'see' explicit Scripture, let alone implications of Scripture that could undermine their doctrine.

The biggest implication undermining the trinity doctrine is the many times God (in his unitarian nature) is juxtaposed with Jesus. The famous, 'God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son' does not invoke the trinitarian preferred 'father' but God - which ought to be read for emphasis, "God, in his unitarian nature." They have no response to this. They don't respond but ignore it, replacing unfavorable verses with favorable and ambiguous verses.

This demonstrates not only extreme intellectual dishonesty but psychologically disturbed, Cognitive Dissonance.

 

[Wrangler]

GOD DID NOT, fertilize Mary’s seed.

Where did the blood come from?