What Are we Getting Saved From?

[shortangel]

we are saved from sin by Jesus death on the cross & his riseing from the dead, we are saved by earning it :)

 

[Raccoon1010]

"Salvation" is a common topic among professed Christians, but the whole idea of it has been warped and twisted into something that has no bearing on why God created humans to live on this earth in the first place.

If you pull everything together under a "big picture", all of the diverse ideas melt away into nonsense, and a clear and logical picture emerges.

So first of all, why do we need saving?....and what are we getting saved from?

Understanding why God put us here on this earth, is the first place to start getting answers to those questions.
What did he tell the first humans as to their role here?

Genesis 2:4-9....
"This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven. 5 Now no shrub of the field was yet on the earth, and no plant of the field had yet sprouted, for the Lord God had not sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to cultivate the ground. 6 But a mist used to rise from the earth and water the whole surface of the ground. 7 Then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living person. 8 The Lord God planted a garden toward the east, in Eden; and there He placed the man whom He had formed. 9 Out of the ground the Lord God caused every tree to grow that is pleasing to the sight and good for food; the tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil." (NASB)

Read that carefully and tell us why God put mankind on this earth in the first place.....

More to come later....this topic will be addressed in logical stages....always from God's word.

If you study what sin is the answer becomes clear. We are being saved from our selfish nature as children.

 

[shortangel]

what i ment was we cannot earn our salvation, Jesus death & ressurection did :) we are saved by grace through faith

 

[Raccoon1010]

what i ment was we cannot earn our salvation, Jesus death & ressurection did :) we are saved by grace through faith

W can provide works meet for repentance though. To show that we want to be saved.

 

[Aunty Jane]

ha maybe nothing eh

Considering the choices placed before our first parents, their exercise of free will could have led to a very different outcome.

When Eve was deceived into breaking God’s law, Adam could have altered the course of human history by simply refusing to partake of the fruit that his wife had been tricked into stealing. God had placed that tree as his own exclusive property, with no reason at all to violate his command since he had been so generous in providing abundantly for his creatures.......so to steal from one’s Sovereign, was always a capital offence, no matter how small the item was.

When you understand that after their creation and the very simple instructions given, the humans were told that death would only come to them if they disobeyed their God.....so death was not inevitable nor was it natural. It was a consequence/penalty of their own choices. Each one choosing selfishly. So everything God did after they rebelled and refused to obey his commands, was a reaction/response to that choice.

This goes for all of us.....God will respond to our choices as well. He will not force himself on anyone, but makes his commands clear, and waits for those with the right heart motivation to respond to his reasonable restrictions in the correct way. Then he will “draw” us to his truth, conveyed through his precious son. (John 6:44; John 6:65) No one can come to Christ authentically, without an invitation from his Father, who is a reader of hearts, not just an observer of actions.

What was it that the devil suggested to the woman?.......that God’s restrictions were not fair and reasonable, or for their good. He convinced the ‘newby’ that God was holding back something that would benefit them, and the woman was “deceived” but still accountable for her actions. Adam however was not deceived, and made a selfish and deliberate choice to side with his disobedient wife. (1 Timothy 2:14) Satan had plotted to get to the man by dividing his loyalties...and it worked. “Divide and conquer” has been his favourite tactic ever since. Their collective action condemned the whole human race to death. (Romans 5:12) But as long as they lived, the devil would enjoy their worship. They chose him as their ‘god’ and he has been attempting to “blind” their children ever since. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4) Some however would fight to remain obedient even under very difficult circumstances. The Bible is full of their stories and they inspire us to follow their example.

 

[Aunty Jane]

But that was conditional, a smidgen is known but man doesn't know what the full purpose of man was because man chose to walk away from the purpose.

The ‘condition’ God placed on the TKGE was clearly stated, and his human creatures were endowed with intelligence and were perfect in every way......but free will was always going to be difficult.....unless we learned how to drive it in the right way.....it could be either a blessing...or a curse. We know how that turned out because we live with that curse every day, witnessing man’s inhumanity to man, his insatiable greed for wealth and power, and his complete disregard for the earth itself and the sanctity of life that God created. He will hold them accountable, but in the meantime....what about us?

