Who can give an answer?

[BeyondET]

Hades =hell, Hades = the grave. Hades = Sheol, Sheol = the grave.
The Hebrew word for soul( Ne'phesh) translated-breath--the breath of life made one a living soul, not has a soul- Genesis 2:7-- All the living creatures in the water became living souls. Gen 1:24 says all living creatures become a soul.

That's not the only translation for soul.

 

[lightlysalted]

How ironic!! You went through your entire fabricated story, quoted the truth, and then ignored it.
Can you find the truthful answer, in the midst of all those words?

Here's the problem. The Truth is Bigger and more encompassing than our little minds can handle.
Expand your thinking.
Everyone always refers to Jesus as "a man" . But Jesus is MORE than a mere man. He is Universal.
People have a problem looking at things according to the flesh. None of this is carnal, it's ALL spiritual.
God created the earth and everything in it. Satan is trying to literally destroy everything God has created.
Jesus is Everything.
Right before they took him, He said, you would have no power except it be given you from above.
This was their hour of darkness. To destroy Everything.
We are HERE.

There is nothing we are going to be able to do except pray.
Everybody stuck in their own little bubble. They can't see the big picture.
Do you understand... LAW and ORDER... think about it.
Moses and Elijah are LAW and ORDER.

The world has been given over to the beast world. All those who only profess to be christians or have no belief or faith will fall under the mind control of the system. If you don't see it by now, you never will. It's time to wake up.
We have entered the tunnel and it's dark. And evil lurke in every corner.
But the light is at the end, which is the new beginning.
And only those who have oil in their lamps will survive to see it.

Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.

How many people in the bible used scripture to forecast prophecy?
They knew what was written so they didn't need to read from it daily.
You're all so stuck on the dotting of the I's and the crossing of the T's, you can't see beyond the ink on the paper.

Get out of your bubble.
We're going for one hell of a ride.
It's going to be COLD and FOOD is going to be a commodity for the next 2-3 years.
The Beast system has been given this power because of our own sins. We brought this upon ourselves.
Humanity is greedy and inhumane.
And we allowed it to happen by being asleep and content with others doing our work for us.
And they became powerful, and they became the masters.
We gave them our allegiance instead of God.

Jesus came to tell us what the end will be like. He IS prophecy.
His end is our end. And His renewal is our renewal. If we have faith.
But we have to go through this storm.
And we have Moses (LAW) and Elijah (ORDER) on our side.

And Law and Order is what will bring the beast to it's demise.

Think outside the box.
It's time to see what's really going on behind the veil.

Hugs

 

[Earburner]

Here's the problem. The Truth is Bigger and more encompassing than our little minds can handle.
Expand your thinking.
Everyone always refers to Jesus as "a man" . But Jesus is MORE than a mere man. He is Universal.
People have a problem looking at things according to the flesh. None of this is carnal, it's ALL spiritual.
God created the earth and everything in it. Satan is trying to literally destroy everything God has created.
Jesus is Everything.
Right before they took him, He said, you would have no power except it be given you from above.
This was their hour of darkness. To destroy Everything.
We are HERE.

There is nothing we are going to be able to do except pray.
Everybody stuck in their own little bubble. They can't see the big picture.
Do you understand... LAW and ORDER... think about it.
Moses and Elijah are LAW and ORDER.

The world has been given over to the beast world. All those who only profess to be christians or have no belief or faith will fall under the mind control of the system. If you don't see it by now, you never will. It's time to wake up.
We have entered the tunnel and it's dark. And evil lurke in every corner.
But the light is at the end, which is the new beginning.
And only those who have oil in their lamps will survive to see it.

Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.

How many people in the bible used scripture to forecast prophecy?
They knew what was written so they didn't need to read from it daily.
You're all so stuck on the dotting of the I's and the crossing of the T's, you can't see beyond the ink on the paper.

Get out of your bubble.
We're going for one hell of a ride.
It's going to be COLD and FOOD is going to be a commodity for the next 2-3 years.
The Beast system has been given this power because of our own sins. We brought this upon ourselves.
Humanity is greedy and inhumane.
And we allowed it to happen by being asleep and content with others doing our work for us.
And they became powerful, and they became the masters.
We gave them our allegiance instead of God.

