Are Jehovah's witnesses real Christians?

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Aunty Jane

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John Que and Jane Doe non-anointed JWs-- the hewers of wood and haulers
of water --remain connected to Christ only for as long as they remain
affiliated with the Watchtower Society.
The Watchtower Society prints Bibles and Bible literature...it is a legal entity required by law to do what it does on such a large global scale.
We are not the Watchtower Society....we are Jehovah's Witnesses.

When a JW is disfellowshipped or defects, they lose their connection, become lost souls, and in grave danger
of the Tribulation.
Yes, if someone among our dedicated body of believers defects, (turns apostate) or breaks God's laws unrepentantly, they will receive discipline....this is entirely scriptural and is not dictated by the loose times in which we live...God's standards are set in concrete. If any Jew broke God's law, there was a penalty.....and if the Christians did the same...there was also a penalty. ( 1 Corinthians 5:9-13) We have no fear or compunction to carry out God's instructions through his apostles......the churches of Christendom do have a problem with that because if they clamped down on willful sinners in their congregations the pews would be empty and who would pay the pastors stipend then?
We have no concentration on money because none of our elders are paid to do God's work....they "received free" so they "give free" as Jesus said to. How much does it cost for a minister to marry, bury or baptize people? How disgusting!

* Non JWs have no connection to Christ because it is only thru the "faithful and wise servant" that people gain access to God. In other words: the only defense against the wrath of God is conversion to the JW religion. (so they say)
Do we? It was Jesus who appointed the "faithful and wise servant" and it was part of his prophesy on the last days before his final judgment on this world. (Matthew 24:45) He was to rewards his slave for doing his job when he returned.
So who is he? He is assigned to "feed" Jesus' entire household, which means all must eat from the same table....the same food....spiritual nourishment. There is only one other table from which to feed according to Paul....
"You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons. You cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons." (1 Corinthians 10:21 ESV)
So because we have discerned who the slave is, and we eat at his table....that doesn't mean that everyone wants to.....the devil's stuff looks tasty....but it's poison. We can *eat* wherever we wish.....but if you are at the wrong table beware of food poisoning....its a poisoning of the mind and heart whilst the body lives on. It causes a specific type of blindness. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4)
 

Aunty Jane

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The passage below from the Watchtower Society's bible is deliberately
misquoted. Watch for the revision.

Ps 146:3-4 . . Do not put your trust in nobles, nor in the son of earthling
man, to whom no salvation belongs. His spirit goes out, he goes back to his
ground; in that day he loses awareness.

The actual passage says "his thoughts do perish" which is quite a bit
different than losing awareness.

The Hebrew word for "thoughts" in that passage is 'eshtonah (esh-to naw')
which means thinking. Unfortunately, Ps 146:4 is the only place in the entire Old
Testament where 'eshtonah appears so we can't compare its uses in other contexts.

According to Webster's the word "thinking" is ambiguous with quite a variety
of meanings to choose from; including, but not limited to: concerns,
anticipations, conceptions, opinions, imaginations, visualizations, ideas,
epiphanies, plans, schemes, fantasies, arguments, aspirations, deliberations,
and the like.

For the rich man in Jesus' parable at Luke 12:16-20; I would choose ideas,
plans, and schemes.

"I will say to my soul: Soul, you have many good things laid up for many
years; take your ease, eat, drink, enjoy yourself. But God said to him:
Unreasonable one, this night they are demanding your soul from you. Who,
then, is to have the things you stored up?"

For a contemporary example: consider all those people who perished in the
World Trade Center, and in the Japan and Indonesia tsunamis, and the Haiti
earthquake. None of them woke that day planning on it being their last on
earth. No, on the contrary; they had people to see, places to go, and things
to do: but before the day ended; whatever was on their itinerary lost its
importance-- their priorities went right out the window and became no more
significant than green cheese on the moon.

All their plans, their dreams, their schedules, their appointments, their
schemes, their problems, their ambitions, their loves, and their aspirations
went right down the tubes as they were suddenly confronted with a whole
new reality to cope with.

