John 1:1 - Jesus is the Father or he's not the one true God?

[Kermos]

The Encyclopedia Britannica sums it up pretty well:

“The Logos which having been in the beginning, and with God, and divine [‘a god’], had entered human life and history as the Word ‘made flesh!’ .... But the identification of Jesus with the Logos was not tantamount to recognizing him as ‘God.’ Neither the ‘Word of God’ in Hebrew nomenclature nor the Logos in Greek speculation was ‘God’ though it was definitely ‘divine’ [‘a god’].” - Encyclopedia Britannica, 14th ed., vol. 13, p.25.

If John’s intended audience for his Gospel were primarily of Jewish background, we could properly assume his Logos concept was one that was well known in the Jewish world (Philo’s Logos). Some trinitarians (for obvious reasons) insist that John was writing primarily to non-Jewish pagans, but the very language and ideas used in the Gospel of John show that the writer was writing primarily to those of Jewish background. Those unfamiliar with Jewish customs, ideas, and language would have been confused:

“Features of John which suggest more convincingly a Jewish and even Palestinian background are its language, its echoes of rabbinic ideas and methods of argument, and its parallels in thought and language with the recently discovered documents of the [Jewish] Qumran community”! - The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible, vol. 2, p. 942, by the trinitarian Abingdon Press, 1962.

(The Trinitarian New Bible Dictionary, second ed., 1984, also tells us that for the writer of the Gospel of John “a Jewish audience is probably in mind” and, “it is an attractive hypothesis that he wrote especially for the Jews of the Diaspora and proselytes in Hellenistic synagogues. .... the view that the Gospel was written primarily to convert the thoughtful Gentile ... is unlikely.” - p. 607.)

This brings us to the fact that John would have likely been writing to those Jews in the largest and most influential area of Hellenistic Judaism in the known world at that time: Egypt (particularly Alexandria and the many synagogues influenced by it).

It is significant that:

“The existence of John’s Gospel is attested in Egypt before AD 150 [probably 100 – 125 AD] by the Rylands Papyrus 457 [p52], the earliest known fragment of a NT MS.” – p. 610, New Bible Dictionary, Second Edition, Tyndale House Publ., 1984.

“The apparent lack of knowledge of John in Asia gives weight to the claims of Alexandria: here John was certainly used very early by the Gnostics (cf. also the papyri), the climate of thought (Hellenistic Judaism) could be regarded as suitable, and the general remoteness of Alexandria would explain the Gospel’s slow circulation.” – p. 611.

This respected trinitarian Bible dictionary, therefore, admits that the writings of John were found very early in Egypt and only slowly crept outward to other congregations around the Mediterranean. This strongly indicates that Alexandria (or, possibly, another Egyptian synagogue) received the original of John’s Gospel. The Hellenistic Jews most familiar with the Logos of Philo were the very ones John wrote his Gospel to originally.

To further verify this we have the evidence of the earliest manuscripts of John ever found.

The Complete Text of the Earliest New Testament Manuscripts lists the fragments of 11 separate manuscripts as all the very earliest MSS known of the Gospel of John. They include the earliest of all, p52, which is now dated to 100 – 125 AD, which is very soon after the original was written!

The others are 0162; p5; p22; p28; p39; p45; p66; p75; p90; p95. (We also find the very earliest MS of 1 John, p9, was also found in Egypt.)

Out of all 11 of these manuscripts (or 12 if we include p9), only two (p80 and p95) were from unknown locations (in museum, discoverer and original location unknown). All of the others were from Egypt! – Philip Comfort and David Barrett, Baker Books, 1999.

Yes, John wrote his Gospel to Hellenistic Jews in Egypt who had to be well aware of the Logos concept of Philo of Alexandria, and who would be using that concept themselves! Therefore, when John wrote them his Gospel account, there was no need to explain what was meant by “Logos,” the Word. They already knew, and it was Philo’s Logos.

You do not believe that which is explained in the Bible, as shown in the following.

The Apostle John and Philo were temporal contemporaries.

The Jewish leaders understood that John was an "uneducated and untrained" man (Acts 4:13), so this means that Philo would have been exposed to John's testimony as opposed to John being trained in Philo's philosophy.

It is much more plausible that Philo heard or read the Apostle John's testimony that Jesus Christ is the Word (Logos in Greek) and that the Word is God, as now recorded in John 1:1-5 and John 1:14.

Jewish leaders were involved in the persecution (Acts 4:1-31, Acts 5:12-42) and death of Apostles (Luke 23:21, Acts 12:1-3); therefore, Philo is a hostile witness against the Gospel of Christ because he was a Jewish leader.

Philo, as with other Jewish leaders (Acts 4:17), would be interested in eliminating knowledge of the Word or at least introducing confusion about the Word.