We know from just reading Genesis what God assigned to the humans and what they could have looked forward to if they remained obedient.
Right there in the garden, God prophesied the solution to man’s dilemma, and the demise of the original culprit who led them into sin, (Genesis 3:15) but the meaning of that prophesy was shrouded in mystery until the coming of the promised ‘seed of the woman’.

Revelation 21:2-4 gives us a glimpse of what is in store for the human race under the rulership of God’s Kingdom.....the one Jesus taught us to pray for....

“And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.” (ESV)

The Kingdom of God in the capable hands of His most trusted servant will reverse all the bad consequences of the first rebellion.....undoing all the terrible results, and cleaning up the mess that they left. Then God’s original purpose for mankind and the earth can be restored, with valuable lessons learned by both God’s human and angelic sons with regard to the abuse of free will.

This is how God teaches us with object lessons, which hit us right where we live, and drive home the fact that this is NOT the life God planned for us at the beginning. This is the life that results from disobeying God and we would never want it to be repeated.....nor will it ever have to be since God has a long record of the consequences and results that brought mankind to the brink of extinction, using his God-given intelligence to invent devices that would cause the destruction of the whole earth.

God will never allow that to happen....man’s rage will be counteracted by God’s anger.....
“The nations raged, but your wrath came, and the time for the dead to be judged, and for rewarding your servants, the prophets and saints, and those who fear your name, both small and great, and for destroying the destroyers of the earth.” (Revelation 11:18 ESV)

Not far away now.....as we see again nuclear powered nations threatening one another.....

 

[keithr]

Read that carefully and tell us why God put mankind on this earth in the first place.....

Okay, so why do you think God created the earth, all life on earth, and mankind? I don't believe that God created man just to be gardeners to keep the earth looking good.

 

[Bob Estey]

"Salvation" is a common topic among professed Christians, but the whole idea of it has been warped and twisted into something that has no bearing on why God created humans to live on this earth in the first place.

If you pull everything together under a "big picture", all of the diverse ideas melt away into nonsense, and a clear and logical picture emerges.

So first of all, why do we need saving?....and what are we getting saved from?

Understanding why God put us here on this earth, is the first place to start getting answers to those questions.
What did he tell the first humans as to their role here?

Genesis 2:4-9....
"This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven. 5 Now no shrub of the field was yet on the earth, and no plant of the field had yet sprouted, for the Lord God had not sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to cultivate the ground. 6 But a mist used to rise from the earth and water the whole surface of the ground. 7 Then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living person. 8 The Lord God planted a garden toward the east, in Eden; and there He placed the man whom He had formed. 9 Out of the ground the Lord God caused every tree to grow that is pleasing to the sight and good for food; the tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil." (NASB)

Read that carefully and tell us why God put mankind on this earth in the first place.....

More to come later....this topic will be addressed in logical stages....always from God's word.

I believe we are being saved from the consequences of our sin. I'm not talking about hell, after our lives our finished. I'm talking about the consequences of our sin here on earth.

 

[bbyrd009]

When Eve was deceived into breaking God’s law, Adam could have altered the course of human history by simply refusing to partake of the fruit that his wife had been tricked into stealing

if they were two separate people, ya
but i have come to suspect that that is…stretching an analogy too far? Adam was (suddenly) there with her for a reason imo, the two shall become one, also, so, im finding it more relevant to perceive A&E as me, at least for now, for the last couple years now.

which might be wrong of course, but being as how Adam did not do that…ya

Considering the choices placed before our first parents, their exercise of free will could have led to a very different outcome

could it? i dunno. i suspect not tbh

 

[bbyrd009]

God had placed that tree as his own exclusive property, with no reason at all to violate his command since he had been so generous in providing abundantly for his creatures.......so to steal from one’s Sovereign, was always a capital offence, no matter how small the item was.

When you understand that after their creation and the very simple instructions given, the humans were told that death would only come to them if they disobeyed their God.....so death was not inevitable nor was it natural

i more or less adhered to an ultra-literalist view for a long time, aunty, and i dont blame you for holding it, ok. But at a certain point the evidence just became overwhelming for me, that that was not going to ultimately provide the best understanding.

i say this in response to your “death” treatise, which imo is demonstrably untenable, for procreators at least. I dont think it would be completely impossible, and i might be wrong there too, but it does apparently violate other Scripture that would be pretty hard to reconcile. Regardless, it is for me, now, another belief that paled into insignificance after i considered that an allegory about me might be being told. I ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge, iow. purportedly.

so death was not inevitable nor was it natural

you state this as a fact, aunty; are you sure, or is this your current belief, and you are just using shorthand?