So then, an alternative to the Watchtower Society's interpretation is that
people don't lose awareness when they die; no, Ps 146:3-4 only means to
say that whatever was on their minds before they passed away is now null
and void.

Who on earth told you this? None of that is true...totally bogus.
 

Webers_Home

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Continued From No.689

All can have the holy spirit--The anointed get truths revealed through them that they
share at the proper time

There's something you will have to deal with sooner or later, so now is as
good a time as any.

I assume you are not one of those anointed folks. Well; if that's your current
spiritual condition, then according to 1John 2:26-27 the odds of your
avoiding seduction by the dark side of this world are very strong against
your coming out ahead of the game.

1Cor 11:14-15 . .Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of
light. It is therefore nothing great if his ministers also keep transforming
themselves into ministers of righteousness.
_
 
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Robert Gwin

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If you believed the Bible, you'd believe in the bodily resurrection of Christ. I honestly cannot believe that anyone can think Jesus was resurrected but not resurrected bodily. Just how was Thomas satisfied with his resurrection, sir? Was it not that he physically saw and felt the sides and wounds of our Lord?

John 20: Jesus and Thomas
24 Although Thomas the Twin was one of the twelve disciples, he wasn't with the others when Jesus appeared to them. 25 So they told him, “We have seen the Lord!”

But Thomas said, “First, I must see the nail scars in his hands and touch them with my finger. I must put my hand where the spear went into his side. I won't believe unless I do this!”

26 A week later the disciples were together again. This time, Thomas was with them. Jesus came in while the doors were still locked and stood in the middle of the group. He greeted his disciples 27 and said to Thomas, “Put your finger here and look at my hands! Put your hand into my side. Stop doubting and have faith!”

28 Thomas replied, “You are my Lord and my God!”

29 Jesus said, “Thomas, do you have faith because you have seen me? The people who have faith in me without seeing me are the ones who are really blessed!”

Why did Thomas not recognize him physically Wrangler?
 

Robert Gwin

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There's nothing to research mate..:)
We could say that satan and paganism has a hold on JW's by stopping them celebrating the birth of Jesus at Christmas, and stopping them celebrating his Resurrection at Easter..:)

Perhaps you might show it being celebrated in the Bible sir.
 

Robert Gwin

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Oestre is just a fictitious "goddess" who doesn't exist, yet JW's refuse to celebrate Easter because it resembles her name, therefore JW's are under the control of a non-existent deity who's stopping them celebrating Jesus's resurrection.
Mind you, she's a Kate Bush lookalike and quite a dish but not my type.:)-

View attachment 26401

As for Halloween, it's just a bit of harmless fun for kids, yet seems to upset the scaredy-cat JW's..;)
And as for celebrating the birthdays of family and friends, JW's don't even do that either!
Yes sir, easter is fictitional, therefore true Christians do not partake in reverence to her, I agree. Jehovah requires our teaching our children what He has taught us Deut 6:6,7 diligently I might add, teaching them to observe satanic traditions of course is not among them sir. But I am glad you are aware of that. Thank you for confirming to others, that we as God's people do not partake of those pagan rituals.
 

Robert Gwin

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You are very much different.

I can testify like Paul did about the Jews:

Romans 10
King James Version

10 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)

7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.


Superficially you appear as white as snow- but by denying the physical resurrection of Jesus from teh dead- you preach another gospel as Paul said in Galatians 1.

Never forget Ron, Paul was one of Jehovah's witnesses sir.
 

Robert Gwin

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No He doesn't! But Jesus is Gods redeemer- sent to mankind to redeem us from our sin! YOu should know that.

Really, did you just say God needed no redeemer? Think about what you are saying Ron. You are absolutely correct however that he is mankinds redeemer, perhaps I misunderstood your meaning sir. That I do know, was that your meaning?
 

Robert Gwin

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Confusion due to your failure to grasp agency.

Truman is credited with 'dropping the bomb' but another actually dropped the bomb. How is this explained? Is there some sort of mystical dualism where the 2 Beings are One? No, of course not!