One such point of confusion would be Philo introducing the concept of the Word (Logos) being "a god" working as "God's agent" but "not God" but being "Son of God" but "never 'God'".

Philo has a HUGE problem because his philosophy has "a god" being "an intermediate entity" "between God and Man", so Philo's Logos philosophy results in an other "god" being before God for man's salvation; therefore, Philo was living in sin against God because of the commandant "You shall have no other gods before Me" (Exodus 20:3) - the Word written by God's own finger.

As is clearly evident, Watchtower Society people hold to Philo and his confusion, yet "God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the assemblies of the saints" (1 Corinthians 14:33); therefore, Watchtower Society people do not believe in the Word.

Philo remains an advantageous hostile witness because Philo provides evidence of John testifying that the Word is God (John 1:1) before the book of John was penned in a complete compendium around 90 AD.

In other words, historically, Philo provides ample evidence that John's testimony, that the Word is God (John 1:1) even YHWH God, was actively taught in the lifetime of John the Apostle.

In other words, historically, Philo provides ample evidence that John's testimony, that the Word is God (John 1:1) even YHWH God, was actively taught in the lifetime of John the Apostle because as a Jewish leader Philo would actively try to confuse John teaching Christian Truth (John 14:6).

Philo's writing illuminates that John 1:1-5 as we have in the book of John is accurate despite Watchtower Society people's thoughts that other people corrupt John 1:1-5 as it appears in English Bibles such as the KJV, NASB, and ESV.

In fact, this means that the Watchtower Society's New World Translation bible's "the Word was a god" (John 1:1) is the teaching of a Jewish leader opposed to Christ and Christians, and that Jewish leader's name is Philo.

 

[Kermos]

Actually the Bible says that it is impossible for God to lie...

Hebrews 6:18 "That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:"

Numbers 23:19 "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?"

So again tell us where it is possible for God to lie???

Since God exercises control of the domain of the possible to establish that it is impossible for God to lie about two unchangable things (Hebrews 6:18) specifically "the promise, the unchangeableness, of His purpose, interposed with an oath" (Hebrews 6:17), then so be it. God is not a man that lies (Numbers 23:19).

I take great comfort in God's unchangable promise - thank you Jesus!

Now back to APAK and JohnPaul and your (because of your broken defense) spirit of delusion that God cannot possibly have Jesus be truly Man and truly God.

You writing exposes communion with APAK's spirit of delusion in that you think there are "at least two impossible processes" for God relating to Jesus being truly Man and truly God

Lord Jesus Christ declares "with God all things are possible" (Matthew 19:26).

Your heart rejects the Word of God (John 1:1-5, John 1:14).

Nothing, absolutely nothing, in scripture even remotely suggests that it's impossible for Jesus to be truly God and truly Man.

In fact, scripture describes Jesus Christ as truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man, and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28, John 5:18, John 10:30-31) - the Son of God.

This current post extends the Jesus, truly God, always exists "before Abraham" as "I AM" (John 8:58) prior to Mary being told the beget event of Jesus, truly Man, prophecy by Gabriel "you will conceive in your womb and bear a Son" (Luke 1:34) (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] in post #632 in this thread) post.

JohnPaul, the content of this post goes for you as well because you liked APAK'S spirit of delusion thoughts.

@APAK and @JohnPaul and True Faith, you deny Jesus, so you deny God.

 

[True Faith]

Since God exercises control of the domain of the possible to establish that it is impossible for God to lie about two unchangable things (Hebrews 6:18) specifically "the promise, the unchangeableness, of His purpose, interposed with an oath" (Hebrews 6:17), then so be it. God is not a man that lies (Numbers 23:19).

I take great comfort in God's unchangable promise - thank you Jesus!

Now back to APAK and JohnPaul and your (because of your broken defense) spirit of delusion that God cannot possibly have Jesus be truly Man and truly God.

You writing exposes communion with APAK's spirit of delusion in that you think there are "at least two impossible processes" for God relating to Jesus being truly Man and truly God

Lord Jesus Christ declares "with God all things are possible" (Matthew 19:26).

Your heart rejects the Word of God (John 1:1-5, John 1:14).

Nothing, absolutely nothing, in scripture even remotely suggests that it's impossible for Jesus to be truly God and truly Man.

In fact, scripture describes Jesus Christ as truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man, and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28, John 5:18, John 10:30-31) - the Son of God.

This current post extends the Jesus, truly God, always exists "before Abraham" as "I AM" (John 8:58) prior to Mary being told the beget event of Jesus, truly Man, prophecy by Gabriel "you will conceive in your womb and bear a Son" (Luke 1:34) (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] in post #632 in this thread) post.

