John 1:1 - Jesus is the Father or he's not the one true God?

[tigger 2]

JunChosen #999:
"The Scripture is very plain and so true! So why do Unitarians believe NOT the Bible???"
............................
Because "the Bible" is not a translation, but is the NT Greek text. Many additions and thousands of deletions have been made by translators. If we wish to find what the original inspired writers intended, we must recognize honest examinations of the NT Greek [and OT Hebrew] text.

Try to be a Berean.

 

[JunChosen]

Because "the Bible" is not a translation, but is the NT Greek text. Many additions and thousands of deletions have been made by translators. If we wish to find what the original inspired writers intended, we must recognize honest examinations of the NT Greek [and OT Hebrew] text.

Try to be a Berean.

The Bereans only had the Old Testament, whilst we have the WHOLE BIBLE!!!

Secondly, God is the Author of the Bible, and we can trust that every letter and every word in it is from God. (Matthew 5:17-18) The gall and audacity of man to try and omit Mark 16:9-20 is BECAUSE these so called theologians and learned men have no understanding whatsoever what these passages convey.

Thirdly, are you saying that our English Bible Translations is NOT God's WORD, BECAUSE you think there are words omitted and added upon the Bible therefor this makes you the authority??? Better read Revelation 22:18-19.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Jack]

JunChosen #999:
"The Scripture is very plain and so true! So why do Unitarians believe NOT the Bible???"
............................
Because "the Bible" is not a translation, but is the NT Greek text. Many additions and thousands of deletions have been made by translators. If we wish to find what the original inspired writers intended, we must recognize honest examinations of the NT Greek [and OT Hebrew] text.

Try to be a Berean.

Are you saying you're a Greek expert? That sounds like Kingdom Hall propaganda.

 

[Kermos]

JunChosen #999:

"The Scripture is very plain and so true! So why do Unitarians believe NOT the Bible???"

............................

Because "the Bible" is not a translation, but is the NT Greek text. Many additions and thousands of deletions have been made by translators. If we wish to find what the original inspired writers intended, we must recognize honest examinations of the NT Greek [and OT Hebrew] text.


Try to be a Berean.

@JunChosen and @Jack wrote beneficial responses to you, tigger 2, and here is more.

According to your assertion, you cannot have an accurate translation of the Bible. The Watchtower Society's New World Translation has a myriad of human-induced translational deceptions, and this fact can and has been proven using techniques mentioned below.

In reality, we have many ancient manuscripts of the Bible available for examination and cross referencing to determine accuracy of scribal duplication efforts.

For example, the Codex Sinaiticus dates to about 350 AD, and the facsimile is available online at Codex Sinaiticus - Home .

We have Greek manuscripts that predate the Roman Catholic Church.

The checks and balances for the source material of the Greek for the Bible results in accuracy.

We have accurate Greek manuscripts that result in accurate translations into English - but not always such as the intentionally corrupt New World Translation Bible.

Because God has preserved the Word of God, the Bible contains Truth (John 14:6).

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Word of God proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58) and the Word of God says "I will settle him in My house and in My kingdom forever, and his throne shall be established forever" (1 Chronicles 17:14), so according to the Word, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past and will exist in eternity future which means the Word is uncreated thus the Word proclaims that the Word is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past and future (Isaiah 45:5).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8) (see see the Truth [John 14:6] that God had me compose in post #283 to expose the deception of tigger 2 and Rich R).

 

[Wrangler]

Thirdly, are you saying that our English Bible Translations is NOT God's WORD, BECAUSE you think there are words omitted and added upon the Bible therefor this makes you the authority?

Do you believe no translation errors have ever been made?

Yes, I have more insight than my teachers, for I am always thinking of your laws.
Psalm 119:99

 

[JunChosen]

Do you believe no translation errors have ever been made?

Do YOU believe God wrote the Bible? And, if He did, would YOU believe God does everything perfectly? Don't YOU think He is capable to correct if there are errors in translations? Or, do YOU agree that it is man's interpretations of Scripture that are flawed!!! LOL

To God Be The Glory

 

[Wrangler]

Do you believe no translation errors have ever been made?

Do YOU believe God wrote the Bible? And, if He did, would YOU believe God does everything perfectly?

You cannot answer my question with a question Jun. Do you believe no translation errors have ever been made? It's a simple yes or no. Won't take you too much time to answer.

 

[Jack]

I don't know of any English Bible that doesn't declare Jesus to be God and Hell is eternal. Even the JW Bible admits both!

 

[Wrangler]

I don't know of any English Bible that doesn't declare Jesus to be God

There is not one Bible in any language that declares Jesus is God. Don't you think saying so is a little silly since it goes against Jesus' own words, that he has a God who is the only true God?

 

[Daydreamer]

J
Many solve the problem by finding out exactly what the "word" (logos) is in John 1:1. Hint: it's not Jesus.

.

Not sure if I understand exactly what you are looking for here, but my vote would go to the Holy Spirit

 

[Jack]

There is not one Bible in any language that declares Jesus is God. Don't you think saying so is a little silly since it goes against Jesus' own words, that he has a God who is the only true God?

Which Bible would you like me to quote? How about the JW's own NWT?

John 20:28 NWT
In answer Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God".

 

[tigger 2]

Which Bible would you like me to quote? How about the JW's own NWT?

John 20:28 NWT
In answer Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God".

............................................................................