Truman is the commander. He gave another the order to drop the bomb. The other is Truman's agent, acting on his behalf. Same with God, YHWH, who we relate to as Father. He planned for our redemption and Anointed another to do his bidding. This other Being is his servant, his agent, doing the actual work the Commander, the LORD of Heaven's Armies, Jesus' God ordained.

This is how language is used. It's how Biblical authors wrote and how we communicate today. Agency. So simple, even a trinitarian can understand it. :D

Doesn't your Bible repeatedly identify Jesus as servant? Who does he serve? Our Father, God for us.



I think this is semantics. You are right, of course.



Yes, semantics. To say Jesus is God's Redeemer, is not to say Jesus is redeeming God. Rather, it means that Jesus is God's agent, sent to redeem us.

Here in Jerusalem, Herod and Pontius Pilate got together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel. Then they turned against your holy Servant Jesus, your chosen Messiah.
Acts 4:27 CEV

I agree fully with your first reply Wrangler, Jesus is the means sent to redeem mankind Gen 3:15; Jn 3:16
 

Webers_Home

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Continued From No.703

FAQ: According to John 20:19 and John 20:26, Jesus was able to pass his
body through solid objects. How did he to do that?


REPLY: According to the Watchtower Society, that body wasn't actually
Jesus' crucified body. It was a so-called materialized body, i.e. a
supernatural avatar that Michael the archangel could construct and
deconstruct at will. In other words; in order to pass thru solid objects,
Michael reverted to his spirit form and on the other side, switched back to
the avatar.

Now: the Society's theory seriously questions the integrity of one of God's
holiest and most trusted angels because during the entire 40 days following
the resurrection, their Michael led his followers to believe his avatar was
Jesus' crucified body restored to life.

That, in my opinion, would be an unforgivable hoax because Jesus' followers
believed in him. To even suggest that Michael would pull that kind of wool
over their eyes is just downright outrageous coming from someone
acclaimed to be the truth. (John 1:17 & John 14:6)

* It disappoints me when folks professing to believe in miracles refuse to
accept that Christ was enabled to alter the structure of solid objects enough
to allow himself to pass thru unscathed. His passing thru solid objects is
actually easier to believe in our day than back then because we today have a
much better understanding of physical materials. It turns out that solid
objects aren't as solid as once believed. They consist of minute atomic
particles that, in the quantum sphere, have quite a bit of space separating
them one from another; and those particles are not inseparable.

John 1:3 . . All things came into existence through him, and apart from him
not even one thing came into existence.

Now the way I figure it: if the one who put this cosmos together was able to
do such a thing -- all its forms of life, matter, and energy --then it couldn't
be all that difficult for him to break it down, disassemble portions of it, and
then put it all back together again the way it was. Walking thru solid objects
would be child's play for someone wielding that kind of control over the laws
of nature.
_
 
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Dropship

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..We could say that satan and paganism has a hold on JW's by stopping them celebrating the birth of Jesus at Christmas, and stopping them celebrating his Resurrection at Easter..:)
Perhaps you might show it being celebrated in the Bible sir...
...Thank you for confirming to others, that we as God's people do not partake of those pagan rituals.

The Bible doesn't say to celebrate Jesus's birth and resurrection but so what? God gives us free choice to celebrate or not, and JW's have chosen not to, so calling Christmas and Easter "pagan" makes them candidates for the naughty step.
Anyway there's a raft of other things that JW's avoid such as crosses and crucifixes, tut-tut..
"The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God" (1 Corinthians 1:18)
 

Ronald Nolette

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Never forget Ron, Paul was one of Jehovah's witnesses sir.


No He was not- He was a bondslave and witness to Jesus! And as He was told from heaven, He exalted teh name of Jesus above every name!!! Not every other name like the New Word Mistranslation falsely writes.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Really, did you just say God needed no redeemer? Think about what you are saying Ron. You are absolutely correct however that he is mankinds redeemer, perhaps I misunderstood your meaning sir. That I do know, was that your meaning?