JohnPaul, the content of this post goes for you as well because you liked APAK'S spirit of delusion thoughts.

@APAK and @JohnPaul and True Faith, you deny Jesus, so you deny God.

Here is your Problem....

John 6:38 "For I have come down from heaven not to do mine own will but the will of him that sent me."

Are you saying that Jesus or God lied when Jesus made that statement???

come on now... answer the question... we know what the bible actually says and what it means.... it is impossible for God to like... John 1:14 says that Jesus was full of Truth... so answer the question.. please don't keep up with your deflections...

 

[APAK]

Since God exercises control of the domain of the possible to establish that it is impossible for God to lie about two unchangable things (Hebrews 6:18) specifically "the promise, the unchangeableness, of His purpose, interposed with an oath" (Hebrews 6:17), then so be it. God is not a man that lies (Numbers 23:19).

I take great comfort in God's unchangable promise - thank you Jesus!

Now back to APAK and JohnPaul and your (because of your broken defense) spirit of delusion that God cannot possibly have Jesus be truly Man and truly God.

You writing exposes communion with APAK's spirit of delusion in that you think there are "at least two impossible processes" for God relating to Jesus being truly Man and truly God

Lord Jesus Christ declares "with God all things are possible" (Matthew 19:26).

Your heart rejects the Word of God (John 1:1-5, John 1:14).

Nothing, absolutely nothing, in scripture even remotely suggests that it's impossible for Jesus to be truly God and truly Man.

In fact, scripture describes Jesus Christ as truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man, and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28, John 5:18, John 10:30-31) - the Son of God.

This current post extends the Jesus, truly God, always exists "before Abraham" as "I AM" (John 8:58) prior to Mary being told the beget event of Jesus, truly Man, prophecy by Gabriel "you will conceive in your womb and bear a Son" (Luke 1:34) (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] in post #632 in this thread) post.

JohnPaul, the content of this post goes for you as well because you liked APAK'S spirit of delusion thoughts.

@APAK and @JohnPaul and True Faith, you deny Jesus, so you deny God.

I say you believe in an unbiblical and false Yahshua, the Son of your Triune non-descript God, and therefore in the process, a strange form of God as his Father. The major pitfall and err causing you false beliefs stem from your human-derived Creeds and Catechisms and imaginations that are considered superior and have replaced scripture at least on this subject. You cannot deny this as a fact. Honesty works wonders Kermos. Try it sometime.

 

[Rich R]

I say you believe in an unbiblical and false Yahshua, the Son of your Triune non-descript God, and therefore in the process, a strange form of God as his Father. The major pitfall and err causing you false beliefs stem from your human-derived Creeds and Catechisms and imaginations that are considered superior and have replaced scripture at least on this subject. You cannot deny this as a fact. Honesty works wonders Kermos. Try it sometime.

The scriptures make sense when we understand that a son can not be his own father. It's mind boggling how the trinity gained so much traction in the church. Jesus is the son of God. That's easy to understand. Jesus being the son of God and God makes 0 sense.

 

[JohnPaul]

I say you believe in an unbiblical and false Yahshua, the Son of your Triune non-descript God, and therefore in the process, a strange form of God as his Father. The major pitfall and err causing you false beliefs stem from your human-derived Creeds and Catechisms and imaginations that are considered superior and have replaced scripture at least on this subject. You cannot deny this as a fact. Honesty works wonders Kermos. Try it sometime.

APAK, I couldn’t have said it better myself brother! Amen.

 

[Kermos]

Here is your Problem....

John 6:38 "For I have come down from heaven not to do mine own will but the will of him that sent me."

Are you saying that Jesus or God lied when Jesus made that statement???

come on now... answer the question... we know what the bible actually says and what it means.... it is impossible for God to like... John 1:14 says that Jesus was full of Truth... so answer the question.. please don't keep up with your deflections...

You preach that Jesus is a liar when Lord Jesus Christ declares "with God all things are possible" (Matthew 19:26).

Since God exercises control of the domain of the possible to establish that it is impossible for God to lie about two unchangable things (Hebrews 6:18) specifically "the promise, the unchangeableness, of His purpose, interposed with an oath" (Hebrews 6:17), then so be it. God is not a man that lies (Numbers 23:19).

Jesus Christ is truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man, and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28, John 5:18, John 10:30-31) - the Son of God.

With God controlling all possible, Jesus is truly Man and truly God, AND THERE IS NO SCRIPTURE THAT STATES JESUS, TRULY GOD AND TRULY MAN, IS IMPOSSIBLE.

When Jesus says "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me" (John 6:38), then Jesus speaks as truly Man.

