Difference between Catholic and Protestant.

[BreadOfLife]

Here's why it's you who's wrong:

The weekly Sabbath was created at the end of the six days of Creation before sin entered the world when there were no spiritual shadows.....all was light. There were no Passovers, no Unleavened Breads, no meat offerings, drink offerings, no new moons, or holy days, nothing.

Let's stop denying the Catholic church claims to have changed the Sabbath from the 7th day to the 1st day, OK? Read www.rome'schallenge.com where they make as good of arguments as we do for why the change isn't Biblical.

WRONG - you're arguing in circles.

I've already proven WHY the Sabbath wan instituted in Ex 16:23-30 - and showed the connectiono to the reality that it became in the Eucharist (John 6:31-35).
YOU keep going BACK to the false idea that it is simply a "memoroial" - which it is NOT.
It is a memorial - and a TYPE.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I noticed you didn't say the Cross is crucial to our salvation, but to the establishment of the catholic church. Do you believe we're saved by the blood of Jesus ALONE without dependence on anything else but that we "believe on Him Whom He hath sent"?

I read where a Catholic priest spoke about how he loved so the Reformation hymns, especially "How Great Thou Art" but when he got to a certain verse, he says he stops sinning until it's done:

"And when I think of God, His Son not sparing,
Sent Him to die, I scarce can take it in..."

The priest said, "I scarce can take it in either". He said the blood of Christ has nothing to do with our salvation, but is delegated from God directly to the priesthood. Of course, "Dignities and Duties of the Priest" plainly says the priest is to be approached as "another Christ" in order to have forgiveness imparted to him.

Can you point to an official, Imprimatur stamped catholic document saying Jesus' blood ALONE is all we need to secure God's grace of salvation by our faith in that alone?

That ALL depends on what YOU consider "Believe" to be.

"Believining" in Christ for your salvation requires MUCH more than simple intellectual or emotional assent. It requires surrender and obedience.

James 2:19 tells us that even the denoms believe - so just "believing" is NOT enough.
Paul says that this kind of "Faith" is NOT enough - and only LOVE is the greatest virtue (1 Cor. 13:1-13). He declares that faith WORKING through LOVE is ALL that matters.

Jesus describes the greatest expression of "Love" as laying down one's LIFE for ones friends (John 15:13) - and that requires OBEDIENCE.

The blood of Christ IS the only thing that saves - and our COOPERATION with God's grace to believe in this gift is essential.

 

[Brakelite]

He has already done that--presented Himself to the Father. He had to because it was necessary to see if the sacrifice He made was acceptable--it was. He doesn't have to do it again.

Rev 5:6-9
6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.


7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.


8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.


9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

:)

 

[BreadOfLife]

You make clear you heavily rely on Philosophies of Catholic Scholars;
Your own Catholic Church teaches For Catholics to heavily rely on Philosophies of Catholic Scholars.

Then you (a Catholic) list multiply Protestant Scholars;

Why?

Scripture itself gives a forewarning to BEWARE of mens ability to spoil with vain deceit Through philosophies and traditions of men OF the world, rather than Christ.

Col 2:
[8] Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

ABSOLUTELY.
When it comes to speaking or understanding Greek - I trust in educated Greek scholars FAR MORE than a couple of angry anti-Catholics on an obscure debate forrum.

I'me not hanging my faith or my salvation on a Greek scholar the way YOU guys hang YOUR salvation on the Catholic Tradition of the New Testament. I'm simply agreeiung with ther assessment of a Greek sentence - and the context, therein.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Well, at this time I would have say that I choose not to rock around the clock anymore. It's a futile argument you know! God Bless.

And that's fine- as loong as you understand that eveything I said is from Scripture.
No matter how you sllice it - Jesus ISN'T the only "Rock" in the Bible.

He's just the most important one . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

A liar is someone who knows the truth and purposely hides it, distorts it or makes up an entirely different story. A person, even a group of scholars who are in agreement can be wrong. It doesn't mean they are liars..
Post #130 was practically 85 % scripture. The Bible identifies Jesus as the Rock. Scripture supports and is tested by scripture not commentary of traditions of men. It just depends on how you interpret that scripture.

And, as I proved THREE times now - the Bible ALSO identifies Abraham (Isa. 51:1-2) and Peter (Matt. 16:18) as the "Rock".

 

[Illuminator]

I noticed you didn't say the Cross is crucial to our salvation, but to the establishment of the catholic church.

BoL didn't say that. He said BOTH. You are too hostile to have a reasonable discussion, you would rather fire verbal missiles.

 

[Taken]

ABSOLUTELY.
When it comes to speaking or understanding Greek -

As suspected even common sense eluded you.
The Point was Spiritual Understanding according to God, not the Greeks!

YOU guys hang YOUR salvation on the Catholic Tradition of the New Testament.

LOL, your wishful thinking has once again, failed you.

 

[Illuminator]

Nah mate, I'm not a Protestant, I'm non-denominational and am therefore strictly neutral and can discuss all religions and criticise them if I think they need straightening out..:)
As for Ukraine, they're not all sweetness and light as our western media would have us believe, for example I hear Ukraine is tolerant of LGBT perverts, is that right?

