attacking another denomination are included in this rule.

[Raccoon1010]

No one is ever to ask you to pray for them?
I guess you dont spend much time in the prayer subforum?

Pax et Bonum

I watch a lot of Catholic TV and catch the Catholic Mass daily as a routine for the day to boost my connection with God. The other day I decided to expand my watching on Catholic TV so I tuned into the Rosary show. And I have to say I enjoyed the inter discussion and encouragement, but didn't get a good feeling during the repetitious words of the Hail Mary. And I tried to go along with it and found myself praying to Mary instead of asking her to pray for me. I think that's what it naturally induces in a person. So I watched it but didn't get a good feeling about it like I sometimes get from God.

So I guess what I got out of it is that there was a fine line for me between asking Mary and in fact praying to her. I didn't see the difference there.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

By all means, and we need to start at Hebrews 11:39,40: And these all [OT saints], having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect... Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us... But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and Church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven [NT saints], and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect [OT saints], And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. (Hebrews 11:39,40; 12:1,22-24).

So what do we learn from these verses?

1. God would perfect the OT saints at the same time as He did the NT saints.
2. The OT saints are called "so great a cloud of witnesses".
3. Witnesses by definition are alive, awake, alert, and observant.
4. These are all living saints in Heaven, though they have passed on from this earth.
5. Then we are shown all the actual occupants of the New Jerusalem (which is in Heaven). Thus "the heavenly Jerusalem".
6. The NT saints are called "the general assembly and Church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven" because their citizenship is in Heaven.
7. The OT saints are called "the spirits of just [or justified] men made perfect" because they were all perfected after Pentecost.
8. The very fact that all these saints are in the presence of God and Christ in Heaven means that God is not the God of the dead but of the living.

Thank you for your reply.

No one is yet in heaven.The witnesses are those faithful of the past knowing the words of God were true.
Jesus raised Lazarus from his sleep. He did not bring him from heaven to again occupy perishable flesh.


The reference to those written in heaven is referring to the Lamb's Book of Life that is one of the books in heaven by which we shall be known and/or judged.

''Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. … For David did not ascend into the heavens” Acts 2:29 & 34

''For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell asleep, was buried with his fathers, and saw corruption” Acts 13:36

“So man lies down and does not rise. Till the heavens are no more, they will not awake nor be roused from their sleep” Job 14:12

''And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, some to shame and everlasting contempt” Daniel 12:2

Jesus said,
“This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day” John 6:39-40

Jesus said, “Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation” John 5:28-29

Do We Go to Heaven When We Die?

 

[Philip James]

You can ask the saints on earth to pray for you . BUT we dont pray to the saints on earth

You are contradicting yourself here.

To pray is to 'earnestly ask'

So if we can 'earnestly ask' our brothers and sisters to pray for us, how much more so those who have gone before us and are already made perfect?


Pax et Bonum

 

[Heart2Soul]

Its not on this site .

Oh good.

 

[Enoch111]

So are the angels . but we pray to none of them but to GOD alone in JESUS name .

Correct. As you will have noted, there is an "innumerable company of angels" in Heaven. The issue is not so much about praying to saints and angels as it is about the FACT of them being alive and awake witnesses in Heaven. Many Christians do not even understand this basic truth. Catholics ask the saints to intercede and intervene for them, but that is a separate issue. Non-Catholics pray to the Father, through the Son, and by the Spirit.

 

[Enoch111]

No one is yet in heaven.

FALSE. Even after I have quoted the exact Scriptures to prove that everyone who has passed on is in Heaven, you deny the truth. That is neither smart nor prudent. This is exactly how false doctrines originate. Plain and clear Scriptures are dismissed as lies, and a man-made doctrine is created to change the truth of God into a lie.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

FALSE. Even after I have quoted the exact Scriptures to prove that everyone who has passed on is in Heaven, you deny the truth. That is neither smart nor prudent. This is exactly how false doctrines originate. Plain and clear Scriptures are dismissed as lies, and a man-made doctrine is created to change the truth of God into a lie.

It is how false doctrine begins. You misunderstand a passage you think supports your narrative. And ignore even Jesus telling you in every sense , you're wrong.

