What Are we Getting Saved From?

[Taken]

Where in the Bible does it mention people/angels being forever separated from God? Where do you get that idea from? It is not possible for you to be separated from God, except by your Gods destruction.

People are not angels.
Angels are not people.

If you have discovered the Exception for People, okay.
Angels are spirits. Spirits do not die.

Some Demonic fallen Angels have been sent to the lake of fire of Hell.
There is a “shaft” type thing, with a door, with a key, that leads to the lowest part of hell, the bottomless pit, doom, gloom, in Greek called Tartarus, is their
...END Judgement......


Unbelieving Departed souls of men have been sent to Hell.
(Soul life of a man shall return to God and the soul and body destroyed)
....an END Judgement. They remembered no more.

 

[Jack]

Samuel (accepted) tells King Saul (rejected) “you and your sons will be here with me”
all go to the same place.
no one has ever gone up to heaven…
there is only One Immortal
he who seeks to save his soul will lose it
and that Gehenna is xlated as “hel” in the first place, when Gehenna is on earth; surely an import by anglo-saxon scribes, who just had no better word, “hell was imported into the Bible by anglo-saxon scribes” should do for a search there, although like any web-search its prolly 90% junk

Please stop implying the Jesus is a liar!
Matthew 5 Whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.

 

[bbyrd009]

Please stop implying the Jesus is a liar!
Matthew 5 Whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.

you lost me there, sorry
not sure how to relate any of that to my post

 

[Jack]

you lost me there, sorry
not sure how to relate any of that to my post

My comment is related to the subject of this thread.
"What Are we Getting Saved From"

 

[bbyrd009]

My comment is related to the subject of this thread.
"What Are we Getting Saved From"

well Jack, im pretty sure its more like "the next calamity," and i doubt that Jesus came so that you might have Death, More Abundantly...but if you have any other vv along those lines, lets take a look :)

 

[Jack]

well Jack, im pretty sure its more like "the next calamity," and i doubt that Jesus came so that you might have Death, More Abundantly...but if you have any other vv along those lines, lets take a look :)

Ok, let's take a look at what Jesus said, referring to humans, the same EXACT fate of Satan, "forever and ever".
Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

 

[bbyrd009]

Ok, let's take a look at what Jesus said, referring to humans, the same EXACT fate of Satan, "forever and ever".
Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

there is no "forever" in that parable anywhere, Jack, but i would mostly suggest that the timing of when the son of man shall come in His glory is being assumed as "tomorrow" there, when it may not be.

 

[Jack]

there is no "forever" in that parable anywhere, Jack, but i would mostly suggest that the timing of when the son of man shall come in His glory is being assumed as "tomorrow" there, when it may not be.

What parable? You should read about Abraham, Moses and Lazarus in the Bible. They are REAL Biblical people.

 

[bbyrd009]

What parable? You should read about Abraham, Moses and Lazarus in the Bible. They are REAL people.

so, possibly not a parable, but written in the same poetic language as the first two in the chapter. Anyway, you are completely free to believe that that is the point of the passage if you like, Jack; i just dont think so, taking all of the straightforward passages into account. I mean dont get me wrong, i believed that for like forty years, but imo it just doesnt test out, like trying to make Lazarus into a real person

 

[Jack]

so, possibly not a parable, but written in the same poetic language as the first two in the chapter. Anyway, you are completely free to believe that that is the point of the passage if you like, Jack; i just dont think so, taking all of the straightforward passages into account. I mean dont get me wrong, i believed that for like forty years, but imo it just doesnt test out

Belief in the "everlasting fire" that Jesus CLEARLY taught is not required for residency therein.
Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

 

[Jack]

so, possibly not a parable, but written in the same poetic language as the first two in the chapter. Anyway, you are completely free to believe that that is the point of the passage if you like, Jack; i just dont think so, taking all of the straightforward passages into account. I mean dont get me wrong, i believed that for like forty years, but imo it just doesnt test out, like trying to make Lazarus into a real person

Poetic? lol Is John 3:16 poetic? Do you just pick the parts you like to be literal?

 

[bbyrd009]

Belief in the "everlasting fire" that Jesus CLEARLY taught is not required for residency therein.

ha well to that i agree, but it also doesnt require that it happen in the future, nor be literal fire even. Not saying that it isnt, either, but it just comes to fit with whatever perspective you currently hold, i guess.