When Jesus says "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58) , then according to the Jesus, truly God, exists in eternity past which means Jesus is uncreated thus Jesus proclaims that Jesus is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

@APAK you need to hear this because of your like of that post.

"He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48) declares Jesus the Word of God.

You reject Jesus and you do not receive Jesus Christ's sayings such as "with God all things are possible" (Matthew 19:26) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58), so, in your current state of being, you are under the wrath of God.

 

[APAK]

You preach that Jesus is a liar when Lord Jesus Christ declares "with God all things are possible" (Matthew 19:26).

Since God exercises control of the domain of the possible to establish that it is impossible for God to lie about two unchangable things (Hebrews 6:18) specifically "the promise, the unchangeableness, of His purpose, interposed with an oath" (Hebrews 6:17), then so be it. God is not a man that lies (Numbers 23:19).

Jesus Christ is truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man, and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28, John 5:18, John 10:30-31) - the Son of God.

With God controlling all possible, Jesus is truly Man and truly God, AND THERE IS NO SCRIPTURE THAT STATES JESUS, TRULY GOD AND TRULY MAN, IS IMPOSSIBLE.

When Jesus says "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me" (John 6:38), then Jesus speaks as truly Man.

When Jesus says "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58) , then according to the Jesus, truly God, exists in eternity past which means Jesus is uncreated thus Jesus proclaims that Jesus is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

@APAK you need to hear this because of your like of that post.

"He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48) declares Jesus the Word of God.

You reject Jesus and you do not receive Jesus Christ's sayings such as "with God all things are possible" (Matthew 19:26) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58), so, in your current state of being, you are under the wrath of God.

You are amusing Kermos. I think every chat site needs a Kermos.....

You know there are 38 sayings or commandments of Jesus, and 3/4 of them are found in Matthew. Do you 'keep' or pay attention to all these Kermos. I do..... in spirit....a few are not to be taken literally and given only as a type of example

 

[Kermos]

I say you believe in an unbiblical and false Yahshua, the Son of your Triune non-descript God, and therefore in the process, a strange form of God as his Father. The major pitfall and err causing you false beliefs stem from your human-derived Creeds and Catechisms and imaginations that are considered superior and have replaced scripture at least on this subject. You cannot deny this as a fact. Honesty works wonders Kermos. Try it sometime.

Well, your heart has been proven evil according to the revelation in the Bible.

Jesus, truly God, always exists "before Abraham" as "I AM" (John 8:58) prior to Mary being told the beget event of Jesus, truly Man, prophecy by Gabriel "you will conceive in your womb and bear a Son" (Luke 1:34) (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] in post #632 in this thread).

You wickedly thing there are impossible things for God, yet Jesus declares all things are possible with God (Matthew 19:26) (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] in post #636 in this thread).

Wait, here's more:

You publicly admit that you deny the consistent Christian Apostolic testimony such as the Apostle Paul calls Jesus "the great God" (τοῦ μεγάλου Θεοῦ) with "looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus" (Titus 2:13) as well as the Apostle Thomas calls Jesus "my God" wirh "My Lord and my God" (John 20:28) and Peter calling Jesus "the God" (2 Peter 1:1) and Matthew says Jesus is "God with us" (Matthew 1:23) and John calls Jesus "God" (John 1:1) (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1392 in this ChristianityBoard thread), yet no Christian denies such strong Apostolic testimony.


APAK, @tigger 2, @XFire and @Wrangler (you latter 3 by your APAK post agreement likes) - no other scripture records a man making this awesome declaration to everlasting existence in prior time along with the words "ego eimi" (I AM) - Jesus alone makes such declaration as recorded by the Apostle John (John 8:58) (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1438 in this ChristianityBoard thread), yet you wickedly ascribe the everlasting attribute to everyone who says "ego eimi" (I am) in the scriptures thus you have a multitude of gods, so your deception runs deep in your heart.

In a stroke of linguistic folly, you wickedly adulterate John 8:58 into "Truly, truly, I say to you, I simply rank higher than Abraham" (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1615 in this ChristianityBoard thread), yet the Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Jesus proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He proclaims that He is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

 

[Kermos]

I say you believe in an unbiblical and false Yahshua, the Son of your Triune non-descript God, and therefore in the process, a strange form of God as his Father.

Well, @Rich R since your heart beats in common with APAK with your a "like" of APAK's post, your heart has been proven evil according to the revelation in the Bible.

Jesus is the Word (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #329 in this thread), but you deny the Word of God.

In the same vein, Luke 1:1-2 identify Jesus is the Word, just like John 1:14 identifies Jesus is the Word (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #394 in this thread), so you intensely persist in your rejection of the Word of God.

