Once OSAS Always OSAS

[Eternally Grateful]

I hope I can summarise what you are saying.
Man is in sin without committing sin, so being human is to be in sin.
Selfish means sin.

This is wrong, this is not what I said. or even what I hinted at.

 

[marks]

This is an outright flat out lie my friend. You just committed a sin and broke the command thou shalt not bare false witness.. Hence you are a hypocrite.. demanding other people what you yourself do not do.

Everyone reveals themselves in their words, but not everyone is willing to look at themself and admit the truth.

One way people often use to avoid looking at them self is to keep ranting about others.

Much love!

 

[marks]

.
No, I mean what people like to epithetically refer to as "OSAS" around here—the idea that once you say the sinner's prayer you are irrevocably saved—of course, for some, with the caveat that you had to be sincere when you said it—which turns "eternal security" into "righteousness by sincerity," which actually affords no assurance at all, since it has many people doubting their salvation and "being saved" over and over again, just in case they weren't really sincere the last time they were "saved."

What I mean when I talk about OSAS is that when we believe in Jesus, and receive Him to ourselves, that God then justifies us - that is to render us righteous - both judicially, that is, by the forgiveness of sins, and practically, that is, by virtue of a new creation. When He does these, they are not undone.

This has nothing to do with someone's perceptions of sincerity, it has to do with the working of God.

Much love!

 

[marks]

And it has been shown, that when the OSAS knives come out to kill the messenger, they NEVER actually dispute what is being said.

You actually made me laugh out loud. That takes a lot of doing!

:)

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Yes, the unbelievers. But your faith alone doesn’t absolve you of continuing in God’s GOODNESS. So don’t continue in the EVILNESS of the Devil.

“Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:22)

Your trust IS the thing that keeps you from falling into unbelief as they did.

 

[marks]

But by declaring this they are saying OSAS is meaningless, because salvation is only real if it is real in someones life.
So it is not an absolute based on a faith declaration, but only when this flows through to their life.

Romans 8:14-17 KJV
14) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15) For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16) The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17) And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Do you know this witness within yourself? Does the Holy Spirit testify with your spirit that you are the child of God?

Much love!

 

[marks]

To be in God's hand means also that if we should fall he will guide us back to him. He chastises those he loves. And I think that is the point perhaps.

To say that you may be God's child, and yet that you may in the future cease to be His child, is a denial of the truth of Hebrews 12.

Hebrews 12:5-13 KJV
5) And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6) For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7) If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8) But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9) Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10) For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11) Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
12) Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
13) And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.

According to this passage, God will chasten all His children, and His chastening will be effective.

So where is the place for someone who is God's child to then be lost?

That's only if you deny the truthfulness of this passage.

Much love!

 

[marks]

How would you describe the cause of sin in man?
And how would you say we are going to be perfect with Christ on the new earth?

Our flesh is corrupt and dead in sin.

He will change our vile body to be like His glorious body. The corruptible puts on incorruptibility.

Much love!

 

[Behold]

By the way, I also don’t understand the phrase of trusting in His finished work.

The finished work of Jesus, is the Cross.
He completed his reason to be here, on the Cross.
This is why He said from the Cross, just before He died..>"It is finished"......In other words, i have completed the sacrifice for the redemption of the sin of the world.

So, when we trust in THAT work that Jesus finished for us, we are Trusting in Christ to save us.
The faith we place in Him, God accepts to accept us.
"faith is counted as righteousness". The born again have been "Justified by Faith".

 

[marks]

I think we need to sit down and discover what sin is. Sin or more than just committing adulty. We have sinned LONG before we commited the act.

I think more importantly we need to learn what "justification" and "regeneration" are. What "reconciliation" is.

Learning what these really mean will dispell any idea that having been saved through faith in Christ, that we may yet be lost.

Much love!

 

[marks]

By the way, I also don’t understand the phrase of trusting in His finished work. He is still working in me.

The work Jesus finished was the work to reconcile us to God. He works in us to renew us so we will be fruitful, but there is no more work to do that will make us right with God, or keep us right with God. That was done once for all by Christ's death on the cross.

Much love!

 

[WalkInLight]

lol..

I do not know anyone like this.

well wait. yes I do

people who claim to be sinless and refuse to acknowledge their own sin.

I was thinking about you suggesting you do not know anyone caught in their emotional background.
I know hundreds of people like this and was once one myself.

Part of therapy ideas that help people, is we do not realise the emotional assumptions and reactions we have
built up, until we start talking about them, and they suddenly appear a lot stronger than we realised.

All my children have had therapy, and found it very helpful dealing with lifes emotional issues.
I have had my own therapy approach, and found how it is surprising how much of who we are is hidden from ourselves.
Jesus talks about our worries, our joys, our hopes and dreams. He lays out how we should regard life, and how
he provides peace and joy as a support for us, throughout life, good and bad.

Some might say this has nothing to do with salvation, changing who we are and how we approach each day.
I would say it has everything to do with walking with Jesus and having treasure in heaven, if we believe it.