Poetic? lol Is John 3:16 poetic?

truly, we all define every single word differently speaking in tongues and while there are commentaries that would guide us in what is poetic language and what is not in the Bible, they strike me as mostly subjective? I guess there is some consensus

No, idt John 3:16 is poetic, so much as…meant to be interpreted differently, depending upon ones perspective? If you define only begotten son differently from me—for instance—then it would of necessity alter your belief system, right? And imo beliefs are meant to evolve. too.

Do you just pick the parts you like to be literal?

probably?
ha but srsly who wouldnt embrace the opportunity to become an immortal, and go up to heaven after they have died? Knowledge brings sorrow it was not easy to change, ok, meaning most of my definitions were challenged one at a time, and only reluctantly changed, from the ones you pretty much hold right now

 

[Jack]

ha well to that i agree, but it also doesnt require that it happen in the future, nor be literal fire even. Not saying that it isnt, either, but it just comes to fit with whatever perspective you currently hold, i guess.
truly, we all define every single word differently speaking in tongues and while there are commentaries that would guide us in what is poetic language and what is not in the Bible, they strike me as mostly subjective? I guess there is some consensus

No, idt John 3:16 is poetic, so much as…meant to be interpreted differently, depending upon ones perspective? If you define only begotten son differently from me—for instance—then it would of necessity alter your belief system, right? And imo beliefs are meant to evolve. too.

probably?
ha but srsly who wouldnt embrace the opportunity to become an immortal, and go up to heaven after they have died? Knowledge brings sorrow it was not easy to change, ok

I'm glad you agree with Jesus' "everlasting fire".

 

[quietthinker]

What Are we Getting Saved From?
Denominationalism? I'll prove that I am right ism? Pain in the neck ism?

 

[keithr]

keithr said:
Where in the Bible does it mention people/angels being forever separated from God? Where do you get that idea from? It is not possible for you to be separated from God, except by Gods destruction.​

Please don't change what I wrote when you quote me. I did not write "God's destruction", I wrote "your destruction". God cannot be destroyed because he is immortal.

Angels are spirits. Spirits do not die.

Jesus was a spirit, and he died. Revelation 1:18 (WEB):

(18) and the Living one. I was dead, and behold, I am alive forever and ever. Amen. I have the keys of Death and of Hades.​

Some Demonic fallen Angels have been sent to the lake of fire of Hell.

They haven't been cast (symbolically) into the lake of fire yet! And it is not in hell - hell will be cast into the lake of fire - Revelation 20:14 (KJV):

(14) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.​

There is a “shaft” type thing, with a door, with a key, that leads to the lowest part of hell, the bottomless pit, doom, gloom, in Greek called Tartarus, is their
...END Judgement......

The fallen angels are not eternally punished by being kept in darkness in Tartarus. They have been imprisoned there to await their judgement.
2 Peter 2:4 (WEB):

(4) For if God didn’t spare angels when they sinned, but cast them down to Tartarus, and committed them to pits of darkness to be reserved for judgment;​

Unbelieving Departed souls of men have been sent to Hell.

Everyone, god or bad, believers and unbelievers, go to hell (sheol/hades) when they die.

(Soul life of a man shall return to God and the soul and body destroyed)
....an END Judgement. They remembered no more.

Those judged undeserving of eternal life suffer the second death. They are not left alive and just ignored!

 

[keithr]

Samuel (accepted) tells King Saul (rejected) “you and your sons will be here with me”
all go to the same place.

Please give a Bible verse(s) reference when quoting the Bible. You were quoting 1 Samuel 28:19, although the word "here" wasn't in any translation that I looked in:

(19) Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.​

It seems to me that you do not realise that Saul was not talking to Samuel (who was and still is dead). He was taking to a demon who was speaking through the medium.