I hear the United Kingdom has "Pride marches", is that right?

And Ukrainian jets blew the legs off this woman in the Donbas several years ago-

Innocent victims happens in EVERY war, it's called collateral damage. It doesn't justify blowing up apartment buildings, bombing hospitals, murdering children, and annihilating cities and towns into rubble.

There is nothing neutral about anti-Catholic lies, falsehoods and misrepresentations that flood this forum. Verbal missiles. The analogy is fitting. Fortunately for you, it's tolerated in Christianity Board Living People Loving Community.

@doughty take note

 

[Illuminator]

And, as I proved THREE times now - the Bible ALSO identifies Abraham (Isa. 51:1-2) and Peter (Matt. 16:18) as the "Rock".

Many words in scripture have multiple meanings, like "pray", and "brother". Cherry picking the one meaning at the exclusion of other meanings is dishonest.

2 Sam. 22:2-3, 32, 47; 23:3; Psalm 18:2,31,46; 19:4; 28:1; 42:9; 62:2,6,7; 89:26; 94:22; 144:1-2 – in these verses, God is also called “rock.” Hence, from these verses, non-Catholics often argue that God, and not Peter, is the rock that Jesus is referring to in Matt. 16:18. This argument not only ignores the plain meaning of the applicable texts, but also assumes words used in Scripture can only have one meaning. This, of course, is not true. For example:

• 1 Corinthians 3:11 – Jesus is called the only foundation of the Church, and yet in Eph. 2:20, the apostles are called the foundation of the Church.
• Similarly, in 1 Peter 2:25, Jesus is called the Shepherd of the flock, but in Acts 20:28, the apostles are called the shepherds of the flock.

These verses show that there are multiple metaphors for the Church, and that words used by the inspired writers of Scripture can have various meanings. Catholics agree that God is the rock of the Church, but this does not mean He cannot confer this distinction upon Peter as well, to facilitate the unity He desires for the Church.
but this does not mean He cannot confer this distinction upon Peter as well, to facilitate the unity He desires for the Church.

to facilitate the unity He desires for the Church.

 

[JunChosen]

I get it.
ALL of those Protestant scholars are "LIARS" - but YOU and @Ronald David Bruno are NOT??
So, of the tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering Protestant factions that mat disagree with you - YOU guys are correct - and everybody else is a "LIAR".

Didn't say everybody is a liar, only those who are not faithful to the word of God, as He has taught me!!! Once a heretic will always be a heretic that delights to wrest in God's word.

Goo lucK trying to sellTHAT to Jesus at yoyur judgement

You mean "Good Luck" yes? Secret......that term is NOT in my vocabulary. Every good gift and perfect gift is from above.... James 1:17. Lol

To God Be The Glory

 

[Dropship]

I hear the United Kingdom has "Pride marches", is that right?..
There is nothing neutral about anti-Catholic lies, falsehoods and misrepresentations that flood this forum. Verbal missiles. The analogy is fitting.

Yes, most western countries allow sickening GLBT pervert marches, so does Ukraine.
WIKI- "Same-sex sexual activity between consenting adults is legal in Ukraine.
Since the fall of the Soviet Union and Ukraine's independence in 1991, the Ukrainian LGBT community has gradually become more visible and more organized politically, organising several LGBT events in Kyiv, Odesa, Kharkiv, and Kryvyi Rih"
LGBT rights in Ukraine - Wikipedia

Putin's Russia takes a tough stance against perverts, so who's right in God's eyes, Ukraine or Russia?..


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Which of these quotes are a "lie"?
If they're wrong please tell us why..:)-

1- Catholics pray to Jesus's mum and to dead "saints" even though Jesus said- "This is how you should pray- 'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be thy name'", so catholic prayers are like blank cartridges.
2- The catholic hierarchy ban women outright from being priests, perhaps they don't like girls.
3- They have a "confessional box" where any sinner can confess his crimes to a priest and be "forgiven".
4- They believe in 'purgatory' and think that if they find themselves in hell they'll be let out after serving their time, as if hell is fitted with a swing door..

 

[Illuminator]

Here's why it's you who's wrong:

The weekly Sabbath was created at the end of the six days of Creation before sin entered the world when there were no spiritual shadows.....all was light. There were no Passovers, no Unleavened Breads, no meat offerings, drink offerings, no new moons, or holy days, nothing.

Let's stop denying the Catholic church claims to have changed the Sabbath from the 7th day to the 1st day, OK? Read www.rome'schallenge.com where they make as good of arguments as we do for why the change isn't Biblical.

 

[Phoneman777]

WRONG - you're arguing in circles.

I've already proven WHY the Sabbath wan instituted in Ex 16:23-30 - and showed the connectiono to the reality that it became in the Eucharist (John 6:31-35).
YOU keep going BACK to the false idea that it is simply a "memoroial" - which it is NOT.
It is a memorial - and a TYPE.

As I said already, 2 Chronicles 17:27 KJV says when God blesses something (unconditionally) it's "blessed forever" and doesn't require a booster shot ever, not at Sinai, not at Calvary, not at all, ever.

