John 1:1 - Jesus is the Father or he's not the one true God?

[Rich R]

The Son of God .

totally self explanatory , unless english is your 3rd language perhaps .
just keep repeating it until the light shines through. It’s a wonderful revelation.

So you meant to say that Jesus is the son of God just because he is called that about 40 times? What a novel concept! Shouldn't the 0 times he is called God the Son mean he is God? I guess that's how the wayward reasoning goes. Don't go trying to make sense out of it. Just accept it by faith. Really? I'm thinking not. :)

Jesus is the son of God no matter if English is the 1st or 100th language. And we all know the difference between the words "father" and "son" and there is no indication that God changed those meanings in the scriptures. He knows a son can't be his own father. What's so hard about that?

 

[Behold]

Jesus is the son of God no matter if English is the 1st or 100th language. And we all know the difference between the words "father" and "son" and there is no indication that God changed those meanings in the scriptures. He knows a son can't be his own father. What's so hard about that?

Jesus is fully God and fully Man.
He's God wrapped in Human Flesh.
Before He had a man's Body, .. before Christ was the Bread come down from Heaven.....and before Jesus told us....>"you are from below, I am from ABOVE">.....>He was The WORD who is God..... John 1.

Some people find the reality of Jesus as "Pre-incarnate", impossible to understand, so they can only comprehend Him as "virgin born", man.

But Jesus is "GOD manifested in the FLesh"..... 1 Timothy 3:16

Genesis teaches ..>"Let US...... MAKE......man, in OUR IMAGE".

This is GOD and the pre-incarnate WORD, who later became "the WORD made Flesh".

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus is fully God and fully Man.

ME: What verse says that?

YOU:

 

[Behold]

ME: What verse says that?
YOU:

Here are the verses you requested.

1 Timothy 3:16

John 1:14.= (you'll have to read John 1:1 for the context of who is the WORD who was with God and Is God.)

 

[Wrangler]

Here are the verses you requested.

1 Timothy 3:16

John 1:14.= (you'll have to read John 1:1 for the context of who is the WORD who was with God and Is God.)

Neither verse says anything like what you claim. But that's typical for you.

Artificial Synthesis. Mean to justify any doctrine you want. HINT: You are invoking aritificial synetheis any time a verse is requested and more than one is provided where they must be "interpretted" a particular way.

Make a Blessed Day.

 

[Behold]

Neither verse says anything like what you claim. .

Sure they do.
That is why you didnt post the verses, and then lied.

Here let me do it for you..

1.) KJV. 1 Timothy 3:16 "GOD was manifested in the Flesh"

"manifested in the flesh means.>"born of a virgin", "Born as a human"......"GOD".


2.) John 1:14.. ."and the WORD became FLESH".....

Who is the WORD?.... =Jesus

When was He the WORD..?? This is Genesis ...."Let US make Man in OUR image"... See that? That is God and the pre-incarnate Jesus.

Jesus said, the WORDS i speak unto you.. ."they are Spirit and they are LIFE".

In John 1, you read that the WORD, was with God...... and WAS God.............Is. Jesus is the WORD made flesh.


Now look at one more, reader...

In John 20:22..... It says that Jesus BREATHED ON THEM........on the Apostles. (Not Judas).... and said."receive ye the Holy Spirit".

See that? That is GOD as CHRIST The Lord giving human beings the Holy Spirit of God.
ONLY GOD can do that..
Let me show you...
IN Genesis, when God made Adam, .. .God BREATHED into Adam..and Adam became a Living SPIRIT.

In John 20:22, JESUS who is God......BREATHED on them......and they received the SPIRIT..

See that? That is GOD in Genesis, and GOD in the John 20, doing the same thing., as only God can do it.

 

[Wrangler]

Sure they do.
That is why you didnt post the verses, and then lied.

Here let me do it for you..

1.) KJV. 1 Timothy 3:16 "GOD was manifested in the Flesh"

The whole reason the image/shown/manifest/form words are used is precisely because the man who is flesh is NOT God. Sad that you have to suppose a reflection is what it reflects. But I understand the desperation of your idolatry. Do you see proof that Jesus is God in the clouds, cornflakes and ink blots also?

 

[Behold]

The whole reason the image/shown/manifest/form words are used is precisely because the man who is flesh is NOT God. Sad that you have to suppose a reflection is what it reflects. But I understand the desperation of your idolatry. Do you see proof that Jesus is God in the clouds, cornflakes and ink blots also?

I see the Creation of God everywhere, in Nature.
Sure.
I know that God spoke through the Pre-Incarnate Word, who is Christ, later Jesus, virgin born, and made the world.
John 1:10
This is not "desperation" to believe that, it is just sound bible study coming to the knowledge of the Truth.

Thomas said " My Lord and my GOD" and he was not talking about the Pope.

Jesus said......"Before Abraham was, I AM". And the Pharisees wanted to kill Jesus for making Himself EQUAL with God. John 5.
So, these Christ denying hell bound devil's understood that Jesus is God, according to Jesus, but you, a supposed "christian" are clueless.
That's interesting isn't it, Wrangler.
Cult's can do that to you.
See Hebrews 13:9 for an update.