My meaning is simple. God needs no redeemer, But Yahweh the Father, the King of Israel, sent Yahweh of Hosts to be His redeemer for Israel! and the world! The father needs no redemption but Jesus is His redeemer in that the Father sent the Son.

Example. If I sent my son to the store to redeem all teh deposit bottles I saved up- He is my redeemer because I sent him to redeem the bottles on my behalf.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Repent and turn around- gets sin blotted out-Acts 3:19-- so your teachers are very confused on that matter. If Jesus death covered ones sins, there would be no reason they die and pay their own wages of sin, yet even the apostles died and paid their own wages of sin. There is a whole bible. Some will never have to taste death= the remaining little flock gets changed in the twinkling of an eye during the tribulation, and the great crowd will be brought through Armageddon on earth-Prov 2:21-22, Matt 24:22--those will never have to taste death.

YOu do not even know the Word of God!

Jesus died and physically rose to pay for all mankinds sin. But if you bothered to read teh rest of the call- One has to accept His death and physical resurrection in order to have that payment applied to their account!

And we physically dioe- because We are born with a sin nature and so inherit death from Adam!
 

tigger 2

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No He was not- He was a bondslave and witness to Jesus! And as He was told from heaven, He exalted teh name of Jesus above every name!!! Not every other name like the New Word Mistranslation falsely writes.
.................................................

"Other" is often understood when the NT text reads "all" or "every." Even this verse, which trinitarians like so much, is translated with "other" in the following trinitarian Bibles: CEV; ERV; GW; ICB; TLB; NOG; NCB; NCV; NLV; NLT; NRSV(UE) updated edition of NRSV - 2021; AT (Goodspeed); JB; NJB; Beck and C.B. Williams. With a little effort you can find many more similar examples.
 

Aunty Jane

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The Bible doesn't say to celebrate Jesus's birth and resurrection but so what? God gives us free choice to celebrate or not, and JW's have chosen not to, so calling Christmas and Easter "pagan" makes them candidates for the naughty step.
Anyway there's a raft of other things that JW's avoid such as crosses and crucifixes, tut-tut..
"The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God" (1 Corinthians 1:18)
It would be good to actually find out the reason why JW's refuse to be drawn into features of pagan worship. Have you never wondered why Christendom never invents its own celebrations? It always borrows elements from pagan religions and forces them to fit "Christianity" somehow....but what did Paul tell us about trying to blend paganism with true worship? Israel tried to do that a few times and God punished them most severely.

This scripture says it all for me....how could the apostle be clearer...? Especially in view of Israel's past excursions into false worship...?
He said....
"Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? 15 And what accord has Christ with Belial [the devil]? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? 16 And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said:

“I will dwell in them
And walk among them.
I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.”


17 Therefore

Come out from among them
And be separate, says the Lord.
Do not touch what is unclean,
And I will receive you.”
18 “I will be a Father to you,
And you shall be My sons and daughters,
Says the Lord Almighty.”


Can you see any license whatsoever for adopting pagan religious practices and simply imagining a thin veneer of Christianity draped over them?
This is serious...."unclean" (or tainted) worship is unacceptable to the Holy God. We are instructed to "come out from among them and be separate" by God himself as Paul is quoting the Hebrew scriptures here. (Isaiah 52:11) In order to be accepted as "sons and daughters" of the Almighty, we must separate ourselves from these things....not justify them.(1 Corinthians 10:21)

The two most important celebrations in Christendom are nothing but disguised pagan worship. The dates and the customs remain the same as their pagan ancestors practiced. It is clearly NOT OK with God. But the church will not ditch these things as it is the only times in the year that people are likely to attend church and along with that goes the contributions into the coffers.....it is nothing more than a cash cow. They know exactly where their celebrations originated.....and so does Yahweh.

As for the cross...? There is no "cross" in the Bible. The words translated "cross" in many Bibles are either "stauros" or "xylon" which means "an upright stake or tree". (Matthew 10:38; Acts 5:30)
Under Jewish law the bodies of executed criminals were hung on a stake as a warning to others not to engage in their practices. Jesus had to die on a stake to fulfill prophesy....
"Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree [xylon]”" (Deuteronomy 21:23).