You admit "the Word was God" (John 1:1) states that "the Word" is being referred to as "God" with your writing of 'the "word" was God Himself' (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #238 in this thread), but you wickedly proceeded to disassociate John's writing from John's writing in John chapter 1 where John declares Jesus is the Word (John 1:14) your heart evilly disassociates from Jesus being God "the Word was God" (John 1:1) since Jesus is the Word (John 1:14).

You publicly blaspheme against the Holy Spirit (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #421 in this thread) because you call the Holy Spirit a grotesque thing.

You convey that no person was ever created except for Adam in your complete denial of God's sovereignty (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #447 in this thread), yet the Word of God (John 1:1-5, John 1:14) declares "I formed you in the womb" (Jeremiah 1:5), so every person born has been created by God in the person's mother's womb. Jesus, truly God, exists eternally, so Jesus is uncreated.

In a similar vein, You convey that the words "formed" and "created" unrelated with respect to God's creation, yet "formed" and "created" are intimately related (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #449 in this thread) because "All things came into being through Him, and without Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being" (John 1:3) is John’s writing about Jesus causing everything to "be", that is, to exist for Jesus is the Word (shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #238 in this thread)

Continuing in a similar vein, The words "formed" and "created" are used synonymously in Genesis 1:27 and Genesis 2:7 for God's creative act of bringing Adam into existence (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #452 in this thread); therefore, God establishes the precedent for the words "formed" and "created" to show God's creative act. Man is created. Man is formed. God is uncreated. Jesus is YHWH God (John 1:1-5, John 1:14)

WAIT, THERE'S MORE:

You demonstrated a staggering level of linguistic errors, omissions, and/or misrepresentations as shown in the following links:

Despite being confronted by the Word of God clearly indicating that Jesus manifesting flesh as truly Man exists with the Word of God clearly indicating that Jesus as truly God (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1681 in this ChristianityBoard thread), you foolishly persist in your delusion of destruction that Jesus is not YHWH God.

moreover

You evilly use your flattering tongue to additionally spread lies about Jesus such as your heart's deception that Jesus is not God (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1554 in this ChristianityBoard thread), and you deny Apostolic testimony that Jesus is God by your wicked thoughts that clear verses "are ambiguous and don't say outright that Jesus is God", and you disrespect and dishonor the Holy Name of God showing your wolf in sheep's clothing internals.

moreover

You wickedly promote mere humans to being God while you evilly demote Jesus from being God (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #848 in this ChristianityBoard thread), and you deceptively try to confuse Jesus' special place as Immanuel, God with us (Matthew 1:23, Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 9:6).

moreover

In your heart, you subtract the Apostle Thomas saying "my God" to Lord Jesus (John 20:28) in the context of Thomas' usage (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #870 in this ChristianityBoard thread), so you deny Apostolic testimony.

moreover

You desperately try to change the Word of God into "that they also may be one with us" in John 17:21-22, so you are making yourself out to be greater than the Word of God (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1003 in this ChristianityBoard thread), so you nullify the Word of God, Jesus (John 1:1, John 1:14) in your heart by exalting your thoughts above God's thoughts (Isaiah 55:8-9).

moreover

You foolishly claim the Greek "en" can mean "with", yet "en" truly means "in", and your foolishness targets your thoughts that Jesus does not mean "one" when Jesus says "one" both in John 10:30 and John 17:21-22 (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1213 in this ChristianityBoard thread), so you are under the delusion that. Jesus is not one with the Father despite Jesus truthfully declaring of the Father and Himself "We are One" (John 17:22). You are fixated on the temporal instead of the eternal.

moreover

By your writing, your illogic is illuminated, your linguistic foolishness abounds, and you expose your fleshly natural state of being (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1269 in this ChristianityBoard thread); consequently, (1) you deny the personification references of the Father as well as the Christ in scripture, (2) you deny the true meaning of "one" as shown near the pie example, (3) you deny Jesus' sayings of "We are One" (John 17:22) by adulterating His words with your limiting words from your heart, (4) you deny the Spiritual Truth (John 14:6) by imposing your temporal treasure on Jesus, (5) you change the language of Ephesians 1:4, and (6) you deny Jesus is God despite the testimony of scripture indicating that Jesus is God.

moreover

In a bout of linguistic foolishness, you preach that "I will be" is correct for Exodus 3:14 instead of "I AM" (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1280 in this ChristianityBoard thread); therefore, you convey that your heart's treasure is that God does change in direct contradiction to the Word of God saying "I, YHWH, do not change" (Malachi 3:6).