Even Revelation informs of this. The judgement of the dead has not yet occurred.

No one is yet in heaven or hell.

Those written in heaven? Isn't telling you the dead are in heaven. Writing is walking around in heaven.

You may wish to read the link I shared.
Jesus, who was holy God made flesh and dwelling among us, knew what he was talking about.

You ignore all scripture in both old and new testaments to sustain your misunderstanding ,one verse you believe tells us the dead in Christ are in heaven.

And ignore all those verses that tell you they are not.

 

[Dropship]

..I have quoted the exact Scriptures to prove that everyone who has passed on is in Heaven..

If that includes Hitler, Saddam, and assorted nonchristians etc, I don't think I want to go..:)

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

If that includes Hitler, Saddam, and assorted nonchristians etc, I don't think I want to go..:)

Indeed. Would make for some curious questions wouldn't it?
John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

 

[Brakelite]

Well if you quote that particular denomination and then attack the teaching- that is not attacking teh church or denomination but a belief.

Totally agree with that. Members of that denomination however often abuse critics of being anti-protestant, or anti-Catholic etc etc, making the criticism personal against the members of the church as opposed to the teachings itself. The actual teachings and any justifiable criticism become buried under an avalanche of debris and detritus that come down on the head of the poster in the form of offended egos and hurt feelings. That's when the mods step in to bring peace and the discussion is closed. Claiming to be personally affronted these days is a highly successful tactic to defuse truth.

 

[Brakelite]

Christianity is certainly about doctrines! If we are not allowed to discuss doctrines then what good is a forum? What's really sad is when mods attack those who they don't agree with, sometimes in private to hide their cowardly attacks, rather than discussing for all to witness.

I have not known that to happen here, full credit to the more liberal and open philosophy of the way this forum is run. I've certainly experienced that elsewhere.

 

[Dropship]

Adolf liked to be seen coming out of church-




But it's debatable whether he was a true christian..:)

GUEST- "Congratulations on becoming Chancellor mein Fuhrer, and what are your plans now?"
ADOLF- "I plan to take a little sightseeing trip"
GUEST- "Oh how nice, anywhere special?"
ADOLF- "Poland, Norway, Holland, Belgium, France, Greece, North Africa, Russia.."

 

[Brakelite]

Praying is our part in a relationship. It doesn't seem prudent to me to claim to have a relationship with Jesus but talk to everyone but. "Depart from Me I never knew you" is not something I ever want to hear. Our reply, "didn't you get the message from Christopher and your mum" won't cut much ice methinks. Who's your relationship with? Why do you think others would have more connection with Jesus than those here who need His presence in their lives every day?

 

[Jack]

I have not known that to happen here, full credit to the more liberal and open philosophy of the way this forum is run. I've certainly experienced that elsewhere.

Me too.

 

[Jack]

If that includes Hitler, Saddam, and assorted nonchristians etc, I don't think I want to go..:)

How about Stalin who supposedly murdered about 90 million? How about the Democrats who got wealthy murdering millions of unborn babies? Gee, I don't think they go to heaven. But I'm sure a few of them got saved.

 

[Enoch111]

If that includes Hitler, Saddam, and assorted nonchristians etc, I don't think I want to go..:)

I certainly did not expect such a silly comment from you. I was specifically discussing "the saints" -- those who are in Christ and have the indwelling Holy Spirit.

 

[BarneyFife]

.
.
"People almost invariably arrive at their beliefs not on the basis of proof but on the basis of what they find attractive."

"Truth is so obscure in these times, and falsehood so established, that, unless we love the truth, we cannot know it."

"Silence is the greatest persecution; never do the saints keep themselves silent."

-Blaise Pascal-
.
.