1 Samuel 28:3 (WEB):

(3) Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had mourned for him, and buried him in Ramah, even in his own city. Saul had sent away those who had familiar spirits and the wizards out of the land.​

Saul had sent mediums away because God forbade anyone to consult them. But after God had turned against Saul he:

(7) Then Saul said to his servants, “Seek for me a woman who has a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and inquire of her.” His servants said to him, “Behold, there is a woman who has a familiar spirit at Endor.”​

Not only was the demon deceiving Saul, the message he gave was wrong! He said all Saul and all his sons would be killed, but that was not the case - only three of his sons were killed (he had at least seven sons). The demon was deceiving Saul (and others) into believing that the dead Samuel was still alive, but he was lying. Don't base your beliefs on the lies of demons!

 

[Taken]

Where in the Bible does it mention people/angels being forever separated from God? Where do you get that idea from? It is not possible for you to be separated from God, except by your destruction.

Please don't change what I wrote when you quote me. I did not write "God's destruction", I wrote "your destruction". God cannot be destroyed because he is immortal.

Forever separated FROM God, IS Gods Works.
You mentioned Angels/men.

Then “you said”,

It is not possible for you to be separated from God, except by your destruction.

You were speaking TO me.
I am not an Angel.
Logical conclusion you were speaking to a person.

How exactly Am “I” separated from God...”BY MY DESTRUCTION” ?

Separation FROM GOD, IS an individual’s CHOICE...and Gods WORKS!
God Separates. God Destroys.

God’s DESTRUCTION IN CONTEXT...was NOT destroying God...
IN Context IT IS GODS WORKS OF DESTROYING men!

 

[keithr]

Forever separated FROM God, IS Gods Works.

You still haven't said where in the Bible it teaches that anyone will ever be separated from God. Where does it say that God will do that? You should not teach anything that is not supported by the Bible, and if it is supported by the Bible you should tell us where, or else no sensible person will take you seriously.

How exactly Am “I” separated from God...”BY MY DESTRUCTION” ?

Is that a question for me? I don't believe any living being will be separated from God!

Separation FROM GOD, IS an individual’s CHOICE...and Gods WORKS!
God Separates. God Destroys.

You cannot separate yourself from God. God may choose to not listen to your prayers, but you cannot hide from God.

You're not providing any Scripture references to back up your statements. Why not?

God’s DESTRUCTION IN CONTEXT...was NOT destroying God...

What? : I never mentioned "God destroying God". What on earth are you talking about?

 

[bbyrd009]

Please give a Bible verse(s) reference when quoting the Bible. You were quoting 1 Samuel 28:19, although the word "here" wasn't in any translation that I looked in:

(19) Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.​

It seems to me that you do not realise that Saul was not talking to Samuel (who was and still is dead). He was taking to a demon who was speaking through the medium.

1 Samuel 28:3 (WEB):

(3) Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had mourned for him, and buried him in Ramah, even in his own city. Saul had sent away those who had familiar spirits and the wizards out of the land.​

Saul had sent mediums away because God forbade anyone to consult them. But after God had turned against Saul he:

(7) Then Saul said to his servants, “Seek for me a woman who has a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and inquire of her.” His servants said to him, “Behold, there is a woman who has a familiar spirit at Endor.”​

Not only was the demon deceiving Saul, the message he gave was wrong! He said all Saul and all his sons would be killed, but that was not the case - only three of his sons were killed (he had at least seven sons). The demon was deceiving Saul (and others) into believing that the dead Samuel was still alive, but he was lying. Don't base your beliefs on the lies of demons!

ah well i wouldnt accept that by itself, sure, but im not seeing any deception there; Saul knew that Samuel was dead, and while there is no “here” (good catch) there is also no “all your sons” either eh

and ive contemplated the “demon deceived Saul” thing, which is i guess a popular perception, but to me it is a fail, as it is basically saying that the Bible is lying to us, else it would have been written differently, qualified as such, at least imo.

but i am noting now how differently the two accounts of ostensibly dead people are perceived by believers, gotta say that thats interesting; one is a parable that contains a lesson about hearing, that believers tend to go all-in on since it mentions Abraham’s bosom, and the other is supposedly not a parable but an account, that is completely rejected on various grounds, the “demon” one being the most popular, seems like, even though there is no hint of that in the passage

Don't base your beliefs on the lies of demons

you mean “beliefs about the future” here, yes? I dont have those anymore

 

[bbyrd009]

What Are we Getting Saved From?
Denominationalism? I'll prove that I am right ism? Pain in the neck ism?

lol