moreover

(1)You adulterate the Word of God recorded in Jeremiah 18:6-10 into the word of Rich R "if that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I change" (2) in order to adulterate the Word of God "I, YHWH, do not change" (Malachi 3:6) into the word of Rich R "I, Jehovah, do not change except I will become for Israel" (3) which you extend to adulterate the Word of God "I AM Who I AM" (Exodus 3:14) into the word of Rich R "I will be who I will be" (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1331 in this ChristianityBoard thread), so you call the Word of God a LIE, in fact, your word leads you to not know who God is.

moreover


You confusedly lie about writings including Paul's writing that Jesus is not the first man born (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1703 in this ChristianityBoard thread), as is clearly shown between Colossians 1:15 and 1 Corinthians 15:47.

moreover

You show your utter disrespectful contempt for the Word of God by trying to change the meaning of the Hebrew language (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1660 in this ChristianityBoard thread), even after you've been shown the word for Strong's 5162 means "to be sorry, console oneself", not "repent", but truly something akin to "sorrow"; IN EFFECT, YOU LABEL YHWH GOD A CONFUSED FOOL THAT LIES.

moreover

You show a repeated disrespect and dishonor and disregard for the God Most High by misspelling the sacred and Holy Name of God, YHWH, (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1287 in this ChristianityBoard thread) in at least 3 different posts; therefore, you publicly show just how little God means to you as well as your failure to understand God

You have a false god that you created based on your thoughts that you named Jesus, yet your false god is not the Jesus revealed in the Word of God.

 

[Rich R]

Well, @Rich R since your heart beats in common with APAK with your a "like" of APAK's post, your heart has been proven evil according to the revelation in the Bible.

Jesus is the Word (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #329 in this thread), but you deny the Word of God.

In the same vein, Luke 1:1-2 identify Jesus is the Word, just like John 1:14 identifies Jesus is the Word (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #394 in this thread), so you intensely persist in your rejection of the Word of God.

You admit "the Word was God" (John 1:1) states that "the Word" is being referred to as "God" with your writing of 'the "word" was God Himself' (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #238 in this thread), but you wickedly proceeded to disassociate John's writing from John's writing in John chapter 1 where John declares Jesus is the Word (John 1:14) your heart evilly disassociates from Jesus being God "the Word was God" (John 1:1) since Jesus is the Word (John 1:14).

You publicly blaspheme against the Holy Spirit (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #421 in this thread) because you call the Holy Spirit a grotesque thing.

You convey that no person was ever created except for Adam in your complete denial of God's sovereignty (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #447 in this thread), yet the Word of God (John 1:1-5, John 1:14) declares "I formed you in the womb" (Jeremiah 1:5), so every person born has been created by God in the person's mother's womb. Jesus, truly God, exists eternally, so Jesus is uncreated.

In a similar vein, You convey that the words "formed" and "created" unrelated with respect to God's creation, yet "formed" and "created" are intimately related (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #449 in this thread) because "All things came into being through Him, and without Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being" (John 1:3) is John’s writing about Jesus causing everything to "be", that is, to exist for Jesus is the Word (shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #238 in this thread)

Continuing in a similar vein, The words "formed" and "created" are used synonymously in Genesis 1:27 and Genesis 2:7 for God's creative act of bringing Adam into existence (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #452 in this thread); therefore, God establishes the precedent for the words "formed" and "created" to show God's creative act. Man is created. Man is formed. God is uncreated. Jesus is YHWH God (John 1:1-5, John 1:14)

WAIT, THERE'S MORE:

You demonstrated a staggering level of linguistic errors, omissions, and/or misrepresentations as shown in the following links:

Despite being confronted by the Word of God clearly indicating that Jesus manifesting flesh as truly Man exists with the Word of God clearly indicating that Jesus as truly God (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1681 in this ChristianityBoard thread), you foolishly persist in your delusion of destruction that Jesus is not YHWH God.

moreover

You evilly use your flattering tongue to additionally spread lies about Jesus such as your heart's deception that Jesus is not God (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1554 in this ChristianityBoard thread), and you deny Apostolic testimony that Jesus is God by your wicked thoughts that clear verses "are ambiguous and don't say outright that Jesus is God", and you disrespect and dishonor the Holy Name of God showing your wolf in sheep's clothing internals.

moreover

You wickedly promote mere humans to being God while you evilly demote Jesus from being God (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #848 in this ChristianityBoard thread), and you deceptively try to confuse Jesus' special place as Immanuel, God with us (Matthew 1:23, Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 9:6).

moreover

In your heart, you subtract the Apostle Thomas saying "my God" to Lord Jesus (John 20:28) in the context of Thomas' usage (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #870 in this ChristianityBoard thread), so you deny Apostolic testimony.

moreover

You desperately try to change the Word of God into "that they also may be one with us" in John 17:21-22, so you are making yourself out to be greater than the Word of God (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1003 in this ChristianityBoard thread), so you nullify the Word of God, Jesus (John 1:1, John 1:14) in your heart by exalting your thoughts above God's thoughts (Isaiah 55:8-9).