 

[BarneyFife]

Yall , we cant become like the liberal agenda . If we do we are gonna end up silencing our own mouths .
Stop worrying if folks attack and go after the doctrine we teach . Its gonna happen .
But if we start winining about it all voices that correct and oppose are gonna get shut down in the name of this false love , false tolerance
false unity stuff . My friend i have been screamed at to my face before , and i didnt get all offended and start complaining .
I just prayed later to GOD for that man , in hopes he will repent of his wickedness .
We need to be more concerned for the welfare of brethren and SOUND DOCTRINE than being attacked or name called .
ON this site i have had it very easy . But this aint the case in other places and not in person either .
WE got to BIBLE UP and strap on the armour of the LORD . Cause if folks keep complaining
this place will get turned into a place where biblical folks wont be allowed . Not the correctors .
Stop complaining . IF folks attack your beliefs , THEN make your stand and show them their error .
Did you know i have never once put a person on ignore , NOR ever once reported one person on any site i have ever been .
MY goal is to win them to CHRIST and if they dont hear , well that is on them . REJOICE when you are persecuted .
I mean if we are doing the will of CHRIST and teaching sound doctrine and then we are attacked ,
COUNT IT ALL JOY at least JESUS is being glorified and then pray for the person doing the attacking .
Now i aint saying you cant report folks . But my point is , LETS Not get all upset when folks attack us .
Cause ITS GONNA HAPPEN .

.
.
God has his 7000 who have not bowed the knee to Baal.

You're not the only one who is concerned for souls.

You can quit acting like it any time now.

And I don't take too well to being addressed as a subordinate.

You'll catch more flies...

Just showing you your error.

I know you won't complain now. :)
.
.

 

[Philip James]

I watch a lot of Catholic TV and catch the Catholic Mass daily as a routine for the day to boost my connection with God. The other day I decided to expand my watching on Catholic TV so I tuned into the Rosary show. And I have to say I enjoyed the inter discussion and encouragement, but didn't get a good feeling during the repetitious words of the Hail Mary. And I tried to go along with it and found myself praying to Mary instead of asking her to pray for me. I think that's what it naturally induces in a person. So I watched it but didn't get a good feeling about it like I sometimes get from God.

So I guess what I got out of it is that there was a fine line for me between asking Mary and in fact praying to her. I didn't see the difference there.

Next time you pray the rosary, try concentrating more on the event of the mystery as you pray each decade..

If you dont know what I mean, there are different sets of mysteries to ponder: the joyful mysteries, the sorrowful mysteries and the glorious mysteries

The Mysteries of the Rosary - Prayers - Catholic Online

Pax et Bonum

 

[Lizbeth]

Correcting someone who is in error of God's Truth and His Commandments is something that must be done in love.

If you are exposing
false teachers, prophets, or witnesses then you should be certain they are false. There is a difference between the false servants whose teachings align with the antichrist and denominations who believe in what their church teaches about the Bible.

As you so often point out the RCC...I have met some truly anointed members who attend the Catholic church and they live righteously....so to just say RCC without being specific as to which Catholic Church you are referring to? It is lumping all Christians of the Catholic faith into one big melting pot....
There are as many offshoots of the RCC who are still Catholics just as there are of the Baptist, Pentecostal, Presbyterian....and on and on....and the offshoots have different doctrines than the original church....see what I am getting at?

Now any person who posts anything contrary to God's Word are banned...and I believe the team has done a decent and fair job of dealing with such members. Blasphemy is a lifetime ban. Now don't confuse members of other denominations who have different doctrines and how they interpret scripture with heretics and blasphemers.
And lastly, what purpose are you seeking when correcting someone? Do you truly love them as a brother and desire to see them saved from deception and ignorance? To see them grow more in the Wisdom and Knowledge of His Word?
The Apostles taught us how to correct a brother in love and their example is what we.should follow.

James 5 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹⁹ Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
²⁰ Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

“If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.”
— James 1:26 (KJV)


2 Timothy 2 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
²⁴ And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
²⁵ In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
²⁶ And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

We need to be careful and very discerning of anointings....seductive and deceiving counterfeits abound.

I see Catholic apologists who are routinely posting things contrary to God's word in their efforts to gain converts to their particular religion out of those who are already converted to Christ....and they are not getting banned.

Regardless of how anointed a few individual Catholics may be (or seem to be) the call to "come out of her and be separate lest ye receive of her plagues" is still truth and going forth from the mouth of the Shepherd of our souls. And they are still deceived and in danger if they believe Catholic doctrine.