Post of a trinitarian apologist to me: “The clearest example in the NT of the use of "God" for Jesus, Jn 20:28. Jesus is addressed as God (ho theos mou). The scene is designed to serve as a climax to the Gospel; as the resurrected Jesus stands before the disciples, one of their number at last gives expression to an adequate faith in Jesus.”
...........................................................
It is more likely that the phrase here is praise (doxology) or blessing of God in heaven. Notice that there is no complete statement here - there is no verb and predicate. These are omitted because the meaning is commonly understood by Christians and Jews at this time.

Furthermore, it cannot be an address to Jesus (or anyone else) as most trinitarians claim. This is made certain by the John’s use of kurios (“Lord” in the nominative case as used for subjects and predicate nouns). But in every instance in the NT the vocative case kurie is used for addressing “Lord.” For proof of this, see my personal study: Examining the Trinity: KURIE - All NT Uses of "Lord" in Address

As for the climax of John’s Gospel, the very end of this same chapter tells us:

verse 30) - “Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book;
verse 31) - “but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God” - John 20:19-31, RSV.

That’s where any honest statement of Jesus being God should be found - - - but it isn’t.

This is a small part of my own study (not the WT’s). Here’s the rest Examining the Trinity: MYGOD .

 

[Jack]

............................................................................

Post of a trinitarian apologist to me: “The clearest example in the NT of the use of "God" for Jesus, Jn 20:28. Jesus is addressed as God (ho theos mou). The scene is designed to serve as a climax to the Gospel; as the resurrected Jesus stands before the disciples, one of their number at last gives expression to an adequate faith in Jesus.”
...........................................................
It is more likely that the phrase here is praise (doxology) or blessing of God in heaven. Notice that there is no complete statement here - there is no verb and predicate. These are omitted because the meaning is commonly understood by Christians and Jews at this time.

Furthermore, it cannot be an address to Jesus (or anyone else) as most trinitarians claim. This is made certain by the John’s use of kurios (“Lord” in the nominative case as used for subjects and predicate nouns). But in every instance in the NT the vocative case kurie is used for addressing “Lord.” For proof of this, see my personal study: Examining the Trinity: KURIE - All NT Uses of "Lord" in Address

As for the climax of John’s Gospel, the very end of this same chapter tells us:

verse 30) - “Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book;
verse 31) - “but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God” - John 20:19-31, RSV.

That’s where any honest statement of Jesus being God should be found - - - but it isn’t.

This is a small part of my own study (not the WT’s). Here’s the rest Examining the Trinity: MYGOD .

Typical JW doctrine, "the Bible doesn't mean what it says. It means what the WatchTower says it means".

 

[tigger 2]

Typical JW doctrine, "the Bible doesn't mean what it says. It means what the WatchTower says it means".

........................................
Typical reply by low comprehension reader.

 

[Jack]

........................................
Typical reply by low comprehension reader.

If God isn't your Savior you don't have a Savior. See, I know more than you. And I know JW doctrine. Twist, Twist and more Twist!

Isaiah 43
11 I, even I, am the LORD, And besides Me there is no savior.

 

[Rich R]

Which Bible would you like me to quote? How about the JW's own NWT?

John 20:28 NWT
In answer Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God".

From Strong's Concordance:

G2316 θεός theos (the-os') n.
1. (properly, in Greek) a god or deity. a supernatural, powerful entity (real or imagined).
2. (by Hebraism, especially with G3588) God, the Supreme Being, the Creator, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, Yahweh by name.
3. (figuratively) a supreme magistrate (in the land).
​

We in the modern West tend to think of Yahweh and nobody else when we see the word "God." It wasn't like that in the Ancient Near East. They thought of someone with power and authority. I would say Jesus fit that description while remaining the son of God.

The word "son" means the offspring of a parent. A son can not be his own parent. God is Jesus' father and as such is called "the only true God" in both John 17:3 (by Jesus himself) and in 1 Cor 8:6. Sorry, but there is no "God the Son" to be found anywhere in the actual scriptures. We have to go outside the scriptures to find anything like that. Since the scriptures contain all the truth, why go outside of them to understand God? Forget the Athenasian Creed and go strictly with the scriptures and the truth will be made manifest. Otherwise we end up with a big plate of spaghetti!

 

[Justbobg]

The Son of God .

totally self explanatory , unless english is your 3rd language perhaps .
just keep repeating it until the light shines through. It’s a wonderful revelation.

 

[Jack]

The Son of God .

totally self explanatory , unless english is your 3rd language perhaps .
just keep repeating it until the light shines through. It’s a wonderful revelation.

John 20:28 NWT
In answer Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God".

 

[Pearl]

The Son of God .

totally self explanatory , unless english is your 3rd language perhaps .
just keep repeating it until the light shines through. It’s a wonderful revelation.

Jesus is absolutely more than just a man who is God's son. He is actually God incarnate, Immanuel - God with us.

 

[APAK]

John 20:28 NWT
In answer Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God".

Could you explain those 5 words you bolded with some context and commentary?

What would you think I meant if after a very bloody battle I assumed my beloved Prince lay dead on the battlefield and the battle was lost. And then to my joy and surprise to find out that not only my King brought in reinforcements and won the battle for my Prince, my Prince was also alive because of my King. And then later I saw the Prince with my own eyes, truly alive from the 'dead' and without a scratch on him. I then I cried out in tears, (for my) My Prince and my King!'

Is the Prince and the King the same person?