moreover

You foolishly claim the Greek "en" can mean "with", yet "en" truly means "in", and your foolishness targets your thoughts that Jesus does not mean "one" when Jesus says "one" both in John 10:30 and John 17:21-22 (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1213 in this ChristianityBoard thread), so you are under the delusion that. Jesus is not one with the Father despite Jesus truthfully declaring of the Father and Himself "We are One" (John 17:22). You are fixated on the temporal instead of the eternal.

moreover

By your writing, your illogic is illuminated, your linguistic foolishness abounds, and you expose your fleshly natural state of being (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1269 in this ChristianityBoard thread); consequently, (1) you deny the personification references of the Father as well as the Christ in scripture, (2) you deny the true meaning of "one" as shown near the pie example, (3) you deny Jesus' sayings of "We are One" (John 17:22) by adulterating His words with your limiting words from your heart, (4) you deny the Spiritual Truth (John 14:6) by imposing your temporal treasure on Jesus, (5) you change the language of Ephesians 1:4, and (6) you deny Jesus is God despite the testimony of scripture indicating that Jesus is God.

moreover

In a bout of linguistic foolishness, you preach that "I will be" is correct for Exodus 3:14 instead of "I AM" (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1280 in this ChristianityBoard thread); therefore, you convey that your heart's treasure is that God does change in direct contradiction to the Word of God saying "I, YHWH, do not change" (Malachi 3:6).

moreover

(1)You adulterate the Word of God recorded in Jeremiah 18:6-10 into the word of Rich R "if that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I change" (2) in order to adulterate the Word of God "I, YHWH, do not change" (Malachi 3:6) into the word of Rich R "I, Jehovah, do not change except I will become for Israel" (3) which you extend to adulterate the Word of God "I AM Who I AM" (Exodus 3:14) into the word of Rich R "I will be who I will be" (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1331 in this ChristianityBoard thread), so you call the Word of God a LIE, in fact, your word leads you to not know who God is.

moreover


You confusedly lie about writings including Paul's writing that Jesus is not the first man born (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1703 in this ChristianityBoard thread), as is clearly shown between Colossians 1:15 and 1 Corinthians 15:47.

moreover

You show your utter disrespectful contempt for the Word of God by trying to change the meaning of the Hebrew language (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1660 in this ChristianityBoard thread), even after you've been shown the word for Strong's 5162 means "to be sorry, console oneself", not "repent", but truly something akin to "sorrow"; IN EFFECT, YOU LABEL YHWH GOD A CONFUSED FOOL THAT LIES.

moreover

You show a repeated disrespect and dishonor and disregard for the God Most High by misspelling the sacred and Holy Name of God, YHWH, (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1287 in this ChristianityBoard thread) in at least 3 different posts; therefore, you publicly show just how little God means to you as well as your failure to understand God

You have a false god that you created based on your thoughts that you named Jesus, yet your false god is not the Jesus revealed in the Word of God.

The part I like best is, "WAIT, THERE'S MORE:" As if that which proceeded wasn't enough to send condemn me to 10,000 deaths! :)

 

[APAK]

The part I like best is, "WAIT, THERE'S MORE:"

so funny. Kermos is bring back the Spanish inquisitions you know? And guess who are the top ten on his list....

 

[Rich R]

so funny. Kermos is bring back the Spanish inquisitions you know? And guess who are the top ten on his list....

You and I should be looking for asbestos body suits! :)

 

[Wrangler]

The scriptures make sense when we understand that a son can not be his own father. It's mind boggling how the trinity gained so much traction in the church. Jesus is the son of God. That's easy to understand. Jesus being the son of God and God makes 0 sense.

It is amazing how the trinity gained so much traction in the church. Rubenstein's book, How Jesus Became God, at the close of the Roman Empire shows the political motivations for the absolute ruler, the Roman Emperor to squash ALL thoughts regarding disunity. This put him in bed with the theological mystics. Rubenstein explains the coercion used against non-trinitarians; they were exiled, had their property taken, beaten and murdered.

Given this history, it is understandable how the trinity initially gained traction, especially with Scripture being so inaccessible to the people. Now, available for free online, it is truly amazing that anyone who reads Scripture would walk away with the notion that The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit who are co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever, thereby, making accepting the trinity the central point of the 66 books as so many here assert.