 

[bbyrd009]

No one can come to Christ authentically, without an invitation from his Father, who is a reader of hearts, not just an observer of actions

im 60 aunty, and i was (ritually) saved when i was 14. ok?

 

[bbyrd009]

Adam however was not deceived, and made a selfish and deliberate choice to side with his disobedient wife

yes, ive read the brochure, and fwiw i suggest keeping an open mind there ok
even if that more or less amounts to the same thing anyway i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

Not far away now

still hoping for that kingdom that comes by observation, aunty? You are going to be disappointed imo ok, and this pains me as you seem very earnest, and good hearted. There is no sin in…pretending, for the sake of gaining a different pov, say, that you actually know abs nothing about the Bible, and trying on a diff interp, at least i dont think?

ha but it is fun to suggest to your congregation fathers that you are thinking of doing so lol; talk about those who say they know! yikes! according to most of them you will be swan-diving straight into hell if you do not agree with their interp, of course.

i say seek Christ wherever He may be found

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Okay, so why do you think God created the earth, all life on earth, and mankind? I don't believe that God created man just to be gardeners to keep the earth looking good.

He tells you.
We were destined to be damned by the all father of creation.

What?

The names of those the Father chose,elected, to be saved from sin and damnation, The Lamb's Book of Salvation ,Eternal Life, was written before God created the world.

You ask, ''why do you think God created the earth, all life on earth, and mankind?''

He tells us, all that he predestined, created, is for his glory.
Colossians 1.

God is all things.

Fixed typo

 

[bbyrd009]

what is the diff in knowing and what is it?

 

[Skovand1075]

We are getting saved from the eternal punishment of being destroyed post resurrection.

 

[BeyondET]

The ‘condition’ God placed on the TKGE was clearly stated, and his human creatures were endowed with intelligence and were perfect in every way......but free will was always going to be difficult.....unless we learned how to drive it in the right way.....it could be either a blessing...or a curse. We know how that turned out because we live with that curse every day, witnessing man’s inhumanity to man, his insatiable greed for wealth and power, and his complete disregard for the earth itself and the sanctity of life that God created. He will hold them accountable, but in the meantime....what about us?

We know from just reading Genesis what God assigned to the humans and what they could have looked forward to if they remained obedient.
Right there in the garden, God prophesied the solution to man’s dilemma, and the demise of the original culprit who led them into sin, (Genesis 3:15) but the meaning of that prophesy was shrouded in mystery until the coming of the promised ‘seed of the woman’.

Revelation 21:2-4 gives us a glimpse of what is in store for the human race under the rulership of God’s Kingdom.....the one Jesus taught us to pray for....

“And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.” (ESV)

The Kingdom of God in the capable hands of His most trusted servant will reverse all the bad consequences of the first rebellion.....undoing all the terrible results, and cleaning up the mess that they left. Then God’s original purpose for mankind and the earth can be restored, with valuable lessons learned by both God’s human and angelic sons with regard to the abuse of free will.

This is how God teaches us with object lessons, which hit us right where we live, and drive home the fact that this is NOT the life God planned for us at the beginning. This is the life that results from disobeying God and we would never want it to be repeated.....nor will it ever have to be since God has a long record of the consequences and results that brought mankind to the brink of extinction, using his God-given intelligence to invent devices that would cause the destruction of the whole earth.

God will never allow that to happen....man’s rage will be counteracted by God’s anger.....
“The nations raged, but your wrath came, and the time for the dead to be judged, and for rewarding your servants, the prophets and saints, and those who fear your name, both small and great, and for destroying the destroyers of the earth.” (Revelation 11:18 ESV)

Not far away now.....as we see again nuclear powered nations threatening one another.....

The last verse is saying they destroyed the earth can't be called a destroyer of earth if its not destroyed.

When is the man of lawlessness revealed? exult over all the churches anything of God?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Okay, so why do you think God created the earth, all life on earth, and mankind? I don't believe that God created man just to be gardeners to keep the earth looking good.

If God’s instructions to our first parents are not clear, then we have not read them correctly and are trying to read into them things that are just not there.