Therefore, when God tells you He "blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it", He's talking about when He blessed the 7th day back in Genesis 2...in Eden...before sin entered the world when there were no spiritual shadows...all was light.

Understand? It's just silly to argue the Sabbath rest wasn't created until Exodus when God plainly tells us the 7th day is the day upon which He rested, blessed, and hallowed it.

 

[Phoneman777]

That ALL depends on what YOU consider "Believe" to be.

"Believining" in Christ for your salvation requires MUCH more than simple intellectual or emotional assent. It requires surrender and obedience.

James 2:19 tells us that even the denoms believe - so just "believing" is NOT enough.
Paul says that this kind of "Faith" is NOT enough - and only LOVE is the greatest virtue (1 Cor. 13:1-13). He declares that faith WORKING through LOVE is ALL that matters.

Jesus describes the greatest expression of "Love" as laying down one's LIFE for ones friends (John 15:13) - and that requires OBEDIENCE.

The blood of Christ IS the only thing that saves - and our COOPERATION with God's grace to believe in this gift is essential.

Do you have an Imprimatur stamped document attesting to this? The Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification says the RCC and Protestant churches agree we are saved "by grace alone, in faith in Christ's saving work..." Thought that sounds very close to what the Bible teaches, it's not at all what it teaches. We're not saved "by grace alone" - we're saved "by grace through faith" alone - colossal difference.

The one says we're saved by grace if we believe in the "saving works" of Jesus, which refers to His meritorious good works which fill the bottomless barrel of merit, not by His blood. Incidentally, the Catholic church teaches Mary's works are more efficacious to produce merit than are Jesus' works, which I find supersonically blasphemous. I know you'll argue that's not the position of the Catholic church, yet I don't find the Catholic church censoring/excommunicating what you might characterized as "rogue" teachers.

 

[Phoneman777]

BoL didn't say that. He said BOTH. You are too hostile to have a reasonable discussion, you would rather fire verbal missiles.

What are you talking about? I was nothing but polite in my question to DB concerning the relationship of the Cross to salvation and to the establishment of the church. Keep these accusations up and you'll go on a permanent vacation to Ignore Island, understand?

 

[Illuminator]

Yes, most western countries allow sickening GLBT pervert marches, so does Ukraine.
WIKI- "Same-sex sexual activity between consenting adults is legal in Ukraine.
Since the fall of the Soviet Union and Ukraine's independence in 1991, the Ukrainian LGBT community has gradually become more visible and more organized politically, organising several LGBT events in Kyiv, Odesa, Kharkiv, and Kryvyi Rih"
LGBT rights in Ukraine - Wikipedia

Putin's Russia takes a tough stance against perverts, so who's right in God's eyes, Ukraine or Russia?..

View attachment 25518
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Russia is right to oppress perverts, wrong in their methods. Ukraine is right to defend itself against a diabolical horde. If they didn't, Ukraine would be annihilated. Your GLBT pervert argument is a red herring to the issue of genocide and war crimes.

Which of these quotes are a "lie"?
If they're wrong please tell us why..:)-

They are all insulting misrepresentations. Your claim to be neutral is a lie. You are not interested in "why" because your "neutral" mind is made up. You can key in any topic in the question box at CatholicAnswers.com and get a variety of easy to read articles, videos and talk shows. But your "neutral" mind won't allow it. Your shot gun tactic proves my point. Trying to tell you "why" is a waste of time because you really don't want to know "why". When you are ready for answers, it will be the doing of the Holy Spirit, not the result of arguing in forums.

 

[Phoneman777]

"Sunday is our Mark of authority. The (catholic) church is above the Bible and this transference of Sabbath observance (to Sunday) is proof of that fact".

"...above the Bible..."

 

[Illuminator]

What are you talking about? I was nothing but polite in my question to DB concerning the relationship of the Cross to salvation and to the establishment of the church. Keep these accusations up and you'll go on a permanent vacation to Ignore Island, understand?

Do you have an Imprimatur stamped document attesting to this? The Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification says the RCC and Protestant churches agree we are saved "by grace alone, in faith in Christ's saving work..." Thought that sounds very close to what the Bible teaches, it's not at all what it teaches. We're not saved "by grace alone" - we're saved "by grace through faith" alone - colossal difference.

The one says we're saved by grace if we believe in the "saving works" of Jesus, which refers to His meritorious good works which fill the bottomless barrel of merit, not by His blood. Incidentally, the Catholic church teaches Mary's works are more efficacious to produce merit than are Jesus' works, which I find supersonically blasphemous. I know you'll argue that's not the position of the Catholic church, yet I don't find the Catholic church censoring/excommunicating what you might characterized as "rogue" teachers.

What are you talking about? I was nothing but polite in my question to DB concerning the relationship of the Cross to salvation and to the establishment of the church. Keep these accusations up and you'll go on a permanent vacation to Ignore Island, understand?

Phoneman:

 

[Illuminator]

"Sunday is our Mark of authority. The (catholic) church is above the Bible and this transference of Sabbath observance (to Sunday) is proof of that fact".

"...above the Bible..."