If you do some research, you will see that the cross as a religious symbol pre-dates Christianity by centuries, and its origins are anything but holy.

Regardless of its configuration, when God gave his people the Ten Commandments, he told them NOT to even "make" an "image of anything" to use in worship. (Exodus 20:4)
But Christendom has made an idol of the cross as it is displayed on churches and even worn as jewellery. Regardless of how Jesus was executed, we are left to wonder why the instrument of his torture is so cherished......if Jesus had been hung, would there be images made of the gallows and a figure of Jesus swinging from the rope...? Can you imagine if it was in later times and he was executed by firing squad....would people have replicas of a rifle hanging around their necks? Can you not see how bizarre that would be....and yet they wear their crosses with pride.

It is Christ's death that released mankind from the curse of sin and death, not the instrument used to kill him.

The Romans had a variety of configurations for their instruments of torture.....the cross is just one of them, and there is no indication in the Bible what shape it took, except what is described...."stauros" or "xylon"....
images
images
images


The cross also has a connection to the false god Tammuz, whom the Israelites were influenced to worship in Ezekiel's day. The sacred tau was the letter "t" (with the cross piece lowered) which was first letter of his name. (Ezekiel 8:12-15)
In Sumerian text, Tammuz is called Dumuzi and is identified as the consort or lover of the fertility goddess Inanna (the Babylonian Ishtar or Easter who is honored by Christendom each year with her symbols of rabbits and eggs at the time when Christ's sacrifice was to be memorialized).

Christmas too was tied up with the worship of Mythra...all of the pagan customs were incorporated into what Christendom calls "Christ's Mass"....just to let you know where it comes from.
 
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Dropship

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It would be good to actually find out the reason why JW's refuse to be drawn into features of pagan worship.
...As for the cross...? There is no "cross" in the Bible. The words translated "cross" in many Bibles are either "stauros" or "xylon" which means "an upright stake or tree". (Matthew 10:38; Acts 5:30)...

1- Christianity over-wrote, squashed, trashed and stamped out paganism as surely as Kirk blasted this Vaal idol thing..:)-

ST-Vaal.jpg


2- As for crosses, a man hanging from a stake could live for days, but a man hanging from a cross would die quickly of suffocation if he couldn't push up with his legs to take the weight off his breathing muscles, that's why the gospels refer to the breaking of legs to hasten death, because they couldn't push up with broken legs.
 
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quietthinker

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Are Jehovah's witnesses real Christians?
Anybody who is a witness to Jehovah has something going for them. I'm of the understanding that Jesus took on that role. I am also have the decided impression that many who claim to be Jehovah's witnesses are really only witnessing to their own self absorption......because I don't get to know much if anything of the Jehovah claimed to be witnessed to.
 

Aunty Jane

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1- Christianity over-wrote, squashed, trashed and stamped out paganism as surely as Kirk blasted this Vaal idol thing..:)-
Who told you that? It sure doesn't agree with Paul's statement at 2 Corinthians 6:14-18. He says to touch nothing "unclean"...if you think that whitewashing pagan religious concepts is clean from God's standpoint....well, all the best with that. :ummm:
He punished Israel for trying to fuse Judaism with false religious practices.

2- As for crosses, a man hanging from a stake could live for days, but a man hanging from a cross would die quickly of suffocation, that's why the Bible refers to the breaking of legs to hasten death, because the victim could then no longer push up to take the weight off his arms and breathing muscles.
Since there is no sure way to know what configuration the implement of Christ's death took, we cannot be certain that it wasn't exactly like that described in the Bible.
images

This configuration would have had exactly the same outcome for the victim. Breaking the legs would prevent them from expanding their lungs by pushing up with their feet. Suffocation would soon follow. The fact that Jesus did not get his legs broken fulfilled prophesy. (Compare Psalm 34:20 with John 19:26)
 
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