Clearly this is not something you have touched on, as you do not recognise it in yourself or others.

God bless you

 

[WalkInLight]

I think more importantly we need to learn what "justification" and "regeneration" are. What "reconciliation" is.

Learning what these really mean will dispell any idea that having been saved through faith in Christ, that we may yet be lost.

Much love!

Is learning facts a life transforming experience, or does it answer fears and worries or just a nice to know?
I think believers need to learn what justification is so they can boldly pray to the Lord and know in faith He will answer.

Esther went before the King, and if he did not extend his rod, she would die. Quite a risk.
We come before the King of Kings, and its easy to think why bother, nothing will change, why should the Lord listen to me?

Part of the power of intercessory prayer, is God cares about outcomes and His people, and He wants to encourage His people
even in the small things. I have seen our house group grow in faith and love simply because we pray for one another, and
the issues that often crop up, family members passing away, job crises, family members very upset or in trauma, friends
very desperate. One unbeliever could not believe that after we prayed, a situation calmed down and good things happened.
Life is in these small things, and our fellowship with one another is the trust not to upset and hurt one another, but carry
each others burdens. But that is difficult if the trust and love are not there or being built up.

God bless you

 

[BarneyFife]

Trust in Jesus does lead to doing what He said. But we go from to trust to trust (faith to faith.) No baby is born and then never soils themselves. We soil ourselves and struggle with sin in us and not trusting some of what He has said and promised. Our trust grows. That does lead to doing what He said. From start to finish, it is all through our trust. We are in a race of trust. It’s not a race of purifying ourselves. Its not a race of getting our theology exact. It’s a race to trust more and more fully and to stumble less in our trust. Anything good God has for us comes through trusting Him, not through our hard efforts in our own strength. It’s through trusting Him and putting no confidence in our own working.

By the way, I also don’t understand the phrase of trusting in His finished work. He is still working in me.

Your trust IS the thing that keeps you from falling into unbelief as they did.

.
.
Could it be possible to emphasize 'trust' to the detriment of grace?

(Not that it isn't Christ Whose grace is sufficient to effect trust in us.)

Just a thought. :)
.
.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

.
.
Could it be possible to emphasize 'trust' to the detriment of grace?

(Not that it isn't Christ Whose grace is sufficient to effect trust in us.)

Just a thought. :)
.
.

hmm…I don’t see that happening, honestly. It is by His grace, through trust.

 

[Wynona]

Trust in Jesus does lead to doing what He said.

Amen.

We are in a race of trust. It’s not a race of purifying ourselves.

This does not make sense. We run in races, not trust that we are already at the finish line.

Consider Hebrews 12:1
Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,

Anything good God has for us comes through trusting Him, not through our hard efforts in our own strength. It’s through trusting Him and putting no confidence in our own working.

Hebrews 10:35 says Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward.

Babies are helpless in the beginning. God did everything for us in the beginning. He gave us grace to be reborn spiritually But we are to grow up and discern right from wrong.

Hebrews 5:12-14

12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. 13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. 14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.


We need not be helpless babies forever. We are to grow and put on the whole armor of God. To grow up and run. To fight. To be soldiers.

 

[Wynona]

To say that you may be God's child, and yet that you may in the future cease to be His child, is a denial of the truth of Hebrews 12.

Hebrews 12:5-13 KJV
5) And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6) For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7) If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8) But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9) Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10) For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11) Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
12) Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
13) And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.

According to this passage, God will chasten all His children, and His chastening will be effective.

So where is the place for someone who is God's child to then be lost?

That's only if you deny the truthfulness of this passage.

Much love!

Thanks for using Scripture.
Let's keep going in the text.

Hebrews 12: 14-17
14 Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:

15 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled;

16 lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright.

17 For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought it diligently with tears.

A child can forfeit their inheritance like Esau. We can fall short of the grace of God.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

This does not make sense.

This does not make sense. We run in races, not trust that we are already at the finish line.

I would think to say we are in a race would necessarily mean we had not finished the race…
If we continue to trust Him and grow in that trust, are we at risk of not finishing? Or is your fear that our trust might not grow?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Amen.




This does not make sense. We run in races, not trust that we are already at the finish line.

Consider Hebrews 12:1
Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,




Hebrews 10:35 says Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward.

Babies are helpless in the beginning. God did everything for us in the beginning. He gave us grace to be reborn spiritually But we are to grow up and discern right from wrong.

Hebrews 5:12-14

12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. 13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. 14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.


We need not be helpless babies forever. We are to grow and put on the whole armor of God. To grow up and run. To fight. To be soldiers.

Amen, as far as sanctification goes. you got it.

as for justification. We can run and run until we die. we will fall short.

Thats why justification is of grace through faith, a gift of God. not of works.

 

[marks]

A child can forfeit their inheritance like Esau. We can fall short of the grace of God.

But that would mean God is not able/willing to chasten us, or that His chastening doesn't work, which denies the truthfulness of the preceding verses.

We have to learn to understand the Bible without negating parts.

Much love!