We are God’s representatives here on this planet....this small spec in a vast universe, where life as we know it began. God tells us in some detail the order in which it’s preparation took place and the scale of it all.....this was no 6 literal “day” event. The creative “days” were perhaps eons of time because a timeless Being is not constrained by earth time (which is the single rotation of this planet)....and I believe we need to lose the idea that God is some sort of a ‘magician’, waving his wand and speaking things into existence. Yahweh is a *Creator*, who took all the time necessary to accomplish what he set out to do. We have no idea how long God was in company with his angelic creation in the spirit realm before he embarked on material creation, but we do know from scripture that the angels witnessed it all and shouted in applause when God concluded the 6th “day” and declared it “very good”. (Job 38:4-7) Since there is no concluding declaration concerning the 7th day, I believe that we are still in it, witnessing all the things that God has done and is doing, in order to bring his project to its stated conclusion, ironing out all the ‘bugs’ so that it will end as he intended. (Isaiah 55:11)

There is the thousand year reign of God’s kingdom to come, where He will have all the things that humans have done to each other and to the planet itself reversed, bringing everything back to what God created in Eden at the beginning. What God starts, he finishes. His intentions at the beginning never included taking humans to heaven or punishing them in hell....humans have introduced those twisted ideas under the influence of the god they chose...one who can blind them to truth. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4) The truth is, only a chosen few were to be chosen for heaven and for a very good reason....to rule over redeemed mankind and to understand the human condition because of having lived in the flesh, even as Jesus did. (Hebrews 4:15) These are chosen to be “kings and priests” who will rule with Christ in heaven, but over earthly subjects. (Revelation 21:2-4)

We have no idea about God’s plans for the rest of the Universe....or whether he intends to populate the rest of the planets that must exist out there in other galaxies, of which there are billions.....the possibilities are endless.....but what we do know is that the life God planned for us here is going to be restored after ironing out the “bugs” when giving intelligent creatures free will. There is now a written record of all that has been done as a consequence of disobedience to the Creator in all manner of conduct. So it will never have to be repeated.

We have to evaluate what really happened back there in Eden....
Even in the spirit realm, don’t we have to wonder why satan all of a sudden took it upon himself to commit spiritual suicide by seeing an opportunity to gain worship for himself by these new creatures? Before the creation of man, angels were all basically the same, though some had positions of greater responsibility. Satan was a covering cherub in the garden, put there by God to oversee the situation, but instead of carrying out his duty, he began to entertain wrong ideas. (James 1:14-15) The longer he thought about it the more determined he was to gain what he desired. He was right there in the garden plotting the best way to separate the humans from God......he could do that only by getting them to disobey their God. He carefully targeted the woman, hoping to divide Adam’s loyalties so that he would choose to join her rather than to lose her...and the rest, as they say...is history.

What makes you think that there is more to the story?

 

[Aunty Jane]

The last verse is saying they destroyed the earth can't be called a destroyer of earth if its not destroyed.

Read it again.....God will destroy the destroyers the earth...not those who have already done so irreversibly.

“The nations raged, but your wrath came, and the time for the dead to be judged, and for rewarding your servants, the prophets and saints, and those who fear your name, both small and great, and for destroying the destroyers of the earth.” (Revelation 11:18 ESV)

When is the man of lawlessness revealed? exult over all the churches anything of God?

It is important to identify who “the man of lawlessness” is.....because if we do not identify him, the deceiver will portray him as something else entirely....to the masses “he” will not be seen for who he really is. He is not a single person, but a body of wicked men impersonating the role of the apostles, but being far removed from their teachings.....

More about that later....

 

[BeyondET]

Read it again.....God will destroy the destroyers the earth...not those who have already done so irreversibly.

“The nations raged, but your wrath came, and the time for the dead to be judged, and for rewarding your servants, the prophets and saints, and those who fear your name, both small and great, and for destroying the destroyers of the earth.” (Revelation 11:18 ESV)


It is important to identify who “the man of lawlessness” is.....because if we do not identify him, the deceiver will portray him as something else entirely....to the masses “he” will not be seen for who he really is. He is not a single person, but a body of wicked men impersonating the role of the apostles, but being far removed from their teachings.....

More about that later....

It does say destroyers of the earth, who ever they are, they will do alot of damage to surface of the earth. there's not enough nukes to effect its core, magnetic field etc.

The notion of a group could be plausible