God used "I AM" as His description of Himself when talking to Moses from the burning bush.

 

[Wrangler]

Do you see proof that Jesus is God in the clouds, cornflakes and ink blots also?

I see the Creation of God everywhere, in Nature.

Not really what I asked, is it?

 

[Wrangler]

God used "I AM" as His description of Himself when talking to Moses from the burning bush.

1st, no. God did not say this. A bad translation might render it so generically)

2nd, a description is not unique but a personal name is. God said to Moses his personal name was not Jesus and that name he is to be remembered for all generations? Do you know the personal name of God?

 

[tigger 2]

Here are the verses you requested.

1 Timothy 3:16

John 1:14.= (you'll have to read John 1:1 for the context of who is the WORD who was with God and Is God.)

......................................
1 Tim. 3:16 is a false translation by reason of using a false text. Check it out.

 

[Rich R]

Here are the verses you requested.

1 Timothy 3:16

John 1:14.= (you'll have to read John 1:1 for the context of who is the WORD who was with God and Is God.)

If what you say is true we have a huge problem in the scriptures.

In John 17:3 Jesus made a clear declaration that only his Father (Yahweh) is the true God. Paul seconded that with the same clarity in 1 Cor 8:6. They would clearly contradict any verses that say Jesus, the son, is also God. There is a "God the Father" in 1 Cor 8:6, but a "God the Son" is missing in action, at least if we stick with the actual scriptures.

The question is: do we ignore John:17:3 and 1 Cor 8:6 to make Jesus God or do we ignore 1 Tim 3:16 and John 1:1 & 14 to not make him God?

There is actually a third choice. We make all the verses say the same thing. That means all have to say Jesus is God or he isn't God.

Since it would be difficult to make John 17:3 and 1 Cor 8:6 (and many other verses) say Jesus is God, perhaps look closely at the verses you quoted.

1Tim 3:16,

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
​

Virtually all scholars, Trinitarian included, agree that the original Greek text had the word "he who" instead of "God". Read the rest of the verse with that in mind and it makes way more sense. I mean God being received up into glory is just plain weird. Not so though with Jesus.

Both John 1:1 and John 1:14 use the word "logos" in Greek which is not "Jesus." Do research on the word "logos" for more understanding. Basically it means a plan that God had in mind in the beginning. Later that plan became personified in Jesus. Jesus was a perfect representation of God. Ah, but does being in the image of God mean Jesus would actually be God? Not at all. I'm thinking of

Col 1:15,

Who (Jesus) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
​

Well, if that makes Jesus God, then we all are Jesus and therefor all God.

2 Cor 3:18,

But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, [even] as by the Spirit of the Lord.​

We are being changed into God? I don't think so.

Rom 8:29,

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
​

We are to be conformed to the image of Jesus. Are we therefore exhorted to actually become Jesus? Of course not. Obviously being in the image of someone does not make us to be that someone. An image of anything is just that, an image. It is not the thing itself. Remember when Jesus asked whose "image" was on a coin? The answer was Caesar. Does that mean the coin was Caesar? Nobody would think that with the coin and Caesar, so why think that of Jesus and God?

 

[tigger 2]

Which Bible would you like me to quote? How about the JW's own NWT?

John 20:28 NWT
In answer Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God".

..................................................
Again, for the reading-impaired:

It is likely that the phrase here is a praise (doxology) or blessing of God in heaven. Notice that there is no complete statement here - there is no verb and predicate. These are omitted because the meaning is commonly understood by Christians and Jews at this time.

Furthermore, it cannot be an address to Jesus (or anyone else) as most trinitarians claim. This is made certain by the John’s use of kurios (“Lord” in the nominative case as used for subjects and predicate nouns). But in every instance in the entire New Testament the vocative case kurie is used for addressing “Lord.” For proof of this, see my personal study: Examining the Trinity: KURIE - All NT Uses of "Lord" in Address

As for the climax of John’s Gospel, the very end of this same chapter tells us:

verse 20:30) - “Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book;
verse 20:31) - “but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God” - John 20:19-31, RSV.

That’s where any honest statement of Jesus being God should be found - - - but it isn’t.

This is a small part of my own study (not the WT’s). Here’s the rest Examining the Trinity: MYGOD .

 

[APAK]

Here are the verses you requested.

1 Timothy 3:16

John 1:14.= (you'll have to read John 1:1 for the context of who is the WORD who was with God and Is God.)

You are kidding around, right?

Write a commentary on each of the 3 verses cited and compare and contract them with each other. It's worth 50 percent of your grade. Good luck, you will need it. And God will not help you on this one, I assure you.....maybe your triune version will assist?

One last thing, use an uncorrupted version of 1 Tim 3:16 (and the KJV is a corrupted version). It would be the decent and honest thing to do don't you think?

I wager you will not be able to write anything persuasive or educational, and you will duck and cover to another topic etc.