Jesus came to tell us what the end will be like. He IS prophecy.
His end is our end. And His renewal is our renewal. If we have faith.
But we have to go through this storm.
And we have Moses (LAW) and Elijah (ORDER) on our side.

And Law and Order is what will bring the beast to it's demise.

Think outside the box.
It's time to see what's really going on behind the veil.

Hugs

More tons of words, having nothing to do with what is being talked about here.
I asked you a question, but you avoided it.
Again, can you find the truthful answer, that you quoted, but then neglected it?

 

[lightlysalted]

More tons of words, having nothing to do with what is being talked about here.
I asked you a question, but you avoided it.
Again, can you find the truthful answer, that you quoted, but then neglected it?

Answer to what?
You notice only Jesus was changed before them? doesn't say Moses and Elijah were glowing too.
Moses and Elijah represent Law and Order which in this present time is being attacked.
These are the two candlesticks that stand before the Lord.
But they're going to come back with a vengeance.

Pro 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:

Job 10:22 A land of darkness, as darkness itself; and of the shadow of death, without any order, and where the light is as darkness.

Jer 16:10 And it shall come to pass, when thou shalt shew this people all these words, and they shall say unto thee, Wherefore hath the LORD pronounced all this great evil against us? or what is our iniquity? or what is our sin that we have committed against the LORD our God?
Jer 16:11 Then shalt thou say unto them, Because your fathers have forsaken me, saith the LORD, and have walked after other gods, and have served them, and have worshipped them, and have forsaken me, and have not kept my law;
Jer 16:12 And ye have done worse than your fathers; for, behold, ye walk every one after the imagination of his evil heart, that they may not hearken unto me:
Jer 16:13 Therefore will I cast you out of this land into a land that ye know not, neither ye nor your fathers; and there shall ye serve other gods day and night; where I will not shew you favour.

Never Forget.

911 was an inside job.
So was the attack on the Capital.
Payback is a _____.
hugs

 

[Earburner]

Answer to what?
You notice only Jesus was changed before them? doesn't say Moses and Elijah were glowing too.
Moses and Elijah represent Law and Order which in this present time is being attacked.
These are the two candlesticks that stand before the Lord.
But they're going to come back with a vengeance.

Pro 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:

Job 10:22 A land of darkness, as darkness itself; and of the shadow of death, without any order, and where the light is as darkness.

Jer 16:10 And it shall come to pass, when thou shalt shew this people all these words, and they shall say unto thee, Wherefore hath the LORD pronounced all this great evil against us? or what is our iniquity? or what is our sin that we have committed against the LORD our God?
Jer 16:11 Then shalt thou say unto them, Because your fathers have forsaken me, saith the LORD, and have walked after other gods, and have served them, and have worshipped them, and have forsaken me, and have not kept my law;
Jer 16:12 And ye have done worse than your fathers; for, behold, ye walk every one after the imagination of his evil heart, that they may not hearken unto me:
Jer 16:13 Therefore will I cast you out of this land into a land that ye know not, neither ye nor your fathers; and there shall ye serve other gods day and night; where I will not shew you favour.

Never Forget.

911 was an inside job.
So was the attack on the Capital.
Payback is a _____.
hugs

Jesus told them beforehand what they would see during his transfiguration
What you quoted IS THE ANSWER, but then you side tracked yourself:
"I would venture to say that some "Spirits" have multiple existences.
That some even go up and down the ladder from time to time to intervene in humanity.
Jhn 1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.
Edit: many cannot accept the truth of it, because they have been indoctrinated with foul and false preconceived thoughts, so that they can promote a false millennial view. It's their big filter, that all scripture must be interpreted through it.

"Denominational doctrines should never establish discernment over scripture, but rather it is scripture that shall establish discernment over doctrines."- Earburner

 

[Earburner]

You're all so stuck on the dotting of the I's and the crossing of the T's, you can't see beyond the ink on the paper.