Regarding the mystical 'everything in Scripture points to the trinity' despite all evidence to the contrary, has caused me to genuinely ask if they see evidence in support of the trinity in their corn flakes and in inkblots. Why do we see what’s not there? - PMC (nih.gov)

 

[APAK]

It is amazing how the trinity gained so much traction in the church. Rubenstein's book, How Jesus Became God, at the close of the Roman Empire shows the political motivations for the absolute ruler, the Roman Emperor to squash ALL thoughts regarding disunity. This put him in bed with the theological mystics. Rubenstein explains the coercion used against non-trinitarians; they were exiled, had their property taken, beaten and murdered.

Given this history, it is understandable how the trinity initially gained traction, especially with Scripture being so inaccessible to the people. Now, available for free online, it is truly amazing that anyone who reads Scripture would walk away with the notion that The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit who are co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever, thereby, making accepting the trinity the central point of the 66 books as so many here assert.

Regarding the mystical 'everything in Scripture points to the trinity' despite all evidence to the contrary, has caused me to genuinely ask if they see evidence in support of the trinity in their corn flakes and in inkblots. Why do we see what’s not there? - PMC (nih.gov)

in 3-leaf clovers, in the 3 of hearts, clubs, diamonds, spades, in a 3-ring circus, equilateral triangle, the 3 amigos, .....

 

[Rich R]

It is amazing how the trinity gained so much traction in the church. Rubenstein's book, How Jesus Became God, at the close of the Roman Empire shows the political motivations for the absolute ruler, the Roman Emperor to squash ALL thoughts regarding disunity. This put him in bed with the theological mystics. Rubenstein explains the coercion used against non-trinitarians; they were exiled, had their property taken, beaten and murdered.

Given this history, it is understandable how the trinity initially gained traction, especially with Scripture being so inaccessible to the people. Now, available for free online, it is truly amazing that anyone who reads Scripture would walk away with the notion that The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit who are co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever, thereby, making accepting the trinity the central point of the 66 books as so many here assert.

Regarding the mystical 'everything in Scripture points to the trinity' despite all evidence to the contrary, has caused me to genuinely ask if they see evidence in support of the trinity in their corn flakes and in inkblots. Why do we see what’s not there? - PMC (nih.gov)

I've read "How Jesus Became God." Very good book, but most non-scholarly trinitarians dismiss history as though it has no bearing on anything. Denial, denial, denial...!

Of course history does not determine truth, but there's no reason it can't help verify the truth. Trinitarians don't mind looking at the historical "church fathers" though. I guess that history is OK. What a sham!

Before he even died, Paul warned the church of some preaching "another Jesus." They're still going strong!

 

[Wrangler]

trinitarians dismiss history as though it has no bearing on anything. Denial, denial, denial...!

Of course history does not determine truth, but there's no reason it can't help verify the truth. Trinitarians don't mind looking at the historical "church fathers" though. I guess that history is OK. What a sham!

Akin to their reading of Scripture. Only verses in support of their doctrine are allowed on the table for discussion.

Their rationalization for verses that undermine the trinity is something to behold.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The scriptures make sense when we understand that a son can not be his own father. It's mind boggling how the trinity gained so much traction in the church. Jesus is the son of God. That's easy to understand. Jesus being the son of God and God makes 0 sense.

John 17:11
Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, so that they may be one just as We are.

Same Name and in perfect unity.

 

[Rich R]

Akin to their reading of Scripture. Only verses in support of their doctrine are allowed on the table for discussion.

Their rationalization for verses that undermine the trinity is something to behold.

Yes, most of the verses they use to "prove" the trinity say nothing of the sort.

They take a section where Jesus is talking to his Father and make it out to be God talking to Himself.

They really like John. Well, not quite all of it. They don't like John 20:31 where John gives his purpose in writing as proving Jesus is the son of God and the anointed one but nothing about him actually being God. I guess they don't like John 17:3 either. Or maybe they just think that Jesus was wrong there when he said his Father is the only true God. Apparently Paul made the same mistake in 1 Cor 8:6.

They like to hear that Jesus and God are "one" but close their minds to all believers also being "one."

They love Jesus having a "divine nature" while ignoring 2 Peter 1:4 which is the only verse that even talks about a divine nature, and there it says believers are those who share in a divine nature!

 

[Rich R]

John 17:11
Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, so that they may be one just as We are.

Same Name and in perfect unity.

I'm thinking that being one does not actually make two or more people somehow one person. Otherwise how would you explain all of us also being one? I think you're a great guy and all, but I do like being myself!

I think there are better explanations for what it means when two or more people are said to be one. I'd say the normal way we take that is to mean two or more people are united in goals, purposes, methods, etc. Why can't it be that way with Jesus and God? Jesus always subjugated his will to that of his Father. How in the world that doesn't put the trinity to rest once and for all is beyond me. God does not have a split personality! His will and Jesus' will are different simply because they are different individuals. I think it just shows the power of tradition to make the word of God of none effect (Mark 7:13)