 

[Rich R]

verse 20:30) - “Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book;
verse 20:31) - “but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God” - John 20:19-31, RSV.

Maybe John's pen slipped...he meant to say, "but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is God."

I don't know, just trying to help the trinitarian cause. :)

 

[Behold]

Not really what I asked, is it?

Dont be sent into unrest because i didn't respond to your carnal question.

I am always here to help you, or to discuss something legit, and even argue if that is your need, which you seem to need, but, for the most part if someone posts a stupid photos because they can't deal with the discussion, or if they just want to be insulting.....i try to deflect that, and 90% of the time i will.
Not always, tho.

 

[Behold]

You are kidding around, right?

Write a commentary on each of the 3 verses cited and compare and contract them with each other. It's worth 50 percent of your grade. Good luck, you will need it. And God will not help you on this one, I assure you.....maybe your triune version will assist?
One last thing, use an uncorrupted version of 1 Tim 3:16 (and the KJV is a corrupted version). It would be the decent and honest thing to do don't you think?
I wager you will not be able to write anything persuasive or educational, and you will duck and cover to another topic etc.

You go ahead and place your bet, and i'll just create a short theological study because somewhere in your post was a type of question, i think.

1.) its easy to understand that Jesus is the Word made Flesh, who was the WORD who was with God and was God.
1 Timothy 3:16 <> John 1
its easy to understand that "Let US, make man in OUR Image", is not talking about just ONE : MAKER.
Apak....Even someone like you can understand "US" and "OUR" is : 2 (at least.)
Its not complicated to understand.....that the World was made Through Jesus, in John 1:10, and then read "God said, let there Be", and Christ pre-incarnate as the WORD, was the method of SPOKEN Creation, with the Holy Spirit being the Means as the Creative force.

2.) When you can see all that, and its not hard to see, unless you are trained by a cult to not see it....= then when you next read Thomas say that Jesus is "my GOD"< and when you then read and understand that The Breath that God breathed as the Spirit into Adam in Genesis, is the same JESUS the God Man who Breathed on the Apostles, and said...."receive ye the Holy Spirit"....
Its the same GOD, but one was with ADAM and one was named JESUS when He did this same thing with the 11 Apostles.. = only GOD can give the Holy Spirit, because God IS the Holy Spirit.... and Jesus just gave Him in John 20:22.. to the 11 Apostles... and that explains why Jesus is described in Colossians 1:16 as God.

So, all of that when meditated upon by the true student of the word, will allow them to understand that the Trinity is not a man made theological invention.

 

[Behold]

..................................................


That’s where any honest statement of Jesus being God should be found - - - but it isn’t.

John 1:10

Colossians 1:16

= Jesus

 

[tigger 2]

You go ahead and place your bet, and i'll just create a short theological study because somewhere in your post was a type of question, i think.

1.) its easy to understand that Jesus is the Word made Flesh, who was the WORD who was with God and was God.
1 Timothy 3:16 <> John 1
its easy to understand that "Let US, make man in OUR Image", is not talking about just ONE : MAKER.
Apak....Even someone like you can understand "US" and "OUR" is : 2 (at least.)
Its not complicated to understand.....that the World was made Through Jesus, in John 1:10, and then read "God said, let there Be", and Christ pre-incarnate as the WORD, was the method of SPOKEN Creation, with the Holy Spirit being the Means as the Creative force.

2.) When you can see all that, and its not hard to see, unless you are trained by a cult to not see it....= then when you next read Thomas say that Jesus is "my GOD"< and when you then read and understand that The Breath that God breathed as the Spirit into Adam in Genesis, is the same JESUS the God Man who Breathed on the Apostles, and said...."receive ye the Holy Spirit"....
Its the same GOD, but one was with ADAM and one was named JESUS when He did this same thing with the 11 Apostles.. = only GOD can give the Holy Spirit, because God IS the Holy Spirit.... and Jesus just gave Him in John 20:22.. to the 11 Apostles... and that explains why Jesus is described in Colossians 1:16 as God.

So, all of that when meditated upon by the true student of the word, will allow them to understand that the Trinity is not a man made theological invention.

...............................................

1 Tim. 3:16 is clearly an erroneous translation and it is easy to research it.

John 1:1c is a mistranslation in most Bibles, but not so easily researched. Examining the Trinity: John 1:1c Primer - For Grammatical Rules That Supposedly "Prove" the Trinity

Why not be a true student of the word and actually comment on my study as written rather than comments by other "scholars"?

 

[Behold]

...............................................

1 Tim. 3:16 is clearly an erroneous translation and it is easy to research it.

John 1:1c is a mistranslation in most Bibles, but not so easily researched. Examining the Trinity: John 1:1c Primer - For Grammatical Rules That Supposedly "Prove" the Trinity

When the devil really wants to get his point across, He cast's doubt on the Bible and sends in the Scholars.

"hath God said"? "can you really trust a bible"... "what about the Greek, isn't that the originals".

So, i guess you can continue your pretense, tigger 2, but, it'll fail., continually.