I am a Spirit led/Word Christian who is born again.
Yes, there are many in "church-ianity" who are only Word Christians. Many love the historical Jesus, and follow Him in like manner, but few are there that love the Spiritual Jesus, who follow Him through His resurrection. Philippians 3:10. Let that digest with Zechariah 4:6
Zech.4[6] Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.
"Might"- internal human fortitude/effort of study.
"Power"- external religious army/persuasion.
"By my Spirit - His Holy Spirit. John 16:13.

 

[farouk]

Funny how there were 3 talking.. Jesus, Moses, and Elijah. And 3 were with Jesus. Peter, James, and John.
And he asked if they should make tabernacles for them.
Tabernacles...
2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

There were 3 that came to Abraham. The Lord and two other messengers and they were sent to Sodom to check out the scenery.
Just a couple days later, Jesus, James and John are headed to Jerusalem.
I find it interesting that Elijah's name comes up after they just witnessed them days prior.

Luk 9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?

We also know that Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed by fire falling from heaven.

I would venture to say that some "Spirits" have multiple existences.
That some even go up and down the ladder from time to time to intervene in humanity.
Jhn 1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

Why did Moses and Elijah meet Jesus on the mountain?
Why was Peter, James and John allowed to witness that meeting?
Why would Peter think they would need tabernacles? Were they in flesh or spirit form?

Mar 9:2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.
Mar 9:3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.
Mar 9:4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.

So it's after the 6th day.. that would be the 7th day right?

Deu 16:16 Three times in a year shall all thy males appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose; in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles: and they shall not appear before the LORD empty:
Deu 16:17 Every man shall give as he is able, according to the blessing of the LORD thy God which he hath given thee.

So Jesus is heading towards Jerusalem and it's the Feast of unleavened bread.
And all males must appear before the Lord in the place that he chooses on these specific days (nights)
Thus it becometh us to to fulfil all righteousness... which is what Jesus told John the Baptist prior to his being baptized with water.
Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

So were Moses and Elijah simply fulfilling the law?

I'm sure someday we'll have all the answers.
Today is still fun searching them out.

Hugs

Hi @lightlysalted It's interesting how Moses and Elijah were seen with the Lord Jesus at His transfiguration.

Interesting also how the righteousness of God without the law is noted in Romans 3 as being 'witnessed by the law and the prophets': i.e., parts of the OT identified with Moses and Elijah respectively.

cc @1stCenturyLady

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I ask again....Do you know why Elijah & Moses were chosen of all the OT faithful to encourage Jesus before his crucifixion? Mark 9

This question and its answer is precisely why this below thread is essential for the Christian to learn and follow.

I will send my messenger

Give it a go...I'll be very surprised if a correct answer can be gleaned - one thing is for sure the JW cannot answer it!

I haven't read what came before, but here is my answer.

They represented the Law and the Prophets. Now God is telling the disciples about Jesus to "Listen to Him." Then Moses and Elijah disappeared and only Jesus was left. The New Covenant replaces the Law and the Prophets because Jesus fulfilled all.

cc: @farouk

 

[Earburner]

I haven't read what came before, but here is my answer.

They represented the Law and the Prophets. Now God is telling the disciples about Jesus to "Listen to Him." Then Moses and Elijah disappeared and only Jesus was left. The New Covenant replaces the Law and the Prophets because Jesus fulfilled all.

Your understanding is by human effort and speculation, aka by way of the natural man/mind.
Do you not know how to access the mind of Christ that is within you? Most don't. 1 Corinthians 2:16.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Your understanding is by human effort and speculation, aka by way of the natural man/mind.
Do you not know how to access the mind of Christ that is within you? Most don't. 1 Corinthians 2:16.

I'm sure you would like that to be the case instead of the other way around.

You would have to have the Holy Spirit and mature fruit to see the truth and have the mind of Christ. He was more mature in love than your posts I've seen. Please be more kind. Thank you. And not just to me but everyone.

 

[lightlysalted]

Interesting also how the righteousness of God without the law is noted in Romans 3 as being 'witnessed by the law and the prophets': i.e., parts of the OT identified with Moses and Elijah respectively.

There is a verse:
2Co 1:19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.

The Old Law had both yea's and nay's. Thou shalt and thou shalt not's.
The New Law doesn't have nay's.
The New Law says thou shalt Love God with all thy heart and mind and soul, which cover the first 4 commandments.
And Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. The remaining 6 commandments.
There is no room for nay's here.

That means you are ONLY allowed to love thy neighbor as thyself. There is no other option.
Jesus' whole message is about forgiving one another, not having hate in your heart, etc.
But when the Old Law was given there was "negative" vibes. The shalt not's.
The Old law said if you don't do this, there will be a punishment.
The New law says if you do this, there will be a reward.

The Righteousness of God.
Righteousness.
The Right Way. The Just Way. The Truthful Way. The Loving Way.

Judgement was in the world before there ever was a law written.
Judgement from the very first bite.
The prophets told the people's of the consequences there would be for their actions.
They showed them the writing on the wall before there was a wall to write on.

How did Jacob prophecy about the future of his sons? How did he know what would become of their lineage?
Can you look at your children and see generations down the line what they're offspring will become?
Interesting, almost like having a looking glass or a crystal ball.

We been here before.
The only law we need to survive is Love.
And the world today is filling up with hate very quickly.
The only way to be able to tell the sheep from the goats is if they have any love left in their hearts.

Save the Children.
God Bless us all
hugs

 

[lightlysalted]

Jesus told them beforehand what they would see during his transfiguration
What you quoted IS THE ANSWER, but then you side tracked yourself:
"I would venture to say that some "Spirits" have multiple existences.
That some even go up and down the ladder from time to time to intervene in humanity.
Jhn 1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.
Edit: many cannot accept the truth of it, because they have been indoctrinated with foul and false preconceived thoughts, so that they can promote a false millennial view. It's their big filter, that all scripture must be interpreted through it.

"Denominational doctrines should never establish discernment over scripture, but rather it is scripture that shall establish discernment over doctrines."- Earburner

Well, that's because of the theory of reincarnation.
I don't have an issue with it. I believe we have all been here before.
Can you see Artificial Intelligence? What does it look like?
Does it have a body or a figure of some sort?
Could it be considered spiritual in a sense, that it is not a material entity?
Is God, AI?

Are we just characters in a program, on a continual loop?
What about the City of Atlantis, did it exist? Who made the pyramids, and how are they perfectly aligned with the stars?
There are lots of questions, lots of speculations.
What are demons? And are they running the world today? Sure seems like it.
Can we cast them out? What is it that casts out evil? Love.
What is Love? Where did it come from? Why do some people not seem to have it?
Is AI capable of emotions?
Can it reason in itself right from wrong?
Where did God come from?
And why are we here.

All the answers are written in the Bible. (maybe not Atlantis) then again....
If one believes in an eternal hell, is one still living? Do they have a physical body?
I believe some here on earth live in heaven and hell. Some days you can be in both at the same time.
But the choice is your own. How you react to situations.
Are we just figments of God's imagination?

I believe in reincarnation, but not like traditional. We go around in cycles.
And maybe we all get to taste a bit of the good life and a bit of the bad.
That way we learn what is the difference between good and evil.
You have to experience it to truly know it.

We're coming to another end of an age. And we will probably nuke ourselves and what will be left is what it looks like in Jeremiah chapter 6.
And some will escape and survive and the knowledge we have today is what we will have in the next world.
Not the technology because the ones that will survive will be the farmers and the hunters, and the simple folk.
And we'll know how to make bread and make a wheel. And we'll promise to not know war anymore.
Until one day, Cain meets Able in the field, and it all begins again.

Just thoughts...

hugs

 

[Jack]

I ask again....Do you know why Elijah & Moses were chosen of all the OT faithful to encourage Jesus before his crucifixion? Mark 9

This question and its answer is precisely why this below thread is essential for the Christian to learn and follow.

I will send my messenger

Give it a go...I'll be very surprised if a correct answer can be gleaned - one thing is for sure the JW cannot answer it!

Of course JW's can answer. Just give them time to consult with Kingdom Hall.

 

[quietthinker]

Who can give an answer?
Could it be that 'answers' lie in left field?
Could it be that 'donkeys' need to speak before we listen?
Could it be that our 'neat and tidy' theology is a hinderance for access to the heart?
Could it be that unless self honesty is awakened and questions asked that even if we were given the right answers we wouldn't hear them?
Could it be that the answer is preferred crucified because it doesn't suit us?
Could it be that our dimming lamps are not recognised as such until they go out?

 

[Earburner]

I'm sure you would like that to be the case instead of the other way around.

You would have to have the Holy Spirit and mature fruit to see the truth and have the mind of Christ. He was more mature in love than your posts I've seen. Please be more kind. Thank you. And not just to me but everyone.

Truth is kind, but it is abrasive to lies. Lies do not like to be abraded by the truth, and as a result, "friction" is caused, when the lies attempt to resist the abrasion by the truth.

Jas.3[17] But the wisdom [truth] that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle [aka kind], and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

How is that for Christian love and maturity?
Was I being too abrasive?
Or, would you rather not hear the truth?

 

[Earburner]

Well, that's because of the theory of reincarnation.
I don't have an issue with it. I believe we have all been here before.
Can you see Artificial Intelligence? What does it look like?
Does it have a body or a figure of some sort?
Could it be considered spiritual in a sense, that it is not a material entity?
Is God, AI?

Reincarnation??
Let's hear the biblical truth about that.
When Adam was created, he became a living soul, he didn't receive a living soul. KJV- Genesis 2:7.
As a result, he and all of us do not have eternal existence of any kind. Our fleshly existence is equal to that of animal life. See also KJV- Genesis 6:17, Genesis 7:21-22.

In Genesis, the Hebrew word for "soul" is "nephesh", which means "animal life".
KJV- Genesis 3:19 declares our origin, and Genesis 3:22-24 declares our current condition. In our physical birth, we are 100% void of any kind of eternal existence, whatsoever.

As for the angels, they are a separate order of creation by God. They are separate from human beings altogether. They are not "reincarnated" into humans, nor are humans "reincarnated" into angels.

 

[Scott Downey]

For it is appointed unto to men to die ONCE . The two witnesses are actually KILLED .
Moses already died once soon after he saw the promised land at a distance . We dont die then come back and then die again .
Even when it says Elijah , it simply means that same spirit that was on elijah . It was not like JOHN was ELIJAH reborn .
ITs in the SPIRIT OF elijah . YET its the HOLY SPIRIT that was on elijah . Just as Moses wont die again .
It might have been considered , BUT it clearly says THE two witnesses will be KILLED . SO that rules out MOSES
We dont die twice . ITs only appointed unto men to die once then cometh the Judgment .
I Honestly have no idea who the two witnesses will be . BUT THERE WILL BE TWO WITNESSES
the two golden candlesticks might be a hint . Who are these two golden candelsticks which empty themselves .......
THE TWO ANNOINTED ONES . IT MIGHT be them . BUt who they are , I have no idea . BUT woe to the world
through the plagues they will bring down . That i can say . WHOEVER they are , THEY GONNA reign down plagues and etc
and be in sack cloth and ash . A message of REPENTANCE as we see sack cloth and ash was often assoicated with that
AS well as with suffering .

What then happened to those Christ resurrected from the dead during His time on earth?
And what of those who came out of their tombs, who lived again after his crucifixion?

One possibility, they all ascended with Christ when He ascends in Acts 1.
The other is Hebrews 9 is just a general appointment of men, and not specific for certain excepted individuals.

How about the OT and Elijah and the young boy?
2 Kings 4:18–20, 32–37
When the [Shunammite woman’s] child had grown, he went out one day to his father among the reapers. And he said to his father, “Oh, my head, my head!” The father said to his servant, “Carry him to his mother.” And when he had lifted him and brought him to his mother, the child sat on her lap till noon, and then he died. . . .

When Elisha came into the house, he saw the child lying dead on his bed. So he went in and shut the door behind the two of them and prayed to the Lord. Then he went up and lay on the child, putting his mouth on his mouth, his eyes on his eyes, and his hands on his hands. And as he stretched himself upon him, the flesh of the child became warm. Then he got up again and walked once back and forth in the house, and went up and stretched himself upon him. The child sneezed seven times, and the child opened his eyes. Then he summoned Gehazi and said, “Call this Shunammite.” So he called her. And when she came to him, he said, “Pick up your son.” She came and fell at his feet, bowing to the ground. Then she picked up her son and went out.

------------------------------------------------------
17 Now it happened after these things that the son of the woman who owned the house became sick. And his sickness was so serious that there was no breath left in him. 18 So she said to Elijah, “What have I to do with you, O man of God? Have you come to me to bring my sin to remembrance, and to kill my son?”

19 And he said to her, “Give me your son.” So he took him out of her arms and carried him to the upper room where he was staying, and laid him on his own bed. 20 Then he cried out to the Lord and said, “O Lord my God, have You also brought tragedy on the widow with whom I lodge, by killing her son?” 21 And he stretched himself out on the child three times, and cried out to the Lord and said, “O Lord my God, I pray, let this child’s soul come back to him.” 22 Then the Lord heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came back to him, and he revived.

23 And Elijah took the child and brought him down from the upper room into the house, and gave him to his mother. And Elijah said, “See, your son lives!”

 

[Scott Downey]

2 Kings 2:1, 11
2 When the Lord was about to take Elijah up to heaven in a whirlwind, Elijah and Elisha were on their way from Gilgal...

11 As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.

We are made in God's image. That is we have a mind, will, emotions, with creative abilities and a spirit. Evidently God allowed both Enoch and Elijah up to heaven/paradise.
Enoch taken/ translated:
KJV
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. Hebrews 11:15

NKJV
By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, “and was not found, because God had taken him”; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God. Hebrews 11:15



I did not say that. But you must realize that the Holy Spirit came upon the Prophets, spoke through them, performed miracles through them. How else would the Word of God be written exactly, word for word as God instructed? The Holy Spirit dwelled in the Temple, but is omnipresent.
Time is a part of our physical dimension. So Christ's sacrifice was imputed to Old Testamnet saints, outside of time. We live in a tension between the ready and not yet. I don't know for sure; but people have been allowed to visit heaven and so evidently their visit was extended. Maybe this is why Elijah must come back and die - Enich too?


Paradise ... heaven, likely the same location. Remember in the Old Testament, the afterlife was divided into two realms, Hades and Paradise (some called it Abraham's bosom.) Was paradise actually just another name for heaven? Heaven is where God's throne is but also is described as looking like a perfect earth, very colorful.. In Luke 16, we read the story of the Rich man and Lazarus. Jesus promised the dying man next to Him on a cross that he would be in Paradise - TODAY. Jesus, when died and rose,, opened the gates of heaven and brought the OT saints there.

No one ascended to heaven before Christ came, which is what Christ said.
The text says heaven, but also what part of heaven exactly, we cant assume the same heaven Christ speaks of, or it creates a severe conflict.
John 3:13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

And Paradise, Jesus descended into the lower parts of the earth at His death. Paradise was not in heaven at all, it was Abraham's bosum. This is where HE and the thief next to Him on the cross went when they both died.

Luke 23:42-44 New King James Version
42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”
43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

We read later, after Christ is ascended, Paradise is up in heaven. But before that, Paradise was right next to the fiery torments. Both simply places where those who died went after death. So a compartment of Hades-Hell, but a pleasant place. Since no one Jesus said has ascended into heaven except Himself.

We know where Christ went after death on the cross, he descended in Hell, Hades and also proclaimed Himself to them in that place.

There are several ideas about Elijah being taken up, one is Elijah was caught up into the heavens, actually above the earth and then moved to another location and lived on.
How did Elijah send a letter to King Jehoram, if Elijah had already been taken to heaven? | GotQuestions.org

 

[1stCenturyLady]

How is that for Christian love and maturity?
Was I being too abrasive?
Or, would you rather not hear the truth?

Sarcasm is still immature fruit. You have great contempt for everyone.

 

[farouk]

Sarcasm is still immature fruit. You have great contempt for everyone.

@1stCenturyLady I love the spirit of Philippians - even though I don't attain to it................